Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 34. (Read 96804 times)

No, i haven't mentioned MS or Ethos or anyone else except BA directly. The trouble with a law suit is actually pinning in on someone. BA are the root of all with this, so if MS and Ethos have issues with BA they need to deal with that on their own.

In the US, you need to take it up with the local against MS
In the UK i know about and the distance selling regulations protect consumers here against online orders... but i've never had to do this before, but Ethos is a UK LTD company so poor stuart is liable to cop it big time if you go that route.. i know it's not his fault directly, but he's in it just as much as us really, he took a gamble, it didn't pay off.. so his customer either wait with him, or take action against him. My beef isn't with him or MS i see them as victims also.

Im only concerned at this stage with Direct order customer....

1. direct orders should have received before resellers
2. direct orders should be treated better than resellers
3. direct orders took a larger risk as we ordered directly from China

Did you mention Minersource their reseller, a lot of people who purchased a Blackarrow X1 or X3 are waiting for a refund from Minersource for months including me.

Yeah ! Psychotic monkeys ! BA should definetely be turned off ! They have hurted too much people with their scam ! And they want war...

this is a transcript of my last conversation with Black arrow over on their forum PM system

I complained about them deleting my posts and it went on for a while......

I'm not sure how this is going to look format wise, but im posting from a word doc i've been copying stuff into.. so it might be a bit wonky and there's post quotes so some places its duplicated... but you'll get the drift.





If you do not want people to complain, dont give them things to complain about!
 
As i explained to david, i'm taking you guys down. You stole money from me. period.
 
I am arranging a class action against you and my objective is to stop you from doing this again to anyone else.
 
i've cross posted to another site, so they will see, and the wider community will see.
 
I have 16 years IT infrastructure experience, and manage projects over $400 million and i have never ever in my life come across a bunch of amateurs like you. to my shame i was taken in by your promises, but the delays are unacceptable now .
 
I've asked, like others for a refund, and you illegally withhold the funds against China's laws!
 
Well now you are going to find out what its like on the other side, expect to hear from my Lawyers   
 
I hope you enjoy living in interesting times
blackarrow
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Sent 07 September 2014 - 12:50 PM
Dear Bitcz,
 
If you are our customer, please let me know what your order number is so I can try to help you.
 
Regards!
bitcz
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Sent 08 September 2014 - 10:14 AM
My Order number is #2468
 
If your going to process a refund, explain how your going to do this
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Sent 08 September 2014 - 05:20 PM
Dear Customer,
 
A refund is unavailable due to lack of funds.
We have not stole your money and we have followed the agreed contract.
I can try to ship your order soon (after the PSUs are fixed) if you agree to stop this crusade. Please let me know if you agree.
 
Regards!












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Sent 09 September 2014 - 07:11 AM
No.
Refund on your own or I will obtain via courts. You have no other options now. Refind me fiat or refund me in btc.
I have 102 others customers details and each day I get another 20 or so.. by end of this wekk I will have enough to start. this is just under 1 million usd.... so next step is to pass to my lawyers and let them start contacting the customers and getting the details they need... once they have sufficient grounds to lodge the case.. your done for.
bitcz
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Sent 09 September 2014 - 05:13 PM
http://www.cryptocoi...nts/#post-42223
 
So... how long before this brings a surge of new people to my 'crusade' as you put it ?
 
I think your outgunned, outmassed, out of luck and very soon... out of time
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Sent 10 September 2014 - 07:08 AM
If only you could see the spreadsheet ive made to capture all the customers who have contacted me... it makes for easy reading..very informative.. I can even make geo pivot tables to show the courts how many countries are involved. My lawyers are really going to be happy with this as its just made their jobs 1000% easier... such is the power of the internet... bringing the world together

 
Have a nice day
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Sent Today, 12:41 PM
So,
 
no reply, no action, pretty much what i expected
 
I am sending my data to the lawyers by end of today 17:30 to be precise. Once they have it, they will proceed and act upon it 
Once i do however, it will be purely down to them to force you in court to refund me my money, as well as the others who have joined the battle against you.
 
Please do not think this is an idle threat   you have limited time now ... in fact it's the last chance you have today to make amends... that stands currently at about 900k USD.. im sure thats going to wipe you out as you have no money in the bank so you'll have to liquidate some BTC to do that... oh.. thats right, Chinese law says you can't process BTC in country so this means you'll have to close down... unles you break the law by processing BTC in china   then your up for double trouble not only for breaking the law, but also the wallet will show transactions which everyone else will see and cause further trouble for you.... i wonder how quickly you can respond when the police arrive at your doors to shut you down.
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 01:07 PM
Dear Customer,
 
Would you like to cancel your order? If yes, we can prepare a form and send it to you to sign.
 
Regards!
 
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Sent Today, 01:13 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 1:07 PM, said:
Dear Customer,
 
Would you like to cancel your order? If yes, we can prepare a form and send it to you to sign.
 
