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Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 36. (Read 96804 times)

56k
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
Alright everybody, here's the deal. I'm the journalist behind the CryptoCoinsNews article about BA responding to the accusations we received in an anonymous news tip. Since then, I've been tipped on a lot of other happenings in the BA world that sound malicious.

I'm on mobile, and for some reason can't post the article link. Excellent. If you want to look it up, it's on CCN.

So I did the digging, found truth to the accusations, and reached out to BA for response. They responded, so I printed it. If you all notice, I did not take sides. I presented each side, laid everything out on the table (including pictures and facts) and printed their response.

BA did not trick me. They simply addressed the accusations. But some people may have took CCNs printing of that to be taking a side, and that side is BA. That's not the case.

I need proof. I need something tangible and solid. There's a lot of people here making a lot of claims, that sound really feasible, but I have no facts to print. Submit news tips to CCN with proof, and I'll print it. You want BA's bad side to be shown? Show it to me, with hard evidence. That's what I need to print a story.


Your asking for proof . What proof exactly be specific cause all the proof you need is on here and there own company forum . You have customers who have been waiting since last year for what they bought. You have safety issues that you already have proof of . You have customers asking for refunds and not receiving them . If you go back and just look at there own company stated time lines of self imposed dates and the updates that they did give that they didn't adhere to the red flags should be popping from everywhere . Don't know what you expected to find here but you yourself have to admit you opened a hornets nest now why would that happen if everything was on the up and up with black arrow. I would also like to add why do you even think someone tipped you guys off . The burden of proof and truth lies on Black Arrow not the people they have scammed for huge sums of their hard earned money . You were handed a story that some would dream of getting and you want the victims to do your job and write it for you use your skills and contacts and go were we can't like the factory or maybe you should just try ordering or maybe get the information of a customer and act on there behalf and see what kind of service you receive . Asking the suspect if your guilty and taking his word for it yes that's how it works nothing to see here move along all is fine .
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
I need proof. I need something tangible and solid. There's a lot of people here making a lot of claims, that sound really feasible, but I have no facts to print. Submit news tips to CCN with proof, and I'll print it. You want BA's bad side to be shown? Show it to me, with hard evidence. That's what I need to print a story.

What proof can people that haven't received a miner give you? There are plenty of proofs of miners catching fire and proofs of deleted forum posts available around here.

Bingo. That is exactly what I'm dealing with. I have a horde of people making possibly feasible allegations, but they can't provide proof because they physically have none. Then I have Black Arrow defending against those allegations, but they can't really provide proof either, making this a big "he said she said" battle.

My back is against a wall here, and I'm getting blamed for "taking the side of Black Arrow."

The only hard evidence I've published is the miner catching fire. They had pictures. Those were published, and I don't think anyone has any doubt in their mind that miner caught fire. So that's a start, but that's all I've got.

newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
You should talk to this guy about the units catching fire:

http://ecointalk.net/user/1724-cendav/

He is the actual guy from the screenshots, and he will confirm there was a fire, and not just a 'malfunctioning device'. This was also 'confirmed' by BA on that same forum, and of course these posts have later been removed


Alright everybody, here's the deal. I'm the journalist behind the CryptoCoinsNews article about BA responding to the accusations we received in an anonymous news tip. Since then, I've been tipped on a lot of other happenings in the BA world that sound malicious.

I'm on mobile, and for some reason can't post the article link. Excellent. If you want to look it up, it's on CCN.

So I did the digging, found truth to the accusations, and reached out to BA for response. They responded, so I printed it. If you all notice, I did not take sides. I presented each side, laid everything out on the table (including pictures and facts) and printed their response.

BA did not trick me. They simply addressed the accusations. But some people may have took CCNs printing of that to be taking a side, and that side is BA. That's not the case.

I need proof. I need something tangible and solid. There's a lot of people here making a lot of claims, that sound really feasible, but I have no facts to print. Submit news tips to CCN with proof, and I'll print it. You want BA's bad side to be shown? Show it to me, with hard evidence. That's what I need to print a story.


newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
I don't know what proof you need, you can find it here all over the place.

I can provide you with original order and payment confirmation, confirmation for refund, and their last email stating that they wont refund, because they are out of money

Do you consider that proof?

I need proof. I need something tangible and solid. There's a lot of people here making a lot of claims, that sound really feasible, but I have no facts to print. Submit news tips to CCN with proof, and I'll print it. You want BA's bad side to be shown? Show it to me, with hard evidence. That's what I need to print a story.

What proof can people that haven't received a miner give you? There are plenty of proofs of miners catching fire and proofs of deleted forum posts available around here.
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
I read somewhere this is about X2 and X1, I'm a X3 Batch 1 customer, can I get in as well?

update on lawsuit:

reposted here


"All,
 
I have about 50 users so far who've sent details in reply to my posts here, and another 50 or so from bitcointalk.org
So far, i have orders recorded at roughly 1 million usd still outstanding in one form or another.
 
