Provably fair games are not fair | Bitcointalksearch.org

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: darewaller on January 19, 2023, 06:08:05 AM

Quote from: seleme on January 16, 2023, 04:27:42 PM

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets. You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Oh really? Never knew this yet. I don't know if it's true or not but I knew a good number of gamblers who keep on changing/shuffling their seeds. It's not they think that the casino can cheat on them as on what you explain but they only believe that it increases their winning chance.

I know that we can also edit and write costume words as our seeds so they also write weird words and characters on it but most of the times it was their favourite/lucky numbers. For me, I never change my client seed. I think I am over a million bets already with the same seed that I use but believe it or not, I still can be able to win. IMO it's not about the seeds but it's about the reputation of the casino.

I do also see this one but back in the past where there are people who do really actively changing up their seeds and believing that it was really that affecting their winning rate or chance which i do told to myself

if its really that working? Dont know on whats up into their minds but pretty sure that they had really that able to realize on whats the reality because there's no way on beating up the house on longer runes no matter

how many times you would be changing up that seed that you could able to do so.Odds and chances would be still the same, there are really just people who are that mindful too much whether the site
they are playing on is really that fair or not.

darewaller

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Quote from: seleme on January 16, 2023, 04:27:42 PM

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets. You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Oh really? Never knew this yet. I don't know if it's true or not but I knew a good number of gamblers who keep on changing/shuffling their seeds. It's not they think that the casino can cheat on them as on what you explain but they only believe that it increases their winning chance.

I know that we can also edit and write costume words as our seeds so they also write weird words and characters on it but most of the times it was their favourite/lucky numbers. For me, I never change my client seed. I think I am over a million bets already with the same seed that I use but believe it or not, I still can be able to win. IMO it's not about the seeds but it's about the reputation of the casino.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: rodskee on January 18, 2023, 02:48:06 AM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on January 18, 2023, 01:02:35 AM

Quote from: Quidat on January 17, 2023, 06:37:50 PM

When you are losing then it would be impossible for you not to say up into your mind "arent these things totally fair?" its a very common question in mind specially when you are in a situation where you had bust all of your balance in a snap.Just like you on which im not really a fan on seeing and checking those long hex of numbers and letters just to make myself that convinced that they are fair.
Most sites do really show off about verifying those bet rolls but im not really that paying up attention whether they are really that fair or honest or not.
So its up to someone and its better to stick with those known and reputable ones to save up your time.

When we experience defeat, sometimes we will think that the casino is cheating on us so we experience that defeat. But actually, we have made mistakes and are not trying to prevent them from happening. But they can still research whether it is really fair or if there is cheating but it takes time to find out the truth. And it's better for us to just play gambling as usual without thinking about whether the casino is really fair or unfair because we will be obsessed with researching it and won't get the pleasure of gambling.

It is not all casino has that mate, remember that there are also some BS casino that is here for scamming and cheating so yes they cannot provide truly probably fair , I even experience some casino in the past that has this attitude when I long played winning but when I tried betting High? then i become a loser Grin

so let the us learn the site first before dealing and also try not to become a victim of those site by not listening to others comment and advices .

Yes, of course, and we knew about it and would never use the casino. I have also experienced playing at this deceptive casino in the past, which made me have to be selective in choosing a casino that really makes me comfortable playing at that casino.

I also tried betting high but it didn't work for me and instead, I lost completely Grin

Studying the site and looking for more info can help us prevent finding the wrong casino. Thus, we will avoid these deceptive casinos.

rodskee

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on January 18, 2023, 01:02:35 AM

Quote from: Quidat on January 17, 2023, 06:37:50 PM

When you are losing then it would be impossible for you not to say up into your mind "arent these things totally fair?" its a very common question in mind specially when you are in a situation where you had bust all of your balance in a snap.Just like you on which im not really a fan on seeing and checking those long hex of numbers and letters just to make myself that convinced that they are fair.
Most sites do really show off about verifying those bet rolls but im not really that paying up attention whether they are really that fair or honest or not.
So its up to someone and its better to stick with those known and reputable ones to save up your time.