Regards!
 


I would like to cancel my order and get a full refund yes !!!


blackarrow


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Sent Today, 01:22 PM
Have you read the terms and conditions?
 
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 01:26 PM
If English is not your native language, please let me know in what language you need this translated so you can understand:
 
11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.
9.1 The Products are delivered to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.
 
 








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Sent Today, 03:01 PM
your terms and conditions do not supersede Chinese law.
 
 
http://www.china-bri...ection-law.html
 
 
Retailers are now required to accept goods for return within 7 days of purchase unless agreed otherwise;   - I have not received goods....
 
For online and other types of delivery purchases, consumers are not required to provide a reason for returns - I have stated my reason which are plain and evident as you have not lived up to your end of the expected delivery date. any court will find i have been more than accommodating
 
Greater restrictions now apply to retailers’ collection and use of consumer data. - you have release personal information to a 3rd party without my consent, or you did not safe guard my details when the information was stolen.. which ever you decide to use when countering.
 
also
 
http://www.lehmanlaw...protection.html
 
You may also choose any of these legal laws in China and read through them, these are what my case against you will be based upon.
 
So please, test me   or refund me, there are only two options at this stage.
you now have 2.5 hours remaining to refund my money
 
bitcz










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Sent Today, 03:11 PM
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 03:13 PM
Dear Customer,
 
Your order was placed and paid months ago. You have been given all the time required to change your mind.
If you proceed with the cancellation, we can accept your already manufactured miner as a gift to us but no refund will be issued.
 
Regards!





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Sent Today, 03:14 PM
Dear Customer,
 
Your order was placed and paid months ago. You have been given all the time required to change your mind.
If you proceed with the cancellation, we can accept your already manufactured miner as a gift to us but no refund will be issued.
 
Regards!
 
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 03:15 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:11 PM, said:
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
 
Correction: Currently we you a miner. If you cancel your order, we will owe you nothing.
You have agreed that no refund will be available in the terms and conditions.
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bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:28 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:15 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:11 PM, said:
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
 
Correction: Currently we you a miner. If you cancel your order, we will owe you nothing.
You have agreed that no refund will be available in the terms and conditions.
 



 
Under Chinese law you cannot sell something and then not deliver. in fact, international law states the same
You have not delivered the miner that i ordered 04 Dec 2013 in fact on your website.. the description has changed since i ordered.... it also states in stock.. clearly not as then people would be getting them whole sale not in dribs and drabs
 
you cannot avoid the painful truth
 
you failed to deliver the goods when i ordered them they were slated for delivery in Feb 2014
http://web.archive.o...ospero-x-3.html
 
you changes to the T & C's after i purchased the goods therefore you new terms and conditions do not apply to me as i did not accept them
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:29 PM
you now have 2 hours
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:33 PM
do you see what's happening here?
 
you wriggle and writhe to get off the hook, but all your doing is wasting your time.
I've paid for a lawyer, so i have nothing to loose... if it costs me £3000 to put you in court... i still get back more than if i let you string me along for the next few months and then some and i put you out of business and force you to close shop.
 
ever been to prison?
 
Chinese law also states anyone who willingly knew of the scam is also guilty... this means anyone who's replied to the forums, all the engineers, the staff and logistics people... maybe even some of your suppliers... who knows...











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Sent Today, 03:41 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:28 PM, said:
 
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:15 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:11 PM, said:
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
 
Correction: Currently we you a miner. If you cancel your order, we will owe you nothing.
You have agreed that no refund will be available in the terms and conditions.
 
 
Under Chinese law you cannot sell something and then not deliver. in fact, international law states the same
You have not delivered the miner that i ordered 04 Dec 2013 in fact on your website.. the description has changed since i ordered.... it also states in stock.. clearly not as then people would be getting them whole sale not in dribs and drabs
 
you cannot avoid the painful truth
 
you failed to deliver the goods when i ordered them they were slated for delivery in Feb 2014
http://web.archive.o...ospero-x-3.html
 
you changes to the T & C's after i purchased the goods therefore you new terms and conditions do not apply to me as i did not accept them
 
 
 
We disagree with your opinion and we believe that our contract will be upheld by any court of law. In order to avoid wasted time on both sides, we ask you to wait few more days until we get the answer from CE for the power supplies and we'll ship your order.
 
We have not  changed the terms and conditions since we opened our store. They were always the same and we have daily backups of the server to prove it.
 
If you take us to court and we win, we will not send you any compensation and we will no longer offer you any exchange for ASICs for your miner as none of these are agreed options in our contract.
 
Should you win the case, there will be no money to get from us as we have none.
 
If you don't want your miner, we think that your best bet is to sell it on eBay.
 
We wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
 
Regards!
 
