Quantitative Easing | Bitcointalksearch.org

Mobius

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Quote from: hodap on August 09, 2014, 07:16:31 PM

Quote from: Mobius on August 09, 2014, 07:10:36 PM

Quote from: tabnloz on August 09, 2014, 08:47:16 AM

Quote from: abora on August 09, 2014, 08:34:55 AM

QE as at today is the only measure curtailing inflation to a large extent not only in America but the world at large.

Que? QE is 'designed' to create inflation. It is a measure to stop deflation.

I think the actual goal of QE was to stimulate the economy by getting people and institutions to take more risk with their money. Higher inflation (or lower deflation) was merely a byproduct of QE.

Lending money to companies that went bust is not encourage them to take more risk. It is a way to inflate their debt away at everyone else expense.

But the debt was paid back to the government. The government actually earned a lot of interest on the bailouts to the banks. If the banks were lending money to consumers at similar rates they would likely be charged with predatory lending.

Bogleg

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Quote from: hodap on August 09, 2014, 07:16:31 PM

Quote from: Mobius on August 09, 2014, 07:10:36 PM

Quote from: tabnloz on August 09, 2014, 08:47:16 AM

Quote from: abora on August 09, 2014, 08:34:55 AM

QE as at today is the only measure curtailing inflation to a large extent not only in America but the world at large.

Que? QE is 'designed' to create inflation. It is a measure to stop deflation.

I think the actual goal of QE was to stimulate the economy by getting people and institutions to take more risk with their money. Higher inflation (or lower deflation) was merely a byproduct of QE.

Lending money to companies that went bust is not encourage them to take more risk. It is a way to inflate their debt away at everyone else expense.

It is both. Bailout and encouraging reckless behavior and eventually end up with even more bailouts.

hodap

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Quote from: Mobius on August 09, 2014, 07:10:36 PM

Quote from: tabnloz on August 09, 2014, 08:47:16 AM

Quote from: abora on August 09, 2014, 08:34:55 AM

QE as at today is the only measure curtailing inflation to a large extent not only in America but the world at large.

Que? QE is 'designed' to create inflation. It is a measure to stop deflation.

I think the actual goal of QE was to stimulate the economy by getting people and institutions to take more risk with their money. Higher inflation (or lower deflation) was merely a byproduct of QE.

Lending money to companies that went bust is not encourage them to take more risk. It is a way to inflate their debt away at everyone else expense.

Mobius

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Quote from: tabnloz on August 09, 2014, 08:47:16 AM

Quote from: abora on August 09, 2014, 08:34:55 AM

QE as at today is the only measure curtailing inflation to a large extent not only in America but the world at large.

Que? QE is 'designed' to create inflation. It is a measure to stop deflation.

I think the actual goal of QE was to stimulate the economy by getting people and institutions to take more risk with their money. Higher inflation (or lower deflation) was merely a byproduct of QE.

tabnloz

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Quote from: michaelwang33 on August 09, 2014, 11:43:26 AM

Quote from: tabnloz on August 09, 2014, 08:19:47 AM

QE is the financial version of Iraq: you can't stop the occupation, for what you created is a monster.

I don't think this is true. QE was designed to attempt to prop up the economy. Once the economy is able to grow at a strong enough pace on its own then QE will no longer be necessary. Now getting the balance sheet of the fed back down to more normal levels is a much different story.

QE was designed to prop up the banks (see dodgy dealings in regards to Lehmann, AIG, Hank Paulson).

The economy cannot grow at a strong enough pace because it is still choc full of toxic debt and derivatives. If QE stops, everything tanks and the deflation that has been trying to take over and purge the system of its excesses, does its job. Don't wait up or hold your breath for green shoots, they are not coming - it's been 6 damn years. Soon we'll be calling it the lost decade.

Regarding QE / Iraq, both 'occupations' were dishonest.

Victory was declared on numerous occasions only to be shown as false.

Both are at a certain point where withdrawal sees the situation deteriorate quickly, ensuring that you can never really leave.

michaelwang33

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Quote from: tabnloz on August 09, 2014, 08:19:47 AM

QE is the financial version of Iraq: you can't stop the occupation, for what you created is a monster.

