Topic: Publicly held Trump trials - ongoing - page 14. (Read 4438 times)

The reason it doesn't work most of the time is that the so-called defendant didn't go far enough. A man/woman can't accept being the defendant, and stand unrepresented at the same time. The two are contradictory. But that's what most of them try to do. So, most of them lose by contradicting themselves.



Ammon Bundy didn't know what he was doing in court. The jury simply liked what he did in the wildlife refuge takeover. The jury freed him. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/us/bundy-brothers-acquitted-in-takeover-of-oregon-wildlife-refuge.html.

The jury has the authority to vote how they want regarding any case they hear... provided it is a jury based on the 6th or 7th Amendments. There is evidence of court cases all over the place, where juries even reversed the charges in some cases, so that the plaintiff had to pay the fine.

This doesn't work.   It's been tried.

The judge would just deny his stupid request like all the stupid requests he's made before.  All the appellate courts would decline to intervene, including SCOTUS.  If your theory worked, nobody would ever be prosecuted by DOJ for breaking federal laws. It wouldn't be a secret nobody knew about.  It would just take one successful case, and then everyone would do it.



So how about some examples of a jury  "striking down a law".  

That's not how it works.

Congress (or state lawmakers) make laws.  If they want to get rid of a law, they have to pass a bill,

Judges interpret the laws.

Executive branch enforces the laws....wait you learn better from youtube videos...I have two perfect videos for you, please watch:  

3 Ring Government - Schoolhouse Rock
I'm just a bill - Schoolhouse Rock

Thank you for proving my point... well, several of my points. You forgot the part of my quote which says, "... with relation to the court circumstances to which they allow themselves to be called." It's only when a large number of juries strike down a law that SCOTUS will be called to strike down the law for the whole country. Other than that, the law is stricken for the court case to which the jury has been called, and so strikes it.

You quoted it right in your quoting of the 7th Amendment, "... and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law." In other words, what the jury decides is the thing that becomes law for the case at hand... even the striking down of a Congressionally mandated law.

But that is only for, "... Suits at common law," as the 7th Amendment says. There is no common law trial for criminal cases listed in these two Amendments. So, if Trump wanted to avoid being criminally charged, he should have switched the court over to the Common Law side. The way to do it is to stand as a man, present, and not represented (no attorneys)... and make the statement that any man/woman who has been wronged by him should get on the stand, show the wrong, and "I will compensate him/her." So, it is Trumps fault for not swinging the whole thing into common law, and holding it there.

However, Even if he accepts a criminal jury trial, the decisions of the jury cannot be changed except through a proper declaration of mistrial. If the jury decided that Trump was innocent of everything, he would get off, free. It would only apply to him. The next person accused of breaking the same law(s) as Trump, would have to get his own jury, and jury decisions for himself. They might be different than in Trump's case.

Now you can see why the judge won't allow Trump a jury trial. Trump is popular enough that many juries might set him completely free. The judge is partially wrong in this. He isn't supposed to dis-allow a trial by jury, even if the defendant agrees to such, or hires attorneys, becoming a ward of the court, thereby. But nobody seems to want to take the judge to task over his failure to obey his own Rules of Court.

I have told you a million times: youtube is not a credible source of information in general, but those channels that you seen to be following are probably the humour section of some short of outlet.

6th

7th

There absolutely nothing of what you say on this nor any other amendment. A jury cannot fucking "strike down" any law dumbass, much on the contrary, they have to decide on specific questions about the charges following the criteria setforth in the common law.

Go to kindergarten dumbass.

You are mistaken. America is a Republic. The so-called government is the Democracy. The 6th and 7th Amendments to the Constitution allow a 12-person jury of the Republic to strike down any Government law... with relation to the court circumstances to which they allow themselves to be called.

If you believed your country was still a Democracy (and you clearly don't), you'd realise the lunatic you're rooting for is the one betraying all the principles your nation was founded upon. 

