Proof of massive fraudulent trading activity and how it has affected the price - page 3.

exocytosis

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Quote from: chopstick on May 25, 2014, 03:03:58 PM

I guess Mark thought he could get away with it.

And he did get away with it.
Other exchange owners, upon noticing this, will surely be quite tempted to pull off a similar crime, no?
And we all know what that will do to the BTC price and real world adoption. The media will have a field day, again. Thus, the Average Joes will stay far away from anything Bitcoin-related.

bluemeanie1

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Quote from: Elokane link=topic=624877.msgt'6936577#msg6936577 date=1401050710

The interesting question here is what percentage this fake money accounted for out of the fiat flow into the Bitcoin market. We're talking about ~half a billion fake dollars that Gox printed - how much real money entered the game during the latest price increase?

have you ever played the game 'Musical Chairs'? It's very similar, and they know when the music is going to stop.

-bm

Elokane

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The interesting question here is what percentage this fake money accounted for out of the fiat flow into the Bitcoin market. We're talking about ~half a billion fake dollars that Gox printed - how much real money entered the game during the latest price increase?

S4VV4S

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on May 25, 2014, 03:30:16 PM

Quote from: Jcw188 on May 25, 2014, 03:03:51 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

2) I think Willie accelerated and pushed the envelope higher than it otherwise should have been, but remember, the other exchanges did naturally achieve these prices on their own.

How can you say other exchanges naturally achieved those prices on their own?

Agreed someone can't say that. When one exchange pushes price up or down its natural the others follow to a certain extent because of the web trade possibilities. Except when gox was crashing but that's because no one could get fiat out.

Imagine, if you will, for it's a stretch, somebody operating said minor exchanges to benefit due to the contrived arbitrage opportunities. No wonder Sunlot wanted to get their hands on Mr Gox ASAP.

Maybe the guys at Sunlot (Brock Pierce and his hacker friends from back at IGE) had something to do about the whole incident so they had the funds (missing BTC) to make up with the existing clients and WOW, they run the worlds biggest BTC exchange!!!!!

Just a stupid "theory" here....

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: Jcw188 on May 25, 2014, 03:03:51 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

2) I think Willie accelerated and pushed the envelope higher than it otherwise should have been, but remember, the other exchanges did naturally achieve these prices on their own.

How can you say other exchanges naturally achieved those prices on their own?

Agreed someone can't say that. When one exchange pushes price up or down its natural the others follow to a certain extent because of the web trade possibilities. Except when gox was crashing but that's because no one could get fiat out.

Imagine, if you will, for it's a stretch, somebody operating said minor exchanges to benefit due to the contrived arbitrage opportunities. No wonder Sunlot wanted to get their hands on Mr Gox ASAP.

S4VV4S

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Mark is dumb.

But he is not that dumb.
Any hacker knows how to hide their tracks.
We know that, why shouldn't Mark?

So he wouldn't be stupid enough to leave his tracks behind, especially when your in this kind of business where security is your No. 1 concern.

I am pretty much convinced that Mark has been "played".

And unfortunately a lot of you lost a lot of cash in the process.

That is just my opinion.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Reading the article now, of which I see (via a search) that the author forgot to mention User # 44557 (44557,ttux,[email protected],$1$zRJRdGL.$VFrVkrM.g/DPp9A6eQH5D.) of that first Mt Gox dump, of which I just easily connected BTCINVEST.ORG to.

jbrnt

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Staggering work from the writer. Thanks to OP for posting.

The Willy Report had well laid out arguments with supporting evidence. The total traded volume of each userid summed to exactly $2500000 is concrete evidence of foul play. Showing Willy being immune to network downtime is genius! It has to be an inside job!

If what this report suggests is true, the price peaks we had from previous bubbles were fabricated. Then how much is a bitcoin really worth?

bluemeanie1

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bluemeanie

eventually, someone is left holding the bag. -bm

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Quote from: DonnyMontana on May 25, 2014, 03:04:19 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

2) I think Willie accelerated and pushed the envelope higher than it otherwise should have been, but remember, the other exchanges did naturally achieve these prices on their own. Bitstamp and BTCe were both over $1000 and China actually outpaced Mt.Gox during the November bubble. Think of it like them starting a fire, they provided the kickstarter and everyone else brought the jet fuel.

The exchanges are all going to be very close to each other in price (assuming of course you can get money in/out of each). Anything anything of them does to force the price up or down, is going to be mirrored in every other exchange whether they like it or not

to a degree, but the prices need to reflect real demand. Eventually this sort of activity results in a collapse. In the meanwhile the market is characterized by speculators cheering the price, which is precisely what we see with BTC.

-bm

DonnyMontana

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Quote from: ?? on ??

2) I think Willie accelerated and pushed the envelope higher than it otherwise should have been, but remember, the other exchanges did naturally achieve these prices on their own. Bitstamp and BTCe were both over $1000 and China actually outpaced Mt.Gox during the November bubble. Think of it like them starting a fire, they provided the kickstarter and everyone else brought the jet fuel.

The exchanges are all going to be very close to each other in price (assuming of course you can get money in/out of each). Anything anything of them does to force the price up or down, is going to be mirrored in every other exchange whether they like it or not

bluemeanie1

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Quote from: ?? on ??