When we experience defeat, sometimes we will think that the casino is cheating on us so we experience that defeat. But actually, we have made mistakes and are not trying to prevent them from happening. But they can still research whether it is really fair or if there is cheating but it takes time to find out the truth. And it's better for us to just play gambling as usual without thinking about whether the casino is really fair or unfair because we will be obsessed with researching it and won't get the pleasure of gambling.

It is not all casino has that mate, remember that there are also some BS casino that is here for scamming and cheating so yes they cannot provide truly probably fair , I even experience some casino in the past that has this attitude when I long played winning but when I tried betting High? then i become a loser Grin

so let the us learn the site first before dealing and also try not to become a victim of those site by not listening to others comment and advices .

Crypt0Gore

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Fair on the winning side of gambling or fair on the losing side? There is no such thing as Fair when gambling, if you want fairness then you are talking about winning over and over again so what's in for gambling companies when players are only winning?

There is no way you won't lose when gambling and fact are you will lose more than you win, this is how gambling platforms are designed.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: Quidat on January 17, 2023, 06:37:50 PM

When you are losing then it would be impossible for you not to say up into your mind "arent these things totally fair?" its a very common question in mind specially when you are in a situation where you had bust all of your balance in a snap.Just like you on which im not really a fan on seeing and checking those long hex of numbers and letters just to make myself that convinced that they are fair.
Most sites do really show off about verifying those bet rolls but im not really that paying up attention whether they are really that fair or honest or not.
So its up to someone and its better to stick with those known and reputable ones to save up your time.

When we experience defeat, sometimes we will think that the casino is cheating on us so we experience that defeat. But actually, we have made mistakes and are not trying to prevent them from happening. But they can still research whether it is really fair or if there is cheating but it takes time to find out the truth. And it's better for us to just play gambling as usual without thinking about whether the casino is really fair or unfair because we will be obsessed with researching it and won't get the pleasure of gambling.

livingfree

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Quote from: Quidat on January 17, 2023, 06:37:50 PM

When you are losing then it would be impossible for you not to say up into your mind "arent these things totally fair?" its a very common question in mind specially when you are in a situation where you had bust all of your balance in a snap.Just like you on which im not really a fan on seeing and checking those long hex of numbers and letters just to make myself that convinced that they are fair.
Most sites do really show off about verifying those bet rolls but im not really that paying up attention whether they are really that fair or honest or not.

And that's why they can be verifiable to remove that doubt if they're legit or not. But, it's true that whenever we're losing, we think of anything negative for which we also accuse if the provably fair from the casino we've lost is fair or not.

Quote from: Quidat on January 17, 2023, 06:37:50 PM

So its up to someone and its better to stick with those known and reputable ones to save up your time.

That's one approach so that you won't doubt if the provably fair games are literally fair. Just go with the ones that have been known in the community to avoid any suspecting whenever you're not doing well.

Quidat

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Quote from: Oasisman on January 17, 2023, 05:21:28 PM

Quote from: seleme on January 16, 2023, 04:27:42 PM

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets. You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Indeed a complex algorithm, this is the the main reason why I am not a fan of some provably fair games in the casinos. Because, there are those rigged provably fair casinos and as for me, it may be difficult to spot which one is legit and which one is not (regardless of it's popularity and where their reputations stands). So, I'd always root for sports betting.

When you are losing then it would be impossible for you not to say up into your mind "arent these things totally fair?" its a very common question in mind specially when you are in a situation where you had bust all of your balance in a snap.Just like you on which im not really a fan on seeing and checking those long hex of numbers and letters just to make myself that convinced that they are fair.
Most sites do really show off about verifying those bet rolls but im not really that paying up attention whether they are really that fair or honest or not.
So its up to someone and its better to stick with those known and reputable ones to save up your time.