Mike Pence credible? Lol. He turned on his 'boss' and the American people. But that's the kind of people you like, right? Back stabbers. How big of a stabbed-to-death trail would we find in YOUR history if we followed it?

Thanks good advice, I think most people no longer bother and it seems that now he is trying to get keywords and links into the algo, so it may seem that he is playing the game, but can't we all play the game? Not everything is what it looks.

Mike Pence is a big one. He is credible in general, he could have played along with the orange-ambition guy so at least he was ... smart enough? afraid enough? ambitious enough? My guess is that he has no future while Trump is around, so he is going to be motivated on this one, while he has to pretend that is just complying with the law.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/06/politics/mike-pence-georgia-witness-list/index.html

Ha! I see some folks here have got sucked down the BADecker trolling rabbit hole. He loves it.
I gave up debating this moron years ago with all his plethora of asinine threads.
Not worth wasting time. Every veteran on this forum knows he's the village idiot and has him on ignore or just laughs at his lunacy.
Sometimes I'll engage him if I'm bored and had a few, just for a chuckle. And I know I'll get a reply.
I think his whole life consists of trolling the bitcointalk p+s board  with nonsense and nothing else.


And to stay on topic, Mike Pence is gonna be a good witness for the prosecution in the Georgia trial, no doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHt6hnLTe5c

You jokers are so funny. You talk about all kinds of abstract ideals, and forget the realities of what is happening. For example. A friend reminded me that gasoline prices are coming down. "See?" he said, "Biden is doing a good job." But this friend couldn't answer when I reminded him that food prices have almost doubled under Biden, and some have more than doubled. And he didn't have anything to say at all when I showed him that gasoline prices went way up under the Biden reign before they started coming back down. So, Biden played the game of screwing America, just like he is playing the game of making it look good, now, so he gets more votes.

Personally, I would rather have America be able to manufacture all its 'stuff', rather than have to depend on foreign countries for anything. And that was what Trump was doing - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55119252.

Bring all the jobs back to America. Make America strong within herself. Then, if other nations want to trade with her, let them bow to America's demands. Don't do any 'bad' to the other nations. Let them play with the US on the terms that the US lays down, or let them do their own thing. After all, the US doesn't need them if they are making America weak. After all, most of the modern conveniences that other nations have came from the US, or were at least started in these nations by the US.

I mean, isn't this kinda what you want for your own countries? Independence from needing to rely on any other nation?

BTW,

Or reelect Biden,

I know that most people here will not get into the details of how stuff arrives at their tables, desks and workplaces, but trying to untangle nearly any supply chain in the US from Mexico, China and a few other countries in Asia is a nightmare. The populist approach of "we will make them play along" or "we will get a better deal" or "we will impose conditions on them" is based on the very stupid assumption that Trump's team is "just smarter".

As it is anything he says - until it comes the time to deliver. Then there comes the lies, the "deep state" not allow it, the fake information "employment is lower", we "care about minorities too",...

That is the problem when you set unrealistic expectations - you have then to work your way out of the mudpit.

Please, let's MUHA - "Make US Honest[/b] Again" and get rid of the cheap populist leader. There has to be something better to offer to the people than you know who.


Speaking of which, it is looking a lot like getting convicted - the topic of this.

Are you aware that economical strategy to bend the will of other countries and nations only work when those targeted countries have relatively tight commerce lines with the USA and her allies, right? Trump indeed tried to use that strategy against China and Mexico, one could have it worked good enough because they dependence of the Mexican and Chinese economy of the USA consumerism. But it is a move you cannot do against countries which rely their imports and exports on Russia/China/India and have null commercial exchange with the USA.
If the military options was never supposed to be effective, USA would have never used it through her history, in my opinion.

What concerns me is how ambiguous the MAGA slogan is, a Great country is quite a different vision, depending whom you ask.