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:43 PM
Law of the People's Republic of China on Protection of the Rights and Interests of the Consumers - 1994
 
 
Chapter III Obligations of the Operators
 
Article 16
The operators shall, in providing the consumers with commodities or services, fulfill their obligations in accordance with the provisions of the Product Quality Law of the People's Republic of China and other relevant laws and regulations.
Where there is an agreement between the consumer and the operator, obligations shall be fulfilled according to the agreement, but the agreement of two parties may not violate the provisions of laws and regulations.
 
- chinese law wins
 
 
Article 19
The operators shall provide true to fact information about commodities or services to the consumers and may not make misleading false publicity.
The operators shall make true to fact and clear answers on inquiry of the consumers on the quality and utilization method of the commodities or services provided.
 
- you failed to advise, or communicate when asked by the consumer base
 
 
Article 24
The operators may not make unfair or unreasonable regulations against the consumers in such forms as form contract, notice, statement or shop poster, or diminish or waive their due civil responsibility for infringing the consumers' lawful rights and interests.
 
- chinese law wins again... your recent T&C is not binding to me and you are obliged to refund
 
 
 
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:49 PM
i don't care about the PSU
I don't care to wait either, but i will wait until 17:30 GMT as that was what i promised... and i keep my promise
 
if i send a copy of this to my lawyer as well, they will then also ask the court to accelerate the case to cater for the fact that you are now trying to coerce me into accepting a situation that should not be.
 
I will urge the lawyers to seek immediate injunction against you enforced by law and force to enter your property and shut you down.
i don't care if your shut down, but i can assure you everything will be seized and sold off
 
 
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:58 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:41 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:28 PM, said:
 
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:15 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:11 PM, said:
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
 
Correction: Currently we you a miner. If you cancel your order, we will owe you nothing.
You have agreed that no refund will be available in the terms and conditions.
 
 
Under Chinese law you cannot sell something and then not deliver. in fact, international law states the same
You have not delivered the miner that i ordered 04 Dec 2013 in fact on your website.. the description has changed since i ordered.... it also states in stock.. clearly not as then people would be getting them whole sale not in dribs and drabs
 
you cannot avoid the painful truth
 
you failed to deliver the goods when i ordered them they were slated for delivery in Feb 2014
http://web.archive.o...ospero-x-3.html
 
you changes to the T & C's after i purchased the goods therefore you new terms and conditions do not apply to me as i did not accept them
 
 
 
We disagree with your opinion and we believe that our contract will be upheld by any court of law. In order to avoid wasted time on both sides, we ask you to wait few more days until we get the answer from CE for the power supplies and we'll ship your order.
 
We have not  changed the terms and conditions since we opened our store. They were always the same and we have daily backups of the server to prove it.
 
If you take us to court and we win, we will not send you any compensation and we will no longer offer you any exchange for ASICs for your miner as none of these are agreed options in our contract.
 
Should you win the case, there will be no money to get from us as we have none.
 
If you don't want your miner, we think that your best bet is to sell it on eBay.
 
We wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
 
Regards!
 
 
Wow.. i cannot believe you actually do not see the changes.
On your main x-3 sales page.. you have updated it with:
 
>>>> We are still manufacturing this item, it will not be shipped immediately <<<<
NEW, NON-REFUNDABLE
even though it states in stock.
 
Which... is different to the one i ordered from as the web cache proves it as it stated delivery in feb 2014.
 
 
anyone with a gram of sense wouldn't touch a product that says non-refundable and says we're still manufacturing.
Good luck with defending that one. But thanks, that just adds more weight to my case 
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 04:05 PM
We have never made false publicity nor provided false information. The date supplied was based on our best estimation at that time. We believe that we have informed you very clearly that this is a pre-order, the date is for information purposes only and we will be spending your money to make your order and no refund will be issued. You have read, agreed and signed the contract.
 
Quote
11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.
 
 
The contract was very reasonable and we have merely passed on the contract conditions from our vendors to the customer. Without these conditions, no Foundry and no ASIC designer would have manufactured a chip for us or for you. No Foundry refunds a wafer already started. No engineer or engineering company will refund you for the work that they have already done if it is up to the specifications. We offered you a reasonable interval to cancel your pre-order, and we have kept the customers updated all the time with our progress.  Due to NDA we cannot quote their exact terms but we assure you that they were more harsh than the terms that we have passed onto our customers: Should we cancel the contract we would have had to pay fines for wasting their time.
 
Unfortunately, problems sometime appear during development and we have informed you that this is possible in the terms and conditions as well:
 
Quote
The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.
 
 
We would have been negligent if we would not have tried to solve them. Not only that we solved the problems but we have done everything humanly possible to deliver the products as fast as possible, we put in an enormous amount of extra hours during week and weekends. Without this effort you wouldn't have had a miner to receive not even today.
 
 
More than this, you are looking at laws made for goods already in stock, not for pre-orders. We would kindly ask to do a better research on legislation and look for the laws drawn for goods made to order.
 
