Topic: Proof of massive fraudulent trading activity and how it has affected the price (Read 4409 times)

Maybe you are right but denying the price impact of buying nearly 650K BTC in three months is nonsence. That's quite a massice buyer pressure.

A very good point:
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http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26is61/the_simplest_explanation_is_usually_the_right_one/

I'm a little surprised that so many people are jumping straight to conspiracy theories in the last 48 hours following the "Willy Report". It especially surprises me because Willy follows the exact same patterns that so many people here have theorized would be done by "whales".

Imagine you are a high value trader or company. You want to enter bitcoin or increase your position. Do you really think you would simply open up a regular trading account on MtGox, put millions of dollars into your web account, and start making million dollar trades? Absolutely no way. I've worked for two large Wall Street banks, and I can tell you flat out that high value clients have access to products and services that "normal" people do not. High value clients have dedicated staff to service them, they get taken out to dinners and events, they have exceptions done for them, they simply operate outside of the normal world that you and I live in.

Willy didn't pay fees or fiat because it operated outside the purview of what a normal trader would have to do. High value clients would have direct relationships with MtGox, and would likely have special fee structure in place that they would pay to MtGox separately and at a different time than trades. Willy didn't back up trades with fiat because fiat was likely wired to MtGox separately, in bulk.
Willy only bought because these high value clients weren't looking to really "trade". They were looking to enter the market, and likely couldn't find enough early adopters off-market to facilitate their needs. So, they had to go on-market. Second Market has publicly stated that they started having issues finding off-market individuals to buy from. What then? Just stop buying? Absolutely not. They instead needed to start coming on-market. However, you can't simply start making buy orders for several millions dollars. So instead, MtGox would offer an automated API that was directly connected to their servers (just like Mark said) and could make small buys at frequent intervals so as to try to not influence the market too much and cause the price to go skyrocketing.

Willy had "??" in data fields because Willy likely facilitated several different clients at once. There is no grand conspiracy there.

Again, I'm surprised that people aren't coming to these simple conclusions, especially since this is exactly how all of us have assumed "whales" work. What we're seeing in Willy is exactly what we expected to see in whales.

Also, does anyone really think that Willy, a bot that was a small percentage of MtGox's volume, could really single-handedly incite an entire bubble when there were at least 2 or 3 other similarly sized exchanges? The truth is that Willy was just one form of high value clients entering the market on one exchange. Other exchanges likely have their own forms of "Willies" that contributed to the bubble just like it did on MtGox. And trust me, those "Willies" are no more conspiratorial than this MtGox Willy is.

It's not like he made 4 separate posts breaking up my own post into 4 dis-coherent segments and contributing nothing intellectually to my remarks whatsoever.

Yes slightly mad, yes mildly butthurt and I'm possibly having my jimmies rustled.

i dont think this willy story caused the price to spike.

if the bot buys for real there must be a seller and wily owner had to pay them out in fiat. like a real trade.

if the bot buy not for real than the rate of (real) buyer and seller remains the same.

the report may be true about the activity of the bot but it plays up his impact very much. there maybe was a psychological impact, but this was rather little.

Also, the Chinese exchanges don't have the ID requirements of others.

Something extremely shady is brewing on Chinese exchanges that will make Mt.Gox look mild in comparison.

A week or two ago I found a Chinese article that (through Google Translate) seemed to say that the Chinese exchanges made money from (1) interest on leveraged trading, (2) trading on insider information (e.g. about bank closures) and (3) high-frequency trading; with (2) and (3) being of course against their own clients, who were not happy once they started noticing that.

(Unfortunately I lost the link to the article, so feel free to doubt my memory and understanding.)

If true, those complaints (channeled through some consumer protection agency) may have motivated in part the "five exchanges's" agreement of early May; which may have caused the end of the Feb-Apr downtrend and the recent rally.

I bet some variant of this Gox scam is still happening on Huobi or OKCoin. All the insanely big buys that pump the market globally seem to happen over there. What kind of rational person would have millions on Chinese exchanges that are in regulation violations? I will probably get back to this post once Huobi or OKCoin are exposed for continuing the Gox ponzi scheme.