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Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 7. (Read 96802 times)

hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
http://www.saic.gov.cn/english/aboutus/

Anyone sent a formal complaint here yet?

Compensation for fraudulent sellers can be as high as 3x the value of the item. Start there. Consumer advocates can be called in to help you with the processing of your complaint.


http://www.saic.gov.cn/english/LawsRegulations/Laws/200602/t20060227_55251.html


Code:
 Contents

  Chapter I    General Provisions

  Chapter II   Rights of Consumers

  Chapter III   Obligations of Businees Operators

  Chapter IV  Protection of the Legitimate Rights and Interests of Consumers by the State

  Chapter V  Consumer Organizations

  Chapter VI  Settlement of Disputes

  Chapter VII  Legal Responsibility

  Chapter VIII Supplementary Provisions

  Chapter I General Provisions

  Article 1

    The present Law is formulated for the protection of the legitimate rights and interests of

  consumers, maintenance of the socio-economic order and promotion of the healthy development of

  socialist market economy.

  Article 2

    The rights and interests of consumers in purchasing and using commodities or receiving

  services for daily consumption shall be under the protection of the present Law, or under the

  protection of other relevant laws and regulations in absence of stipulations in this Law.

  Article 3

    Business operators shall, in their supply of commodities produced and sold by them or

  services to consumers, abide by the present Law, or abide by other relevant laws and regulations

  in absence of stipulations in the present law.

  Article 4

    In transactions between business operators and consumers a principle of voluntariness,

  equality, fairness, honesty and credibility shall be followed.

  Article 5

    The State shall protect the legitimate rights and interests of consumers from infringement.

  The State shall adopt measures to safeguard consumers' exercise of their rights in accordance

  with the law and to maintain the legitimate rights and interests of consumers.

  Article 6

    It is the common responsibility of the whole society to protect the legitimate rights and

  interests of consumers.

  The State shall encourage and support all organizations and individuals to exercise social

  supervision over acts infringing upon consumer rights and interests.

  Mass media shall conduct propaganda defending the legitimate rights and interests of

  consumers and, through public opinion, exercise supervision over acts infringing upon the

  legitimate rights and interests of consumers.
legendary
Activity: 2800
Merit: 1012
Get Paid Crypto To Walk or Drive
They didn't use customer bitcoin payments whatsoever to purchase materials or labor.

I have never heard of a single batch 1 customer's bitcoin payment ever moving whatsoever until a few months ago, when BA claimed that funds were stolen from them, despite BA's term of sale specifying that fiat conversions were to be done via BTC-e.

In reality what happened is they used BTC-e just for the conversion rate, to take advantage of the fact that they would receive the maximum number of bitcoins for an invoiced dollar amount, and fraudulently charged all bitcoin customers "conversion" fees that were fictitious from the very beginning, as their ultimate intention was to embezzle their revenues.

Well at least we can take some comfort in knowing that they have lost a lot of value because bitcoin was 4 to 5X what it is today when we were ordering.  Yet again, they are idiots for not doing what they said they would, and have lost a substantial some of value because of this, does my heart a little good.
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 500
They didn't use customer bitcoin payments whatsoever to purchase materials or labor.

I have never heard of a single batch 1 customer's bitcoin payment ever moving whatsoever until a few months ago, when BA claimed that funds were stolen from them, despite BA's term of sale specifying that fiat conversions were to be done via BTC-e.

In reality what happened is they used BTC-e just for the conversion rate, to take advantage of the fact that they would receive the maximum number of bitcoins for an invoiced dollar amount, and fraudulently charged all bitcoin customers "conversion" fees that were fictitious from the very beginning, as their ultimate intention was to embezzle their revenues.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
blackarrow is trying to be aloof and superior and quoting from ToS, but as part of the black arrow scam he's deleting the replies that quote from his own promised terms which he used to secure orders and payments on this forum, so here's a copy of my reply for posterity:


11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.