 
 
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blackarrow
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Sent Today, 04:08 PM
Quote
 
Wow.. i cannot believe you actually do not see the changes.
On your main x-3 sales page.. you have updated it with:
 
>>>> We are still manufacturing this item, it will not be shipped immediately <<<<
NEW, NON-REFUNDABLE
even though it states in stock.
 
Which... is different to the one i ordered from as the web cache proves it as it stated delivery in feb 2014.
 
 
anyone with a gram of sense wouldn't touch a product that says non-refundable and says we're still manufacturing.
Good luck with defending that one. But thanks, that just adds more weight to my case 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
This page is not "terms and conditions". This is a page made for sale of this product and only applies to you if you place a new order.
 
The terms and conditions are here: http://www.blackarro...tore/legal.html. This page was never changed. If it would have been changed the terms and condition published on the date of order would have applied. However, you do not need to worry about that as it has never been changed.
 
 
 
 
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bitcz
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Sent Today, 04:13 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:05 PM, said:
We have never made false publicity nor provided false information. The date supplied was based on our best estimation at that time. We believe that we have informed you very clearly that this is a pre-order, the date is for information purposes only and we will be spending your money to make your order and no refund will be issued. You have read, agreed and signed the contract.
 
Quote
11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.
 
 
The contract was very reasonable and we have merely passed on the contract conditions from our vendors to the customer. Without these conditions, no Foundry and no ASIC designer would have manufactured a chip for us or for you. No Foundry refunds a wafer already started. No engineer or engineering company will refund you for the work that they have already done if it is up to the specifications. We offered you a reasonable interval to cancel your pre-order, and we have kept the customers updated all the time with our progress.  Due to NDA we cannot quote their exact terms but we assure you that they were more harsh than the terms that we have passed onto our customers: Should we cancel the contract we would have had to pay fines for wasting their time.
 
Unfortunately, problems sometime appear during development and we have informed you that this is possible in the terms and conditions as well:
 
Quote
The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.
 
 
We would have been negligent if we would not have tried to solve them. Not only that we solved the problems but we have done everything humanly possible to deliver the products as fast as possible, we put in an enormous amount of extra hours during week and weekends. Without this effort you wouldn't have had a miner to receive not even today.
 
 
More than this, you are looking at laws made for goods already in stock, not for pre-orders. We would kindly ask to do a better research on legislation and look for the laws drawn for goods made to order.
 
Chinese law makes no distinction between pre-order and in stock goods or services 
 
i ordered from you, not the foundry, not the case manufacturer nor the PSU company, I ordered from you Black Arrow
 
So my sales contract is with you. I paid you money for a device to be delivered in Feb 2014.. i could accept as reasonable 1 or 2 months, even three any court would agree that's more than reasonable...but 7 months !!!!! and still no end in sight?
 
And selling dangerous goods as well... the legal implications on that are pretty clear.. you might get away with " we didn't know they were dangerous" and the court might believe you, but BA as a company... will be closed down by the courts as you are not only scamming and not informing the consumer base when asked for simple bits of information, but also with holding unfairly money in the form of BTC that can be used to refund. that will be lost to the courts.. so i doubt it will see the light of day... but the goods and assets will be stripped and sold to pay your debts.
 
1 hour 15 mins left
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Sent Today, 04:17 PM
its not going away... so don't believe that im just going to give up.
 
You owe me money, i will see it back in my hand by your actions or i will see it back in my hands by the courts actions and a lot of your guys in prison as well most likely.
 
PRC does take a dim view of their international image as a economic power.
What your doing is harming that and they will punish those responsible harshly.
 
is my refund worth that?
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Sent Today, 04:23 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:13 PM, said:
 
Chinese law makes no distinction between pre-order and in stock goods or services 
 
i ordered from you, not the foundry, not the case manufacturer nor the PSU company, I ordered from you Black Arrow
 
So my sales contract is with you. I paid you money for a device to be delivered in Feb 2014.. i could accept as reasonable 1 or 2 months, even three any court would agree that's more than reasonable...but 7 months !!!!! and still no end in sight?
 
And selling dangerous goods as well... the legal implications on that are pretty clear.. you might get away with " we didn't know they were dangerous" and the court might believe you, but BA as a company... will be closed down by the courts as you are not only scamming and not informing the consumer base when asked for simple bits of information, but also with holding unfairly money in the form of BTC that can be used to refund. that will be lost to the courts.. so i doubt it will see the light of day... but the goods and assets will be stripped and sold to pay your debts.
 
1 hour 15 mins left
 




 
Yes, it does make a distinction. If your solicitor informed you that it doesn't do a distinction, you should find a better one as they're only up to get your money.
 
You mention 3000GBP to take us to court. I'm not sure how you got these numbers as an injunction should cost you more than $10 million dollars due to the size of our business.
 
A reasonable delay is as long as it is reasonable. If we went into holiday or started another project it would not have been reasonable. We worked all the time on this project and the delay is fully justified.
 
