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Topic: Primedice.com | Since 2013 | Longest Running Crypto Casino | 113 BTC Jackpot! - page 1630. (Read 1989496 times)

hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
So how does "PrimeDice" make itself able to use "Provably Fair"

this isn't sour grapes btw. I've lost 10BTC+ as this thread knows  Tongue
I could use some of those 10BTC to pay up for my car deposit lol

no seriously i would do that tho  Tongue
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Quite Frankly had I have known that I would not have bet on PrimeDice.

I would have just stuck to coinroll.it

I'm still waiting on someone with more knowledge to explain how CoinRoll's use of nonces make it impossible for the server to know what the next roll is going to be.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 501
Quite Frankly had I have known that I would not have bet on PrimeDice.

I would have just stuck to coinroll.it
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
I still think the easiest way to do this would to be simply allowing the user to choose a client seed AFTER being assigned a server seed. That also allows simple minds (Like myself heh) the ability to easily understand & comprehend the concept. The whole JS assigning a client seed transcends me lol
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 501
So how does "PrimeDice" make itself able to use "Provably Fair"

this isn't sour grapes btw. I've lost 10BTC+ as this thread knows  Tongue
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
That line won't make it any more "provably" fair than it is now: all seeds can potentially be manipulated internally by the server (or the dice outcome can be totally indipendent from any seed for that matter). You can never know for sure what code is running internally, there's always trust involved to some extent.

Not really. That line will make it provably fair if it's on the client, and you can prove if the roll was not determined using your client seed + server seed. Hence the provable prat.

On the client it'll be exploitable by the user (hard to do but the risk is there).

Huh? You can change your client seed now.

The client cannot exploit it, he does not know the server seed (only the hash of it).

See this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/a-guide-to-how-provably-fair-works-161236

Provably fair means:

1. Player can directly influence the results, but not know the end result.
2. Casino can directly influence the results, but not know the end result.

3. Player can prove the casino did not influence the result AFTER knowing the end result
4. Casino can prove the player did not influence the result AFTER knowing the end result

Currently, 3 is not true for PrimeDice.com as PrimeDice knows what each roll would be assuming default client seed. Making the default client seed generated by the client (rather than the server) would make it provably fair.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1006
Crypto entrepreneur and consultant
That line won't make it any more "provably" fair than it is now: all seeds can potentially be manipulated internally by the server (or the dice outcome can be totally indipendent from any seed for that matter). You can never know for sure what code is running internally, there's always trust involved to some extent.

Not really. That line will make it provably fair if it's on the client, and you can prove if the roll was not determined using your client seed + server seed. Hence the provable prat.

On the client it'll be exploitable by the user (hard to do but the risk is there). (explained thx)
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
That line won't make it any more "provably" fair than it is now: all seeds can potentially be manipulated internally by the server (or the dice outcome can be totally indipendent from any seed for that matter). You can never know for sure what code is running internally, there's always trust involved to some extent.

Not really. That line will make it provably fair if it's on the client, and you can prove if the roll was not determined using your client seed + server seed. Hence the provable prat.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
To make it really provably fair.

But wouldn't the server still know the client seed beforehand? I'd think you would have to allow the user/client to be the one to enter it?

No.

The seed would be determined by the client using client JS. The server will not know.

This is how SatoshiDICE, Bitzino works. The player supplies a TXID (fun fact: TXIDs are just hashes, and are pretty much random), or the client JS generates a random seed.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1006
Crypto entrepreneur and consultant
That line won't make it any more "provably" fair than it is now: all seeds can potentially be manipulated internally by the server (or the dice outcome can be totally indipendent from any seed for that matter). You can never know for sure what code is running internally, there's always trust involved to some extent. (though casinò owner can't predict when a customer will withdraw, so even if it want's to manipulate rolls  in a non obvious way to profit it'll be tricky). (explained thx)
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Another 9 losses out of 10.

I'm beginning to think PrimeDice has it in for me.  Undecided

Code:
1 minute ago 50.5 2 0.30000000 Lose 48.33
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.21915206 Lose 44.71
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Win 64.61
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 45.85
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 23.78
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 5.85
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 32.74
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 40.24
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 46.72
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 36.38
this is why i preferred with coinroll due to this reason

prepared server-roll seed = doom

wait, what, PREPARED?