2) I think Willie accelerated and pushed the envelope higher than it otherwise should have been, but remember, the other exchanges did naturally achieve these prices on their own. Bitstamp and BTCe were both over $1000 and China actually outpaced Mt.Gox during the November bubble. Think of it like them starting a fire, they provided the kickstarter and everyone else brought the jet fuel.

If Gox fraudulently inflated the price to $1000 then of course the other ones were going to be dragged up alongside it. If they didn't, there would be huge arbitrage opportunities of buying coins everywhere else and selling them on Gox.

the disparity in prices between various exchanges has been pointed out many times, and it's one typical indicator of market rigging.

-bm

chopstick

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Mt Gox was 99.9% an inside job, most likely perpetrated by Mark Karpeles. He was at a minimum, majorly involved in some way.

From the blatant lies about transaction malleability, always trying to shift blame to something else, never accepting responsibility for anything.

I guess Mark thought he could get away with it. 570k bitcoins that he just straight stole from all of his customers...that represents an unbelievable amount of untold greed.. and extreme sociopathic tendencies.

It's fucking insane.

Let us hope there can be justice.

But in this world that is run by Greed..... I doubt it.

Jcw188

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Quote from: ?? on ??

2) I think Willie accelerated and pushed the envelope higher than it otherwise should have been, but remember, the other exchanges did naturally achieve these prices on their own.

How can you say other exchanges naturally achieved those prices on their own?

Agreed someone can't say that. When one exchange pushes price up or down its natural the others follow to a certain extent because of the web trade possibilities. Except when gox was crashing but that's because no one could get fiat out.

Jcw188

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This is a little off topic but I have first hand seen price manipulated on smaller exchanges. I have no idea how they did it but I would see orders at the top of the list to be filled which were way under the last trade price. I told the admins of the sites and they acted like they had no idea and fixed the problem but it doesn't instill confidence if someone like me needs to tell them.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: ?? on ??

What are your thoughts on this in regards to the current price post-Gox? Do you agree?

Also, let me leave you with a tidbit. Instead of measuring the distances between the peaks... measure the distance between the peak and when the market finishes it's reversal and starts heading up again (e.g like this past month when we switched from bear to bull market) and tell me what you find. I think it's even more alarmingly consistent across the price since day 1.

"I see a pattern here!"

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: hilariousandco on May 25, 2014, 02:47:19 PM

Quote from: haploid23 on May 25, 2014, 02:33:04 PM

Bravo to the author of this article. Very convincing indeed, but I do not have the time to go through the same analysis that the author went through, so I'll just take his word for what it is.

Assuming this to be 100% correct, then how is it still free market when you don't know if other large exchanges like btc-china, bitstamp, or btc-e are doing the same thing? The only way the mtgox order book was analyzed was because the database was leaked. You can't expect other exchanges to conveniently leak their database for you to verify.

There have been several allegations of price fixing and fraudulent transactions on some of the big exchanges. It's even more prevelant on some of the smaller ones that deal with all these crappy alts that are pumped and dumped.

Especially when you consider the fact that some of them exchanges and alt coins operate under one roof, Bitropolis, overseen by none other than Bitcoin's Boy Toy, Brock Pierce.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: ?? on ??

2) The idea that Willy changed / manipulated the market price upward is definitely apparent. The price has run from the single to double digits into the triple and quadruple digits during Willy's tenure at Gox. However, in the ~4 months since Willy's departure from the market, in a post-Gox market the price has readily sustained a level that was ~50x - 100x higher than where the market price began before the price was being so viciously manipulated.

In the end, to be honest, it might have actually been the best thing that could have happened because at the expense of half a billion (in current value) of peoples money we might never have breached $32 again, or it might have taken years longer.

Fortunately, for us, we now have all them mom-and-pop B & M's - worldwide - accepting bitcoins to maintain, then further increase the exchange rate to da moon thanks to the velocity of money, read Bitcoin. Let that sink in for a sec before you recheck a map to see where the nearest outfit that accepts bitcoins is located in your neck of the woods.

bluemeanie1

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Quote from: _biO_ on May 25, 2014, 01:54:01 PM

http://willyreport.wordpress.com/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26g46e/the_willy_report_proof_of_massive_fraudulent/

maybe it's happening in more than one exchange.

perhaps even someone had insider knowledge of this, perhaps she was operating one of these exchanges, and threatened to publicize this information?

-bm

hilariousandco

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Quote from: haploid23 on May 25, 2014, 02:33:04 PM

Bravo to the author of this article. Very convincing indeed, but I do not have the time to go through the same analysis that the author went through, so I'll just take his word for what it is.

Assuming this to be 100% correct, then how is it still free market when you don't know if other large exchanges like btc-china, bitstamp, or btc-e are doing the same thing? The only way the mtgox order book was analyzed was because the database was leaked. You can't expect other exchanges to conveniently leak their database for you to verify.

There have been several allegations of price fixing and fraudulent transactions on some of the big exchanges. It's even more prevelant on some of the smaller ones that deal with all these crappy alts that are pumped and dumped.

Topic: Proof of massive fraudulent trading activity and how it has affected the price - page 3. (Read 4409 times)