The delivery is in sight and would have been already completed if not of the problems with the power supplies. If you don't want the PSU we can ship you on Monday.
 
And now you go on with selling dangerous goods which is way offtopic. Here is a link to help you understand what these are: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dangerous+goods
 
This is my last reply today. Good day.
bitcz
















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Sent Today, 04:28 PM
Here's what will happen...
 
 
What i will be doing is my normal daily life... i will visit a McDonalds when i choose, i will got to a pub with friends, i will come home in the evening and play xbox or watch some TV, and still have money in my pocket and my freedom
 
All i have to do is pay the lawyers... which i can as it's really cheap to do
 
What you will be doing is working long hours looking over your shoulder.. wondering is that knock on the door the police or a delivery or both?
when the knock comes you'll walk to the door with a sense of fear as you need the job to pay for your life over there... there is no comparison between us, so i won't try, but you will wonder when an official puts papers in your hand to search the property with police to take names, and addresses, and maybe take you to police stations to be interviewed is this what Bitcz was warning me about?
Even been in a police cell? i understand its better than a bangkok cell, but not by much.
 
Everything in the office will be tagged and recorded, lawyers will get fat and rich, but ill get my money plus legal fee's reimbursed from the proceeds of the auctions of the stock.
 
You will be out of a job and your colleges will be out of a job and once the witch hunt starts it get serious.
charges are brought against you and anyone who's senior.. then they work their way downwards... to the little guys... and maybe.. just maybe.. the guy who sweeps up at the end of the shifts gets away with just a warning as he locks up an empty office stripped of everything...
 
then a few weeks later, i get a letter from my lawyers telling me the final account, how much i owe them, how much was recovered, we work out and deduct this and that and then say good bye.
 
 
 
blackarrow









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Sent Today, 04:33 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:28 PM, said:
Here's what will happen...
 
 
 
Here is what will really happen:
 
You will pay the solicitors and you'll never see that money back.
 
You will receive your miner in the following days (not because you have paid your solicitor). If you choose not to accept it, we will inform DHL that we don't want it back as it is yours and your refusal means that they can destroy it.
 
The end.
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Sent Today, 04:35 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:23 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:13 PM, said:
 
Chinese law makes no distinction between pre-order and in stock goods or services 
 
i ordered from you, not the foundry, not the case manufacturer nor the PSU company, I ordered from you Black Arrow
 
So my sales contract is with you. I paid you money for a device to be delivered in Feb 2014.. i could accept as reasonable 1 or 2 months, even three any court would agree that's more than reasonable...but 7 months !!!!! and still no end in sight?
 
And selling dangerous goods as well... the legal implications on that are pretty clear.. you might get away with " we didn't know they were dangerous" and the court might believe you, but BA as a company... will be closed down by the courts as you are not only scamming and not informing the consumer base when asked for simple bits of information, but also with holding unfairly money in the form of BTC that can be used to refund. that will be lost to the courts.. so i doubt it will see the light of day... but the goods and assets will be stripped and sold to pay your debts.
 
1 hour 15 mins left
 
 
Yes, it does make a distinction. If your solicitor informed you that it doesn't do a distinction, you should find a better one as they're only up to get your money.
 
You mention 3000GBP to take us to court. I'm not sure how you got these numbers as an injunction should cost you more than $10 million dollars due to the size of our business.
 
A reasonable delay is as long as it is reasonable. If we went into holiday or started another project it would not have been reasonable. We worked all the time on this project and the delay is fully justified.
 
The delivery is in sight and would have been already completed if not of the problems with the power supplies. If you don't want the PSU we can ship you on Monday.
 
And now you go on with selling dangerous goods which is way offtopic. Here is a link to help you understand what these are: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dangerous+goods
 
This is my last reply today. Good day.
 
 
oh really 
this should be a laugh... your probably talking about our version of public liability insurance which normally covers business for death and injury and wotnot on site or under the companies direction.
 
this doesn't absolve you of wrong doing in the eyes of the law 
You have committed offences against the PRC, so once they are brought to light, nothing i can do will stop it. in the uk i could halt a lawyer right up to the point when they open their mouth and speak to the judge 
 
In PRC courts, laws are less about equality and more about what the PRC wants. Granted they have relaxed over the years and are almost humane... almost.
 
If you ship the units to me they will be rejected
if you deny my rights under the PRC consumer laws you shall be prosecuted.. not just by me, but over 100 others... at the same time...
The consumer council provides us the rights to go after you in a class action status 
 
many of us have already applied and gotten confirmation from them, including myself, that they are investigating you. Ignore them.. please do as it just gives me more to work with.
 
