I just posted a comment to the Willy Report page on Wordpress:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6938092
Topic: Proof of massive fraudulent trading activity and how it has affected the price - page 2. (Read 4397 times)
May 25, 2014, 06:32:44 PM
May 25, 2014, 06:27:49 PM
While bitcoin itself is not a scam, the market is a complete scam. Unfortunately the people who took the leadership of it are scammers.
I would never advise anyone to buy bitcoins, because i know the price is a fake bubble, a ponzi-like scam. While the scammers have been successful in keeping it going on, at some point the market will turn to reality and people may lose everything.
It is relatively easy simulate bitcoin value in non fradulent market circumstances, and it points to a very small value. Hopefully i will have the time to write an article to prove this.
I would never advise anyone to buy bitcoins, because i know the price is a fake bubble, a ponzi-like scam. While the scammers have been successful in keeping it going on, at some point the market will turn to reality and people may lose everything.
It is relatively easy simulate bitcoin value in non fradulent market circumstances, and it points to a very small value. Hopefully i will have the time to write an article to prove this.
May 25, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
It seems as though the Goxxing will never end!
May 25, 2014, 06:09:59 PM
I think there's definitely price manipulation going on, like, on this thread.
May 25, 2014, 05:59:50 PM
i dont think this willy story caused the price to spike.
if the bot buys for real there must be a seller and wily owner had to pay them out in fiat. like a real trade.
if the bot buy not for real than the rate of (real) buyer and seller remains the same.
the report may be true about the activity of the bot but it plays up his impact very much. there maybe was a psychological impact, but this was rather little.
if the bot buys for real there must be a seller and wily owner had to pay them out in fiat. like a real trade.
if the bot buy not for real than the rate of (real) buyer and seller remains the same.
the report may be true about the activity of the bot but it plays up his impact very much. there maybe was a psychological impact, but this was rather little.
May 25, 2014, 05:57:14 PM
Patrick Byrne had shown many times that the REAL wall st. is a scam and unless you're in on this scam you cannot raise capital.
I don't think I need to explain here how the US Dollar and the Euro also have similar biases.
-bm
I don't think I need to explain here how the US Dollar and the Euro also have similar biases.
-bm
Akin to the Amish having a cottage industry set up based on their ideals to help feed their families, until a light bulb went off in some investor's head, and suggested, "Nice little brand you have going on here..."
Then it was neatly packaged to other investors, to now we have Amish-crafted products produced in China, et al.
I think they've already done that, it's called Walmart.
-bm
May 25, 2014, 05:54:19 PM
Bravo to the author of this article. Very convincing indeed, but I do not have the time to go through the same analysis that the author went through, so I'll just take his word for what it is.
Assuming this to be 100% correct, then how is it still free market when you don't know if other large exchanges like btc-china, bitstamp, or btc-e are doing the same thing? The only way the mtgox order book was analyzed was because the database was leaked. You can't expect other exchanges to conveniently leak their database for you to verify.
Assuming this to be 100% correct, then how is it still free market when you don't know if other large exchanges like btc-china, bitstamp, or btc-e are doing the same thing? The only way the mtgox order book was analyzed was because the database was leaked. You can't expect other exchanges to conveniently leak their database for you to verify.
If anyone ever thought BTC was a free market just because it "seems like it" they are sadly mistaken and didn't do enough research. It is hard to spend countless hours on stuff like this though, so many complications and twists.
May 25, 2014, 05:52:04 PM
I bet some variant of this Gox scam is still happening on Huobi or OKCoin. All the insanely big buys that pump the market globally seem to happen over there. What kind of rational person would have millions on Chinese exchanges that are in regulation violations? I will probably get back to this post once Huobi or OKCoin are exposed for continuing the Gox ponzi scheme.
May 25, 2014, 05:46:27 PM
Patrick Byrne had shown many times that the REAL wall st. is a scam and unless you're in on this scam you cannot raise capital.
I don't think I need to explain here how the US Dollar and the Euro also have similar biases.
-bm
I don't think I need to explain here how the US Dollar and the Euro also have similar biases.
-bm
Akin to the Amish having a cottage industry set up based on their ideals to help feed their families, until a light bulb went off in some investor's head, and suggested, "Nice little brand you have going on here..."
Then it was neatly packaged to other investors, to now we have Amish-crafted products produced in China, et al.
May 25, 2014, 05:40:06 PM
do you guys think if bitcoin reaches a very high market cap.. that it would still be heavily manipulated? i'd think so.. by then a lot of major players will enter the game and they will collude to swing hard.
Once bitcoins starts trading quasi-legitimately, they'll just string another cable from New York to Chicago to knock off a couple nanoseconds of trading time to earn a few satoshis per each and every transaction.
May 25, 2014, 05:35:32 PM
Patrick Byrne had shown many times that the REAL wall st. is a scam and unless you're in on this scam you cannot raise capital.
I don't think I need to explain here how the US Dollar and the Euro also have similar biases.