It's PRE_ROLLED?

are you fucking joking me?

I've lost over 10BTC on this site and it's not mentioned anywhere it's pre rolled?!
i wouldn't say its 'PRE-ROLLED' to be exact, but this is what bugs me a bit

Quote
Server seed for next roll:
ee69b2a8d6dec664ee0d1fc7e

I'll stick to coinroll for now. hmac_sha512(secret, lastdeposittxid:nonce) seems more legit

Correct me if I'm wrong, but coinroll knows the secret, knows the last deposit ID, what's stopping them from assigning a nonce that gives them a win? (Shoot me down if I'm missing a vital concept)
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
To make it really provably fair.

But wouldn't the server still know the client seed beforehand? I'd think you would have to allow the user/client to be the one to enter it?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Another 9 losses out of 10.

I'm beginning to think PrimeDice has it in for me.  Undecided

Code:
1 minute ago	50.5	2	0.30000000	Lose	48.33
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.21915206 Lose 44.71
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Win 64.61
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 45.85
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 23.78
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 5.85
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 32.74
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 40.24
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 46.72
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 36.38
this is why i preferred with coinroll due to this reason

prepared server-roll seed = doom

wait, what, PREPARED?

It's PRE_ROLLED?

are you fucking joking me?

I've lost over 10BTC on this site and it's not mentioned anywhere it's pre rolled?!
i wouldn't say its 'PRE-ROLLED' to be exact, but this is what bugs me a bit

Quote
Server seed for next roll:
ee69b2a8d6dec664ee0d1fc7e

I'll stick to coinroll for now. hmac_sha512(secret, lastdeposittxid:nonce) seems more legit
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 501
To make it really provably fair.
It seems to me I have a lost a considerable amount of coin to a game which appears to be pre-determined.

 Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

That's shocking.

I shall not use PrimeDice.com again
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
To make it really provably fair.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 501
I use different addresses each time so I don't have a list of them all  Undecided

I withdraw to my coinlenders.com account so that changes every deposit.

this series of rolls was under:

https://primedice.com/bets.php?user=fcfeb752748cd29521e174ef53147193&limit=200
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Currently, the server knows the result if the user does not change the client seed. As something like 99% of users don't even know you can do that, this game is not provably fair. Not saying that it's cheating, but it's not provably fair.

It would literally take 1 line of code. Not securely random, but random enough as the client seed:

var clientSeed = Math.random();

1 line of code to fix or to cheat?
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
Currently, the server knows the result if the user does not change the client seed. As something like 99% of users don't even know you can do that, this game is not provably fair. Not saying that it's cheating, but it's not provably fair.

It would literally take 1 line of code. Not securely random, but random enough as the client seed:

var clientSeed = Math.random();
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Another 9 losses out of 10.

I'm beginning to think PrimeDice has it in for me.  Undecided

Code:
1 minute ago	50.5	2	0.30000000	Lose	48.33
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.21915206 Lose 44.71
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Win 64.61
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 45.85
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 23.78
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 5.85
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 32.74
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 40.24
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 46.72
2 minutes ago 50.5 2 0.10000000 Lose 36.38
this is why i preferred with coinroll due to this reason

prepared server-roll seed = doom

wait, what, PREPARED?

It's PRE_ROLLED?

are you fucking joking me?

I've lost over 10BTC on this site and it's not mentioned anywhere it's pre rolled?!

Bigbitz, what's your PrimeDice name? I wanna see this lol
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1006
Crypto entrepreneur and consultant
this is why i preferred with coinroll due to this reason

prepared server-roll seed = doom

I've seen some 14-15 losses streaks with the 50% game at coinroll, as I mentioned before (I mean 15 losses in a row, without any wins in between), it's totally normal over a large number of bets (can go even worse).
(thx God my strat/instincts/luck worked till now at avoiding betting on those streaks Grin Except 1 time but I lost little and recovered soon).
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