By the end of this week i should have enough to present the the legal team so they can start to construct the case to present to the court Smiley
Any of you who still wish to add your name to the list, please drop me a mail at [email protected]
 
Again, this is direct orders place with BA and not with resellers for Batch 1 and Batch 2"




anyone still looking to get on this contact him here:



"Please send to [email protected] the following details:
 
Order date
Rough figure on how much was spent ( please do not supply order numbers yet..this will be a job for the legals to obtain directly from you )
Contact details ( Email will suffice at this stage )
Brief paragraph outlining steps you have taken to resolve issue with BA directly ( i.e. direct communication, complaint to consumer council, local better business bureau, local state senator etc.. )
Expected resolution that would satisfy you ( i.e. full refund, delivery of goods etc )
 
Bticz"



He also has a thread on this forum

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8710397

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
I need proof. I need something tangible and solid. There's a lot of people here making a lot of claims, that sound really feasible, but I have no facts to print. Submit news tips to CCN with proof, and I'll print it. You want BA's bad side to be shown? Show it to me, with hard evidence. That's what I need to print a story.

What proof can people that haven't received a miner give you? There are plenty of proofs of miners catching fire and proofs of deleted forum posts available around here.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
update on lawsuit:

reposted here


"All,
 
I have about 50 users so far who've sent details in reply to my posts here, and another 50 or so from bitcointalk.org
So far, i have orders recorded at roughly 1 million usd still outstanding in one form or another.
 
By the end of this week i should have enough to present the the legal team so they can start to construct the case to present to the court Smiley
Any of you who still wish to add your name to the list, please drop me a mail at [email protected]
 
Again, this is direct orders place with BA and not with resellers for Batch 1 and Batch 2"




anyone still looking to get on this contact him here:



"Please send to [email protected] the following details:
 
Order date
Rough figure on how much was spent ( please do not supply order numbers yet..this will be a job for the legals to obtain directly from you )
Contact details ( Email will suffice at this stage )
Brief paragraph outlining steps you have taken to resolve issue with BA directly ( i.e. direct communication, complaint to consumer council, local better business bureau, local state senator etc.. )
Expected resolution that would satisfy you ( i.e. full refund, delivery of goods etc )
 
Bticz"



He also has a thread on this forum

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8710397
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
Alright everybody, here's the deal. I'm the journalist behind the CryptoCoinsNews article about BA responding to the accusations we received in an anonymous news tip. Since then, I've been tipped on a lot of other happenings in the BA world that sound malicious.

I'm on mobile, and for some reason can't post the article link. Excellent. If you want to look it up, it's on CCN.

So I did the digging, found truth to the accusations, and reached out to BA for response. They responded, so I printed it. If you all notice, I did not take sides. I presented each side, laid everything out on the table (including pictures and facts) and printed their response.

BA did not trick me. They simply addressed the accusations. But some people may have took CCNs printing of that to be taking a side, and that side is BA. That's not the case.

I need proof. I need something tangible and solid. There's a lot of people here making a lot of claims, that sound really feasible, but I have no facts to print. Submit news tips to CCN with proof, and I'll print it. You want BA's bad side to be shown? Show it to me, with hard evidence. That's what I need to print a story.

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Great to see all these posts back; I really wasn't looking forward to copying/pasting ~300 posts. Thanks again Theymos!
jr. member
Activity: 40
Merit: 10
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
These posts were deleted from this thread at some point, mostly by blackarrow.

Thank you!
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
people are also asking about the proper CE markings for Black Arrow's products and their power supply supplier on that page.

they are deleting many of those posts and not responding to those direct questions there or on their forum, where people are also asking.

the thread is shrinking again.  wtf is up with these people I have to wonder.

hiding evidence from law enforcement and/or lawyers/consumer groups?  trying to hoodwink investors on those chips they are trying to get people to invest in?  concerned about bad publicity during the btc conference? 

the whole thing borders on psychotic.

BA is pruning the threads (300 at this point) to try to hide all the information that can be used against them in court and to hide all this info from anyone looking to try to get info/research them while they try to sell old/new stuff.

Can someone please create a new forum and post all the historical data, or PM me an address where I can access it on a non-BA moderated source?


Based on the incorrect Labeling, selling customer data, refusing refunds and the rest...   
I've contacted a class action litigation firm and will be posting more information shortly.
I'm checking with them to see what I need to post here (I'm assuming they'll just setup a new contact mail or phone number or something) and I'll be posting that this week along with any other info they give me.
DO NOT return your power supplies if BA asks you to,.. I'm assuming those are now **evidence**




Hi, this thread was put up by Theymos and contains all posts deleted by Black Arrow from their moderated thread.  Their thread is still up, but they are pruning it with some regularity.
jr. member
Activity: 40
Merit: 10
people are also asking about the proper CE markings for Black Arrow's products and their power supply supplier on that page.

they are deleting many of those posts and not responding to those direct questions there or on their forum, where people are also asking.

the thread is shrinking again.  wtf is up with these people I have to wonder.

hiding evidence from law enforcement and/or lawyers/consumer groups?  trying to hoodwink investors on those chips they are trying to get people to invest in?  concerned about bad publicity during the btc conference? 

the whole thing borders on psychotic.