Oasisman

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Quote from: seleme on January 16, 2023, 04:27:42 PM

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets. You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Indeed a complex algorithm, this is the the main reason why I am not a fan of some provably fair games in the casinos. Because, there are those rigged provably fair casinos and as for me, it may be difficult to spot which one is legit and which one is not (regardless of it's popularity and where their reputations stands). So, I'd always root for sports betting.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: seleme on January 16, 2023, 04:27:42 PM

This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets. You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Better yet, if you are in doubt with these games, then simply don't play.
If you think you are being taken advantage of and you are not enjoying the game, look for other games that you think will satisfy your desires.
So even after checking the provably fairness of the site and you are not satisfied, maybe, it is time to change your game or your site.
This kind of consideration is up to the gambler himself. The casino will put their provably fairness system in place and it is on you how to utilize it.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on January 17, 2023, 09:45:38 AM

Do you have any proof to claim your statement of a person will win if they are going with fixed amount for 100 bets or so on?

I can be coincidence if you are come up with one or two examples but every time if same thing happens then you can accuse the game or the casino for not becoming completely fair with the results but as of now its complete non sense.

It doesnt really make any sense because people would really be thinking up that way on which in every 100 bets and betting even on 1% winning chance where they do really expect that they would be hitting that

1 winning bet or roll which is really that a very wrong perception or in speaking about chances which those people who do know wouldnt really be having this kind of approach towards on how provably fair means.

We can make out calculations but results or outcomes arent that determined due to random manner and there's no way that we could really make out assurance no matter how
we do make up things.

seoincorporation

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Quote from: raybucks on January 11, 2023, 08:45:56 AM

Clientseed: this is provided by the browser you’re playing on;

The client seed is provided by the browser by default, but that can be manipulated by the user, that way the users can make the outcome of the bets fair and random.

Quote from: raybucks on January 11, 2023, 08:45:56 AM

you will always lose when you play provably fair games too long

I agree, the long run will make us lose, but that is not because the site is rigged, that's because the site has a house edge, and that small percentage on the side of the casino makes the casino win in the long run.

For example, if you bet $10 to 50% chance to win you will not get $20 back, you will get x1.98 if the house edge is 1%. So for each $10 you bet you get back $19.8, and that's why the casinos win in the long run.

rhomelmabini

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What's not random in provably fair game OP? If you know the technicality of it then you should investigate there not just because you think it's not fair on your behalf. What do you mean by random in streaks? Not trying to counter your opinion or observation but being random. Maybe moving on is just the best solution.

jrrsparkles

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Do you have any proof to claim your statement of a person will win if they are going with fixed amount for 100 bets or so on?

I can be coincidence if you are come up with one or two examples but every time if same thing happens then you can accuse the game or the casino for not becoming completely fair with the results but as of now its complete non sense.

Cryptomultiplier

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As the name implies, 'provably fair game', is a gambling game that checks and verifies an online casino’s fairness towards its players. It relinquishes the fear of most players that online gambling sites will rip them off. A player is supposed to have access to the games he/she has played by using hashtags.
I don't see how a provably fair game is meant to be fair, seeing that it is just a feature independent of a third party, mostly it is for those games that is played with cryptocurrency.
It is supposed to be a proof of work checking system by its own rules of course, in this case it shows results of a gambling game that can only be accessed by the user and non else, not even a third party.
https://www.softgamings.com/casino-glossary/provably-fair/

crzy

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Quote from: Viscore on January 16, 2023, 04:17:47 PM

Quote from: Saint-loup on January 12, 2023, 05:58:28 PM

I think you don't fully understand what provably fair means, and especially what it doesn't mean. Provably fair doesn't mean you won't lose money in the long run, it doesn't mean the house edge equals 0% or the RTP is 100%. In other words it doesn't mean the expected value is not negative. It just mean you can check the outcome and see if the casino has cheated you or not. So you shouldn't expect to not lose money by playing to these games, you will lose the same amount of money in the long run as a similar live game or a similar non provably fair game not rigged.