I don't think this is true. QE was designed to attempt to prop up the economy. Once the economy is able to grow at a strong enough pace on its own then QE will no longer be necessary. Now getting the balance sheet of the fed back down to more normal levels is a much different story.

tabnloz

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Quote from: abora on August 09, 2014, 08:34:55 AM

QE as at today is the only measure curtailing inflation to a large extent not only in America but the world at large.

Que? QE is 'designed' to create inflation. It is a measure to stop deflation.

abora

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QE as at today is the only measure curtailing inflation to a large extent not only in America but the world at large.

tabnloz

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QE is the financial version of Iraq: you can't stop the occupation, for what you created is a monster.

DannyElfman

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Quote from: fdiini on June 26, 2014, 05:56:54 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on June 26, 2014, 05:43:38 AM

Quote from: madken7777 on June 26, 2014, 03:29:04 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 02:05:48 AM

QE would need to be taken away very gradually.

Even with QE Japan has experienced deflation

QE in Japan doesn't work because price level has gone to unrealistic level. Property and security price are governed by yield and return of investment, if they go up to unsustainable level, the cost will of course need to go down. Printing a lot of money will only make smart money leave the country to seek better yield and reasonable ROI business.

Japans a bit weird in that their debt is larger than their GDP by a significant amount but people trust that their money will not be lost or stolen in the system or the currency will collapse.
Benefits of having your own citizens holding the debt still to get ROI would be a significant challenge for them and they can't really print money to increase their debt so its a bit of a conundrum.

Debt larger than GDP is fine. A more meaningful measurement would be the country income vs debt level. So long as the country has good income via export and service, the debt can be expected to be paid back.

GDP is essentially the "income" that a country has. It is defined as "the sum of all the goods and services produced by the country in a year" and is as close to income as any measure is.

ShakyhandsBTCer

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Quote from: tooil on June 26, 2014, 07:28:02 PM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 26, 2014, 05:48:58 PM

Quote from: fdiini on June 26, 2014, 05:56:54 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on June 26, 2014, 05:43:38 AM

Quote from: madken7777 on June 26, 2014, 03:29:04 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 02:05:48 AM

QE would need to be taken away very gradually.

Even with QE Japan has experienced deflation

QE in Japan doesn't work because price level has gone to unrealistic level. Property and security price are governed by yield and return of investment, if they go up to unsustainable level, the cost will of course need to go down. Printing a lot of money will only make smart money leave the country to seek better yield and reasonable ROI business.

Japans a bit weird in that their debt is larger than their GDP by a significant amount but people trust that their money will not be lost or stolen in the system or the currency will collapse.
Benefits of having your own citizens holding the debt still to get ROI would be a significant challenge for them and they can't really print money to increase their debt so its a bit of a conundrum.

Debt larger than GDP is fine. A more meaningful measurement would be the country income vs debt level. So long as the country has good income via export and service, the debt can be expected to be paid back.

Countries that have a large enough economy so that their currency is used widely outside of that country's commerce are almost "exempt" from these kind of ratios/statistics

To have someone lend you money, you need to demonstrate the ability of paying back. Income/debt ratio is a good way gauging the person ability to payback the loan. No country can be exempted from this rule unless the debt is dominated in the debtor nation currency.

Countries are measured by their ability to repay by a number of statistics. Some countries have large "stocks" of assets (gold, diamonds, oil, and similar) that they export, the revenue from this could be used to measure a countries ability to repay debt. Other countries have a large trade surplus and as a result there is a lot of foreign capital going into the country. Some countries have very large economies and a country's ability to tax is what is measured as to how it could repay their debts.

When large countries like Japan want to issue debt then can issue it in their home currency as there is sufficient demand for that currency throughout the world.

tooil

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Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 26, 2014, 05:48:58 PM

Quote from: fdiini on June 26, 2014, 05:56:54 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on June 26, 2014, 05:43:38 AM

Quote from: madken7777 on June 26, 2014, 03:29:04 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 02:05:48 AM

QE would need to be taken away very gradually.

Even with QE Japan has experienced deflation

QE in Japan doesn't work because price level has gone to unrealistic level. Property and security price are governed by yield and return of investment, if they go up to unsustainable level, the cost will of course need to go down. Printing a lot of money will only make smart money leave the country to seek better yield and reasonable ROI business.