-bm
I don't think I need to explain here how the US Dollar and the Euro also have similar biases.
-bm
May 25, 2014, 05:32:58 PM
do you guys think if bitcoin reaches a very high market cap.. that it would still be heavily manipulated? i'd think so.. by then a lot of major players will enter the game and they will collude to swing hard.
May 25, 2014, 05:32:27 PM
Quote from: Elokane link=topic=624877.msgt'6936577#msg6936577 date=1401050710
The interesting question here is what percentage this fake money accounted for out of the fiat flow into the Bitcoin market. We're talking about ~half a billion fake dollars that Gox printed - how much real money entered the game during the latest price increase?
have you ever played the game 'Musical Chairs'? It's very similar, and they know when the music is going to stop.
-bm
In what way does this answer the question?
I just explained it above- they create 'spin' on the market, but there are only a limited number of 'winning' seats and they make sure you're not sitting in one when the music stops.
-bm
May 25, 2014, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: Elokane link=topic=624877.msgt'6936577#msg6936577 date=1401050710
The interesting question here is what percentage this fake money accounted for out of the fiat flow into the Bitcoin market. We're talking about ~half a billion fake dollars that Gox printed - how much real money entered the game during the latest price increase?
have you ever played the game 'Musical Chairs'? It's very similar, and they know when the music is going to stop.
-bm
In what way does this answer the question?
May 25, 2014, 05:25:27 PM
That Willy article, while entertaining, is full of holes.
The main question is unanswered? Who did it and for whose benefit?
The main question is unanswered? Who did it and for whose benefit?
for whose benefit?
here's the con game:
1) insiders and major stakeholders create front companies that look like impartial exchanges.
2) they pump up the price by making it look like sales are happening with money that isnt there.
3) greedy dumb people(90% of bitcoin people) think they can make money so they get in.
4) the original group now takes their money out of the system and they are left with a temporarily valuable asset which they then sell off(to the dumb greedy people).
it's so obvious this is going on, and it's the oldest game in the book. Now we've got 'suicides' happening among the management of some exchanges?
time to smell the coffee.
-bm
ps. NXT is it's own fully auditable exchange. you can actually short NXT itself from within NXT.
May 25, 2014, 05:20:12 PM
i'v been warning about that for ages, everyone would just deny as if they were part of the scam probably to protect their dreams of becoming millionarie. bitcoin is not worth more than a few dollars
May 25, 2014, 05:18:38 PM
That Willy article, while entertaining, is full of holes.
The main question is unanswered. Who did it and for whose benefit?
It would take an interested party ONLY 23.25 mil a month at current prices to purchase 10 coins every 10 min, which is 40% of ALL new supply.
Q: What is 23.25 mil a month for a single well established party (a state or a very large hedge fund)?
A: Almost nothing, considering that bond purchasing program is still at 45 bil/mo (down from 85 bil a mo just a few months ago).
23.25 mil is ~1/2000 of bond purchasing program, which is so miniscule that it could easily fit into a multitude of "other" items.
I am not suggesting that US was doing it, but it could have been almost any of the large states and/or funds.
The main question is unanswered. Who did it and for whose benefit?
It would take an interested party ONLY 23.25 mil a month at current prices to purchase 10 coins every 10 min, which is 40% of ALL new supply.
Q: What is 23.25 mil a month for a single well established party (a state or a very large hedge fund)?
A: Almost nothing, considering that bond purchasing program is still at 45 bil/mo (down from 85 bil a mo just a few months ago).
23.25 mil is ~1/2000 of bond purchasing program, which is so miniscule that it could easily fit into a multitude of "other" items.
I am not suggesting that US was doing it, but it could have been almost any of the large states and/or funds.
May 25, 2014, 05:16:40 PM
Honestly, I am not surprised they allowed this type of behaviour.
Many traders should of just used another exchange when they noticed this behaviour in December.
Shady company.
Many traders should of just used another exchange when they noticed this behaviour in December.
Shady company.
May 25, 2014, 05:14:58 PM
I guess Mark thought he could get away with it.
And he did get away with it.
Other exchange owners, upon noticing this, will surely be quite tempted to pull off a similar crime, no?
And we all know what that will do to the BTC price and real world adoption. The media will have a field day, again. Thus, the Average Joes will stay far away from anything Bitcoin-related.
This. After the mtgox fiasco, many exchanges (specifically alt coins) were supposedly "hacked" and had funds "stolen".
To paraphrase...
"You're goin' need a bigger bed!"
These guys like to play with other's money, so now it's time to play with their livelihood. Game on!
May 25, 2014, 04:54:37 PM
I guess Mark thought he could get away with it.
And he did get away with it.
Other exchange owners, upon noticing this, will surely be quite tempted to pull off a similar crime, no?
And we all know what that will do to the BTC price and real world adoption. The media will have a field day, again. Thus, the Average Joes will stay far away from anything Bitcoin-related.
This. After the mtgox fiasco, many exchanges (specifically alt coins) were supposedly "hacked" and had funds "stolen".
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