55 minutes








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Sent Today, 04:40 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:23 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:13 PM, said:
 
Chinese law makes no distinction between pre-order and in stock goods or services 
 
i ordered from you, not the foundry, not the case manufacturer nor the PSU company, I ordered from you Black Arrow
 
So my sales contract is with you. I paid you money for a device to be delivered in Feb 2014.. i could accept as reasonable 1 or 2 months, even three any court would agree that's more than reasonable...but 7 months !!!!! and still no end in sight?
 
And selling dangerous goods as well... the legal implications on that are pretty clear.. you might get away with " we didn't know they were dangerous" and the court might believe you, but BA as a company... will be closed down by the courts as you are not only scamming and not informing the consumer base when asked for simple bits of information, but also with holding unfairly money in the form of BTC that can be used to refund. that will be lost to the courts.. so i doubt it will see the light of day... but the goods and assets will be stripped and sold to pay your debts.
 
1 hour 15 mins left
 
 
Yes, it does make a distinction. If your solicitor informed you that it doesn't do a distinction, you should find a better one as they're only up to get your money.
 
You mention 3000GBP to take us to court. I'm not sure how you got these numbers as an injunction should cost you more than $10 million dollars due to the size of our business.
 
A reasonable delay is as long as it is reasonable. If we went into holiday or started another project it would not have been reasonable. We worked all the time on this project and the delay is fully justified.
 
The delivery is in sight and would have been already completed if not of the problems with the power supplies. If you don't want the PSU we can ship you on Monday.
 
And now you go on with selling dangerous goods which is way offtopic. Here is a link to help you understand what these are: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dangerous+goods
 
This is my last reply today. Good day.
 
 
2000 hkd is 158 GBP per hour
 
i spend 200 an hour on a hooker for a day and a night and consider myself well serviced for my birthday.
 
guess how many hours £3000 buys me with my lawyer ?
 
and that's just me 


bitcz
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Sent Today, 04:40 PM
50 minutes
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 04:41 PM
This conversation is over.
 
bitcz
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Sent Today, 04:44 PM
ill make it easy for you
 
send me my money in BTC to this address
 
1Ptfqodtgq2Y81fWUQgaNVBysWCpJA8B4p
 
then i stop, i delete my account here, i deleted my account everywhere and you never hear from me again.
I will disappear and not even crow in the forums....
 
fail at this last opportunity and the next few weeks are going to be very very tense for you.. listening for footsteps... squeal of brakes.. is that the police pulling up outside??
 
 
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Sent Today, 04:49 PM
Oh and Alex is in Reading... been some talk about that on the forum... might have to get my local consumer council to look into alex and his address.. maybe get an interview.... if he's not there or its false... the LTD nature of the company is then called into question... more petrol on the fire... courts dissolve the company... but they can only do this once   
 
wonder what the penalty is for falsifying company trading information in PRC ?
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Sent Today, 04:49 PM
40 minutes
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 04:50 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:49 PM, said:
Oh and Alex is in Reading... been some talk about that on the forum... might have to get my local consumer council to look into alex and his address.. maybe get an interview.... if he's not there or its false... the LTD nature of the company is then called into question... more petrol on the fire... courts dissolve the company... but they can only do this once 
 
wonder what the penalty is for falsifying company trading information in PRC ?
 
We have your address. Maybe Alex will pay you a visit and go to the Police station with you.
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Sent Today, 04:56 PM
If he doesn't pay you a visit, please visit our stand in London: http://insidebitcoins.co.uk/
 

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yes please.. i would love that.., we can both go to the local police station in Bromley or Orpington and sit and have a chat with an office from the serious crimes unit. I am absolutely sure they would enjoy the chat and offer us both a tea 
 
debatable which of us would leave the station though?
 
Naah.. no debate... i would, he might after a period of time... as i gather he's also under a warrant for fraud??? Might be interesting to find out how long it takes them to discover who wants him and why... i'd bet no more than an hour.
 
Want to give him my mobile number?  we can arrange a meet at the station and walk in together as friends....
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Sent Today, 05:03 PM
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blackarrow
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Sent Today, 05:07 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 5:01 PM, said:
yes please.. i would love that.., we can both go to the local police station in Bromley or Orpington and sit and have a chat with an office from the serious crimes unit. I am absolutely sure they would enjoy the chat and offer us both a tea 
 
debatable which of us would leave the station though?
 
Naah.. no debate... i would, he might after a period of time... as i gather he's also under a warrant for fraud??? Might be interesting to find out how long it takes them to discover who wants him and why... i'd bet no more than an hour.
 
Want to give him my mobile number?  we can arrange a meet at the station and walk in together as friends....
 