Japans a bit weird in that their debt is larger than their GDP by a significant amount but people trust that their money will not be lost or stolen in the system or the currency will collapse.
Benefits of having your own citizens holding the debt still to get ROI would be a significant challenge for them and they can't really print money to increase their debt so its a bit of a conundrum.

Debt larger than GDP is fine. A more meaningful measurement would be the country income vs debt level. So long as the country has good income via export and service, the debt can be expected to be paid back.

Countries that have a large enough economy so that their currency is used widely outside of that country's commerce are almost "exempt" from these kind of ratios/statistics

To have someone lend you money, you need to demonstrate the ability of paying back. Income/debt ratio is a good way gauging the person ability to payback the loan. No country can be exempted from this rule unless the debt is dominated in the debtor nation currency.

ShakyhandsBTCer

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Activity: 448

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It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin

Quote from: fdiini on June 26, 2014, 05:56:54 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on June 26, 2014, 05:43:38 AM

Quote from: madken7777 on June 26, 2014, 03:29:04 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 02:05:48 AM

QE would need to be taken away very gradually.

Even with QE Japan has experienced deflation

QE in Japan doesn't work because price level has gone to unrealistic level. Property and security price are governed by yield and return of investment, if they go up to unsustainable level, the cost will of course need to go down. Printing a lot of money will only make smart money leave the country to seek better yield and reasonable ROI business.

Japans a bit weird in that their debt is larger than their GDP by a significant amount but people trust that their money will not be lost or stolen in the system or the currency will collapse.
Benefits of having your own citizens holding the debt still to get ROI would be a significant challenge for them and they can't really print money to increase their debt so its a bit of a conundrum.

Debt larger than GDP is fine. A more meaningful measurement would be the country income vs debt level. So long as the country has good income via export and service, the debt can be expected to be paid back.

Countries that have a large enough economy so that their currency is used widely outside of that country's commerce are almost "exempt" from these kind of ratios/statistics

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: fdiini on June 26, 2014, 05:56:54 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on June 26, 2014, 05:43:38 AM

Japans a bit weird in that their debt is larger than their GDP by a significant amount but people trust that their money will not be lost or stolen in the system or the currency will collapse.
Benefits of having your own citizens holding the debt still to get ROI would be a significant challenge for them and they can't really print money to increase their debt so its a bit of a conundrum.

Debt larger than GDP is fine. A more meaningful measurement would be the country income vs debt level. So long as the country has good income via export and service, the debt can be expected to be paid back.

I should have clarified a bit more on that
Here is a neat info graphic on what I meant in relative terms
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/world_debt/world_debt.html

Total debt ratio is about 250% to GDP but your right Income to Debt Repayment is around 55% and Interest is 2% of their debt ratio to GDP so its not that bad although I could point out Italy looks healthier based on that data so in part I guess its how strong you are in the world economy as well.

fdiini

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on June 26, 2014, 05:43:38 AM

Quote from: madken7777 on June 26, 2014, 03:29:04 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 02:05:48 AM

QE would need to be taken away very gradually.

Even with QE Japan has experienced deflation

QE in Japan doesn't work because price level has gone to unrealistic level. Property and security price are governed by yield and return of investment, if they go up to unsustainable level, the cost will of course need to go down. Printing a lot of money will only make smart money leave the country to seek better yield and reasonable ROI business.

Japans a bit weird in that their debt is larger than their GDP by a significant amount but people trust that their money will not be lost or stolen in the system or the currency will collapse.
Benefits of having your own citizens holding the debt still to get ROI would be a significant challenge for them and they can't really print money to increase their debt so its a bit of a conundrum.

Debt larger than GDP is fine. A more meaningful measurement would be the country income vs debt level. So long as the country has good income via export and service, the debt can be expected to be paid back.

Swordsoffreedom

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Activity: 2884

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Quote from: madken7777 on June 26, 2014, 03:29:04 AM

Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 02:05:48 AM

QE would need to be taken away very gradually.

Even with QE Japan has experienced deflation

QE in Japan doesn't work because price level has gone to unrealistic level. Property and security price are governed by yield and return of investment, if they go up to unsustainable level, the cost will of course need to go down. Printing a lot of money will only make smart money leave the country to seek better yield and reasonable ROI business.