BA is pruning the threads (300 at this point) to try to hide all the information that can be used against them in court and to hide all this info from anyone looking to try to get info/research them while they try to sell old/new stuff.

Can someone please create a new forum and post all the historical data, or PM me an address where I can access it on a non-BA moderated source?


Based on the incorrect Labeling, selling customer data, refusing refunds and the rest...   
I've contacted a class action litigation firm and will be posting more information shortly.
I'm checking with them to see what I need to post here (I'm assuming they'll just setup a new contact mail or phone number or something) and I'll be posting that this week along with any other info they give me.
DO NOT return your power supplies if BA asks you to,.. I'm assuming those are now **evidence**
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
people are also asking about the proper CE markings for Black Arrow's products and their power supply supplier on that page.

they are deleting many of those posts and not responding to those direct questions there or on their forum, where people are also asking.

the thread is shrinking again.  wtf is up with these people I have to wonder.

hiding evidence from law enforcement and/or lawyers/consumer groups?  trying to hoodwink investors on those chips they are trying to get people to invest in?  concerned about bad publicity during the btc conference? 

the whole thing borders on psychotic.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
From the modded thread.  I figure they will delete this eventually

What I love with BA, either WE customers are guilty, either their providers ... I already mentioned X-1s giving electrical shocks... and the CE sign on the PSUs is the China Export sign, not the CE one !!!

The China Export mark is apparently a misconception, what I suspect these supplies have is a counterfeit Conformité Européenne mark. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking#China_Export

The X1 PSU definitely has an incorrect CE mark as seen here:-

(screenshot from http://youtu.be/KtxVxqPmN7k?t=2m50s at 2:50)

I believe BA were badgering the PSU manufacturers to shrink the physical size of the PSUs which won't help matters. Here we go, 20th February weekly update (remember those?) parts 6a and 6b. http://ecointalk.net/topic/392-black-arrow-weekly-production-update/

Anybody in the US want to get in touch with Underwriters Laboratories? They take a rather dim view of logo misuse and there's a UL Registered Component mark on those power supplies. http://site.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/services/programs/anticounterfeitingoperations/

How are counterfeit goods discovered? And how can companies/individuals report counterfeiting?

UL works with U.S. Customs and other law enforcement agencies to train personnel how to identify counterfeit products. If you have information about counterfeiting activities or suspicious products, please contact the U.S. Customs hotline at 1-800-ITS-FAKE (1-800-487-3253) or UL to issue a report.

ALSO of note (the deeper the rabbit hole goes) there's no FCC declaration on those power supplies, and for import to the US they appear to require one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_Declaration_of_Conformity
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
Has Minersource made any statement regarding the X3's catching fire and the X1's apparently giving electric shocks as a customer stated?
Are they waiting for money from BA before they can send refunds?
sr. member
Activity: 459
Merit: 250
Just in case anyone still believes any of Black Arrow's claims, consider this:

They claim they can't pay out the refunds that they promised (and approved) in March through May of this year because they have already used that money to buy all the parts needed to buy the miners. But as compensation, they urge you to take naked chips instead of the finished miners.

How does that add up?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Quote
Thanks for restoring the comments in here  theymos

I, too, wish to thank theymos for doing this.


Me too.  Thanks Theymos. 
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
I don't know about those other situations, naturally.

In this case they are deleting posts in the middle of a situation where their miners are starting on fire.

http://ecointalk.net/topic/1348-my-x3-caught-fire/

there are two instances reported on their forum of fires.  not smoke, or the smell of ozone. fire in the cases.

they are denying on facebook that this is happening at all. 





as of yesterday someone is reporting on their forum that they weren't even notified.


from ecointalk:

"Chemek, on 07 Sept 2014 - 5:04 PM, said:
Where the fuck is the warning email? My x3 have been running upp to this very moment, and I accidentally went back to the forum to see what's going on. Are you out of your mind?

In sure there or others customers who received their x3 and are still note informed."


their initial sales pitch on this forum included a promise to price match any competitor at time of shipment.  they reiterated that promise several times.   this critical consumer protection element has since been refused.  they initially agreed to refund people's money, some several months ago, and are now refusing.  at this point it seems they have no concern for the safety of people.

they used this forum to solicit business.  they used this forum to make promises to consumers that were material promises in terms of the decision to buy and then broke those promises, they are now seemingly attempting to use this forum to scrub relevant information from their thread that pertains to a serious safety issue.

There are multiple instances of unethical behavior here, IMO, with damages to consumers in the tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars or more.  The latest development is an apparent disregard for the physical safety of the consumer. 

The whole thing is disgusting.



hero member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 783
better everyday ♥
This is pretty repulsive by Black Arrow.  To not only not meet shipping deadlines, lie about compensation, constantly deny any wrongdoing, use customers preorder money to fund other operations like their Scrypt product, ship miners way off their proposed performance mark, ship faulty fire hazard X-3s, now this!

Deleting over 100 pages of comments to try and cover up the long con...conniving bastards.
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