Yes, please let me know your mobile number I will forward it to him.
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Sent Today, 05:08 PM
Xxxxxxxxx – Number given but withheld from this post
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Sent Today, 05:09 PM
is he in the uk now ?
cos i'd love to talk 
 
22 minutes left
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Sent Today, 05:13 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 5:09 PM, said:
is he in the uk now ?
cos i'd love to talk 
 
22 minutes left
 
Not now. He'll be tomorrow.
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Sent Today, 05:16 PM
i look forward to it
 
however 15 minutes and i send the data
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Sent Today, 05:24 PM
6 minutes


bitcz
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Sent Today, 05:32 PM
Submitted
 
See you in court!!
 
well.. i won't personally ( but wish i could ) but hey... smile... your going to make a very brief historical footnote in the bitcoin history books

well.. in 11 minutes i submit data to the lawyers....

i've been having a nice conversation with BA on PM on the other forum and they've wriggled and tried to get out of it....

i've been counting down the time till i submit.. must be driving them bonkers... trying to get a resolution.. but they refuse.. as i expected.


The data i have now... will go to the lawyers who will take god knows how long to go over it.... then they will either email listee's individually or maybe if they are smart, put up a web page that you can visit to submit your final data by or they speak to you directly and ask for telephone numbers copies of invoices etc....i just don't know at this stage... it's not like i've been putting a battle plan together

Just as a procedural question here, is there a certain date that we should resubmit to you by if we don't hear from the lawyers?

My questions above concerning vetting were purely hypothetical and not intended to constitute any kind of allegations, I just thought from a common sense perspective that given how brutal BA's tactics have been, a lot of people are likely to be paranoid about the situation. I actually sent my info several days ago, I figure worst case scenario, what more could BA actually do to hurt me?

I had thought about taking a trip up there myself, but even so, it just might be a registered address and not actually a residential address.

And please, im not getting defensive, i'm just laying out what i see as i see it.

But as i said before, i would gladly take the opportunity to prove to someone who's a bit more local to me, hell, I'll even bring passport, utility bills and receipts from my local Morrison if you like plus i have a south London accent, not a east European one.. but as i said, im doing this to recover from BA, at my expense so far so anyone who comes along for the ride, you bolster my case and you get yours added to it.
If you think i'm a BA shill.. then don't join in. I'll still be using my lawyers to try and force a recovery on BA.

If its correct and they don't have any money in the bank and i get a court order to recover the funds... what will happen?

I'm my experience, if you can't pay your goods are confiscated and sold off to meet your debt. What is that going to mean for all the miners in stock, all the boards all the cases all the chips all the PSU and everything in their building ? They are confiscated to pay their debt. Now maybe China has a different way of handling this sort of thing, and from a totally mercenary point of view, i shouldn't be concerned with others, i should only be concerned with my money they owe me. However, as it serves me, it should serve everyone, but recovery of debts owed to large numbers of people can only be discharged to those named on the legal action.. in the UK anyway... how it works in china.. i don't know... but it's soon to be found out what the process is exactly.

On the other hand, i could have just kept quiet and proceeded with the case to get my money back and not say anything to anyone and all anyone else would know would be that BA would roll up and die and EVERYONE looses , hell you might not even get notification that they've gone down... they don't answer the telephones anyway.

So from my point of view, im trying to be accommodating, im trying to do something for our community... i can lead the horse, but can't force it to drink i think works here.

It's very disturbing that you're getting this defensive over simply suggesting that you need to be vetted in some way to be organizing this kind of action.

The reason London is suspicious is because Alex Sovu is in Reading.

Why would a London location arouse suspicion? over Birmingham or Luton for example?
I live in kent so i'm in london everyday so it makes sense to meet with some folks who are able to meet in London who are affected by this.

Something that Pentax mentioned to me to clear up...

I'm not affiliated with BA. Just want to make that clear. Although you might not believe it.. with just cause or just plain suspicion.. that's ok!

Anything i write here or on the oher forum you have all the right to treat as fake until proven otherwise.... but how can i do this?

Anything i write can be faked.
Anything i post to prove can be fake.
My actions can be seen as being working for some ulterior motive for BA for some punitive actions against anyone foolish enough to sign up.

So, i call for a spokes person to step forward and talk to me offline so i can verify who i am so i can prove to others. If Pentax was to speak to me in person, would you take his word for it? If Jumbly was to speak to me in person would you take his word for it?
If not, how can i prove i am who i say i am and my case is just ?

I'd don't have anything to prove here, im starting this legal action for my own self first off, but when i was thinking about it, it makes more sense to use weight of numbers to force them to do what needs doing.

It's your choice to join or not.
I've already sunk in £500 in legal fees to get this rolling not that you'd believe what i say and to be honest, i don't give a fig either way if you want to call me out or not, those who join in will be included in any case against BA. Anyone who doesn't well.. you either join someone else, go it alone, or pray BA does the right thing. Just remember Lawyers are expensive and they charge by the hour once my time is used up ill add some more funds to pay for extra time, it would be good if some more can be donated to it, but i'm not out right asking for anything, so i'm not trying to scam anyone.  The hourly charge is just over $2000 HKD which is about £158 GBP ... hence why i'm doing a lot of the grunt work first to make sure the lawyers aren't using those hours in gathering and making sense of the data... your data... and even then im asking for non specific information.