Of course, there will always be inevitable losses even in provable fair games. Because once you gamble, expect that you will gain more losses than wins, that’s the reality. However, when it comes to provable fair games, that means that the casino whether offline or online, is not allowed to cheat on its players because those games show transparency and reliability. If you think they are suspicious, you can actually question them and verify the outcome of the game.

Probably fair games doesn’t mean you’ll always win, luck should still be on your side and expect losses as well. If there’s something wrong with the site, fairness can be computed but I doubt a simple gambler will do this thing. Live casinos are the same, you can’t expect more winnings on that though the chance of making profit is quiet high especially if you fully understand the game. This is gambling, it is still better to play on a fair site and have fun.

seleme

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This is complex content so I will explain my opinion in short and best possible way. If you keep using same client seed and do same bets on same games casinos can take advantage of stable variables to rig provably fairness. Shuffle puff is used to give player worst possible combinations and it will lead to more losses than green bets. You are safe if you use various random client seeds and try different original games, IMHO.

Viscore

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Quote from: Saint-loup on January 12, 2023, 05:58:28 PM

I think you don't fully understand what provably fair means, and especially what it doesn't mean. Provably fair doesn't mean you won't lose money in the long run, it doesn't mean the house edge equals 0% or the RTP is 100%. In other words it doesn't mean the expected value is not negative. It just mean you can check the outcome and see if the casino has cheated you or not. So you shouldn't expect to not lose money by playing to these games, you will lose the same amount of money in the long run as a similar live game or a similar non provably fair game not rigged.

Of course, there will always be inevitable losses even in provable fair games. Because once you gamble, expect that you will gain more losses than wins, that’s the reality. However, when it comes to provable fair games, that means that the casino whether offline or online, is not allowed to cheat on its players because those games show transparency and reliability. If you think they are suspicious, you can actually question them and verify the outcome of the game.

bitgov

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Quote from: raybucks on January 11, 2023, 08:45:56 AM

I played provably fair games 1 year and i mostly losed so i am moving to live casino

My english is bad and it's hard for me to make you understand ,

it took me some time to understand What OP is trying to say.
I have read some of the posts to understand the context too, I am not sue - what is the essence of the post.

serjent05

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Quote from: adzino on January 14, 2023, 07:05:21 AM

Quote from: raybucks on January 11, 2023, 10:43:58 AM

I experimented many times ,
Changing client seed will reset everything ,

and

Let , I am playing keno , you can experiment this,
ok , so game is provably fair ,
I selected 10 keno number and I faced a long losing streak of 20 then It will always hit when by bet is initial amount or less than initial when i started playing keno
After long losing streak of 20 When i incresed the bet by only a few percent I will continue losing streak
I don't know this assumptiom is right or not
But i experimented 6 months
If you don't believe you can experiment i guarantee you will also face this type of fairness

Here is your problem.. You don't understand how provably fair games work. You think that if you place small bets, you win, but if you place large bets, you lose. That is true for casinos that have fake provably fair games and casinos that rig your bets. Play in a legit casino and you will be fine. Also just because you lost 20x in a row doesn't mean you will win in the next bet. I bet you don't complain after you win 100x in just two bets, do you? You are suffering from gamblers fallacy.

The idea of only small bets win can be refuted by visiting the casino statistics. Just by looking at the players bet result, we can see large bets winnings and small bets losing.

Quote

I selected 10 keno number and I faced a long losing streak of 20 then It will always hit when by bet is initial amount or less than initial when i started playing keno
After long losing streak of 20 When i incresed the bet by only a few percent I will continue losing streak
I don't know this assumptiom is right or not
But i experimented 6 months
If you don't believe you can experiment i guarantee you will also face this type of fairness

How about a different approach? Placing a larger bet first then after several wager, decrease your best size, check if the result is different.

I believe in a provably fair game, the result is random, it is not because your bet is huge why you lost or it is that your bet is small why you win. It is because the result in a provably fair game is always random. You win and you lose no matter how much your wagering size is.

Topic: Provably fair games are not fair (Read 581 times)