Also, in one of lastest Trump's speeches he said he would not rest until all in America is able to afford a house a vehicle (electric or combustion). Of course, he could not care to give details on how he is planing to make the economy surge to auch levels where everyone can get all of it in less than 4 years...

You said it, "MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day..." . That's exactly what a President does and is supposed to do. Methods for Making America Great Again change along with changing circumstances. The only reason why it might look like Trump "may be telling people two different things in the same day" is, circumstances change that fast at times. It's his duty to change with the circumstance so that he is Making America Great Again.

Attacking other countries doesn't necessarily have anything to do any kind of military threat. It can be done with proper international taxation. If Mexico or any other country won't play along, increase taxation on imports into the US. At the same time, decrease taxes on exports to that country. And change the taxation daily if necessary, based on the results.

Trump as President can change loads of taxation and regulation on internal, US companies, so that they have to change themselves just to survive. But the results will ultimately Make America Great Again.

Because there isn't anything behind the slogan! MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day, to the point that he may be telling people two different things in the same day like during covid.

Anyway the key items are immigration (trying to stop it even threating attacking Mexico and stuff...), international relations - extreme tariffs to imports; "stopping the war in Ukraine in 24 hours", Cozy with Ruzzia, China, North Korea, supporter of Israel, locally lowering taxes and the usual Republican economic agenda. On abortion and civil liberties, he has by now figured out that he will need a much softer approach if he wants to win elections (one day this, next day that).

All this is just a political programme - quite hyperbolic and probably not the right one for the US - but not really a problem. The problem is the already in preparation assault to institutions, putting a set of pre-screened high level civil servants that would not hesitate in breaking the law if asked to. The prep work is being done by "ONGs" that have "no relation to Trump" *wink *wink. That is the real problem, apart with giving wings to every undocumented idiot in the US that has "a theory".

By the way, I have not fully understood the implications or full meaning of the Trump slogan "Make America Great Again". It seems to imply there was a period of time or an era when The United States was "great" or better than it is today.
I wonder what Trump means by it, what was the golden age he intends to take back the nation to? Is he talking about the 80's, the 90's ?
Because it would be a matter of personal opinion and perspective whether those years were actually the greatest for the USA or not, even among Republicans, many of them would disagree when they golden age which they want so much actually took place.

Leaving the USA aside, to me the best years were the early 2000-2010. Probably just because it was my childhood and all was just fun and games. Who knows.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/about-half-us-republicans-could-spurn-trump-if-he-is-convicted-reutersipsos-poll-2023-08-03/


Try again.

Well, you're close. It isn't jail. It's prison... the prison of the Presidency. I mean, why would anyone give up his freedom to put up with 330 million Americans and all their gripes?

Trump thanks the courts for all their advertising. The people have loved Trump since before 2020. All this court advertising is simply bringing it out into the open, as the polls are showing us.

Make America Great Again

He certainly swore the Constitution - the one you have not read and do not understand.

You are here the only slave to your own ignorance and fantasies. The worst king of ignorant - the one who does not even know the extent of his own lack of knowledge and the worst kind of slave - one who thinks is free and lives in a wonderland of pink unicorns. Freedom is earned with blood and sweat, not shit-linking all over adult people having serious discussions.

Go to kindergaten kiddo.

Understand it any way you like, the tangerine blowhard and his ridiculous hair implants are still going to jail.  Most likely along with a few of his co-conspirators.   

Sounds like you don't really understand freedom, liberty, and the basics of how governments work.

The only reason why Trump is having the trouble he is having is, he agreed to it.The laws of the US are applicable to government people more than they are to non-government people. Why? Because government people took the Oath of Office (OoO). Since Trump is not in government any longer, he is not under the OoO at the moment. If he doesn't prosecute the government people for the harm they are doing to him, that's his business.

I know it a big step in understanding for a slave like you to take, but at least try to free yourself from the ignorance. Or do you like being a slave?