And just for the record... this is only for Direct orders to BA for Batch 1 & 2 of the X1 and X3 models of miners.

Bitcz

I would recommend doing something like this as soon as possible, because people need to know that this isn't Black Arrow themselves collecting a list of names of people to target, as well as sidetracking their own legal efforts by convincing them they're involved in a class action. The London location also will arouse suspicion in alot of potential claimants.

I wondered if they had done something like this.   And I think you're right.  All the deletions they've done on mine the last few days have the same basic time stamping.

That's actually funny if that's what they're doing.  Your company is so bad that you have to use a computer bot to scrub information.    lol. 




They can't scrub comments from these articles:

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/black-arrow-bitcoin-mining-battle-whos-telling-truth/#post-42713

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/black-arrow-bitcoin-mining-accused-censoring-negative-comments/

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/black-arrow-minion-14nm-asic-tape-out-setdecember-2014/

How does the "X3 Power supply recall" effect customers who sent Black Arrow additional money at BA's request for X3 "compensation" power supplies?

The "compensation" sounds like the perfect way for BA to profit from off-loading some certified Chinese Export power supplies that fail the real "CE" certification.

I can only hope that BA didn't exploit the points at which the PSU fails certification as an excuse for a delay because mailing incendiary bombs to customers they've just robbed is really um, bad.

The explosions and fire that trigged the recall were caused by the capacitors that BA stated would not be included in the miner. BA had sent out a special email after months of silence to all customers announcing that their miners had capacitors that didn't explode; we joked about it for weeks after. BA also claims the caps serve no function but couldn't remove them because that would cause a delay of "1 day".

Currently i'm not releasing any information publicly until the case is well under way.
I've had what i suspect is a few touches from suspiciously formatted mails asking for information on how and what i'm doing and in the interests of keep the strategy a secret, im not revealing who why what or when until the time is right. For those who've supplied details to me to help build this case, they will be contacted directly by the lawyers office to get more detailed information regarding the case. The reason for this is so that not every tom dick or harry can just lodge a claim, it has to be above board and legal.. otherwise it puts the whole issue in jeopardy.

Look at it this way, im a relatively new guy on the block, but i happen to be caught in the same fly paper as a lot of people. I was pro BA in the early days, but my patience ran out and i don't make a lot of posts of on the ecoin talk forum so i don't have " cred" like some of those guys... but i see talk and lots of it and not enough action.

I'm quite happy to talk with Pentax and see if i can put his mind at rest.. maybe we can work out a calling time or something. I work in london, so if anyone wants to meet for a pint and discuss it well.. im open for that too !

Bitz

Don't buy from blackarrow, they are scammers

MY MESSAGES:

Read   Today at 07:45:03 AM   Deleted Post   Bitcoin Forum   
Read   Today at 08:00:04 AM   Deleted Post   Bitcoin Forum   
Read   Today at 08:30:03 AM   Deleted Post   Bitcoin Forum   
Read   Today at 08:45:03 AM   Deleted Post   Bitcoin Forum   
Read   Today at 09:00:04 AM   Deleted Post   Bitcoin Forum

It looks like BA has made a bot script to automatically delete posts every 15 minuets.

Thanks Theymos, it's great to see these posts reactivated and it restores a sense of journalistic balance to how things happened with Black Arrow Software and brings into view the massive amount of legitimate consumer discontent associated with the company.

It's good to know that miners can speak freely and not have their observations deleted in the propagandist manner that has occurred over the last six months or more with BA. This is especially important for new potential consumers who are using the forum to do due diligence on companies and organisations who sell mining hardware and no doubt if many new purchasers had had access to the predominantly negative information that was being regularly deleted from the other thread, many would have thought twice and perhaps bought from more responsive and responsible alternative sources.

The fact that there is over 100 pages of commentary which has been deleted by BlackArrow should raise significant red flags for anyone considering buying hashing from BA.

Thanks again.

It's been 9.5 months since I paid for my order and I've received nothing but e-mails wishing me a merry Christmas and  promises that my miner won't explode.

So I don't get a refund or any hardware and if any does get shipped it's obsolete garbage that's worthless and dangerious, talk about service.

I think that showing the inventor of Bitcoin is getting scammed by this company and their forked toungs is relevent IMO.

I agree. I don't see how Satoshi being a customer of BA or not makes any difference in the quality of service and hardware BA has been producing. This is a distraction that should be in a different thread.

Better focus on Black Arrow because they ship out dangerous hardware.

I received one X3 order. 3 units should hash 3000gh/s but 2 psu's burned out and right now 1 unit is hashing at 400gh/s.

Terrible dangerous hardware

I can't recall.
Right after the pastebin post I investigated the name and address and forgot about it because obviously fake.
Will try for find some cached version of this pic.

Also Satoshi would never use this email address to order from this company.

[edit]
This was not the pic I saw but I recognise the name: Anthony Geary