Japans a bit weird in that their debt is larger than their GDP by a significant amount but people trust that their money will not be lost or stolen in the system or the currency will collapse.
Benefits of having your own citizens holding the debt still to get ROI would be a significant challenge for them and they can't really print money to increase their debt so its a bit of a conundrum.

madken7777

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Quote from: Harley997 on June 15, 2014, 02:05:48 AM

QE would need to be taken away very gradually.

Even with QE Japan has experienced deflation

QE in Japan doesn't work because price level has gone to unrealistic level. Property and security price are governed by yield and return of investment, if they go up to unsustainable level, the cost will of course need to go down. Printing a lot of money will only make smart money leave the country to seek better yield and reasonable ROI business.

ALToids

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Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 12, 2014, 10:33:17 PM

Quote from: blackhathasher on June 08, 2014, 06:00:42 PM

Quote from: AZwarel on June 07, 2014, 10:36:55 AM

Quote from: Trading on May 28, 2014, 01:49:40 PM

That is your notion of inflation, not the one you will read in most textbooks on economics.

"In economics, inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.[1] When the general price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services. Consequently, inflation reflects a reduction in the purchasing power per unit of money – a loss of real value in the medium of exchange and unit of account within the economy.[2][3] A chief measure of price inflation is the inflation rate, the annualized percentage change in a general price index (normally the consumer price index) over time.[4"

Sir, this is the worst, manipulative post i have ever seen. The above quote is from Wikipedia, BUT you have intentionally erased a line from the definition. The original looks like this:

"In economics, inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.[1] It can be defined as too much money chasing too few goods.

YEP it is pretty clear that user: "Trading" is a douche Fed lapdog with no integrity.

QE IS INFLATION.

INFLATION IS BAD (no matter how try to justify it)

Banks, manufacturers, governments, currencies and everyone should be allowed to fail. In their wake better solutions will arise.

Look at Mt Gox. They sucked. They failed. Now better exchanges rule the landscape. Bitcoin and a truly free market will prevail.

Inflation in general is bad, but the opposite, deflation is much worse. With deflation people will wait until "tomorrow" when prices will fall, causing prices to fall even more, causing people to delay their purchases even longer. This results in a decreased level of economic activity.

Inflation needs to be kept at a low level but not so low that deflation is a threat.

When was the last time you saw people wait when the new iPhones come out. I swear the people are taking their disability checks and running full sprint to the Apple store to wait in line for 12 hours.

ShakyhandsBTCer

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It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin

Quote from: wenben on June 25, 2014, 09:18:21 PM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 15, 2014, 02:38:00 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on June 15, 2014, 07:35:31 AM

As the public discovers that the current system is unsustainable (if they do) you will hear about paying back or at least tapering (expanding the money+debt supply less than that other political fraction would have done, had they won the election).

But both is out of the question really. It is not possible to taper (reducing the rate of expansion), and it is not possible to increase the interest rate.

Look for tapering talk, and at the same time covert debt expansion. Fake companies issuing bonds, loans parked in bad banks. New forms of securities issued. Government guarantees. Implicit government guaranties. Even a political statement like we have to stop global warning increases lending and thus the money+debt supply.

They have already started to taper the rate of QE.

The FED had increased interest rate before and will do it again eventually

To keep the rate low, the fed needs to keep buying up unsustainable amount of debt. One only has to observe the interest rate to see if they actually taper rather than sing a good song.

There are other forces behind interest rates besides the rate at which the Fed purchases bonds

wenben

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Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 15, 2014, 02:38:00 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on June 15, 2014, 07:35:31 AM

As the public discovers that the current system is unsustainable (if they do) you will hear about paying back or at least tapering (expanding the money+debt supply less than that other political fraction would have done, had they won the election).

But both is out of the question really. It is not possible to taper (reducing the rate of expansion), and it is not possible to increase the interest rate.

Look for tapering talk, and at the same time covert debt expansion. Fake companies issuing bonds, loans parked in bad banks. New forms of securities issued. Government guarantees. Implicit government guaranties. Even a political statement like we have to stop global warning increases lending and thus the money+debt supply.

They have already started to taper the rate of QE.

The FED had increased interest rate before and will do it again eventually

To keep the rate low, the fed needs to keep buying up unsustainable amount of debt. One only has to observe the interest rate to see if they actually taper rather than sing a good song.

Topic: Quantitative Easing (Read 6700 times)