While you're playing the quoting game, how about you look at your own written promises that purchases were made based upon:
  •    "What we are trying to say is:
         -...This is our promise. If products from competition will have ROI in February than our products will have as well."
  • "At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship. "
  • "Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well."

Not to mention numerous statements that this was not funded with customer money, nor the simple fact that they promised people refunds then jammed product on on them

There is also the problem of consumer law.  If their TOS violates consumer law in the countries in which which they sold, those portions are invalid.  In the U.S., UK,Europe they can't do this.  We saw what happened with BFL when they tried basically this same shit, and it didn't work out so well.

hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Think the other thread should to go to service discussions and this one should remain here.
sr. member
Activity: 459
Merit: 250
blackarrow is trying to be aloof and superior and quoting from ToS, but as part of the black arrow scam he's deleting the replies that quote from his own promised terms which he used to secure orders and payments on this forum, so here's a copy of my reply for posterity:


11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.


While you're playing the quoting game, how about you look at your own written promises that purchases were made based upon:
  •    "What we are trying to say is:
         -...This is our promise. If products from competition will have ROI in February than our products will have as well."
  • "At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship. "
  • "Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well."

You forgot the fine print:

"... HAHAHAHAHA, suckers"

Checkmate, loosers!
sr. member
Activity: 291
Merit: 250
Scam-Busting PSA: Beware of Black Arrow Software
blackarrow is trying to be aloof and superior and quoting from ToS, but as part of the black arrow scam he's deleting the replies that quote from his own promised terms which he used to secure orders and payments on this forum, so here's a copy of my reply for posterity:


11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.


While you're playing the quoting game, how about you look at your own written promises that purchases were made based upon:
  •    "What we are trying to say is:
         -...This is our promise. If products from competition will have ROI in February than our products will have as well."
  • "At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship. "
  • "Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well."
legendary
Activity: 1775
Merit: 1032
Value will be measured in sats
keep posting shit here and keep watching them delete it. It is so funny. Might as well make the opportunity cost too high for these cunts to operate in cryptoland.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Is it maybe possible that there's an angle here that justifies reporting to the SEC?

Some of their publicly-available information that they provided in order to justify not following consumer protection laws characterizes this as an investment scheme, and they certainly solicited US customers.


Maybe.  I'm not sure I didn't already, as I reported these pieces of shit to every alphabet agency I could find, but no harm in doing so again.....
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 500
Is it maybe possible that there's an angle here that justifies reporting to the SEC?

Some of their publicly-available information that they provided in order to justify not following consumer protection laws characterizes this as an investment scheme, and they certainly solicited US customers.
legendary
Activity: 1775
Merit: 1032
Value will be measured in sats
file a report with the HK police, consumer council and your local police force. The time
for asking for a refund past months ago...
full member
Activity: 138
Merit: 102
Find below the epiphany that propelled this scam into motion:

----------------------------------------------------------------



full member
Activity: 138
Merit: 102
I understand your point. But even the most unscrupulous 3d printer guy looks like a choir boy when compared to our criminally minded BTC con men.


  The parts where they never intend to build the device and stringing people along as long as possible.  A once-tried-to-be-honest business venture turning into a "scheme" (scam) in particular, but a lot
of what he mentioned were manufacturing boondoggles for making anything, especially in a fast-moving market.

I don't see the parallels so closely aligned as you do, but a good read nonetheless... thanks!

legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
 This article is about 3D printers, but the parallels are worth noting.  Substitute pre-order for kickstarter and miner for printer and you have a very good analysis of what has happened not only here, but with other would-be miner manufacturers.

http://www.inside3dp.com/low-cost-3d-printers-crowdfunding-suicide/

--Crow
/**/


Excellent article and spot on with your point. Just the people at bfl never intended to be a 'legitimate' company in the first place, same as BA, AMT etc etc. They are just professional con men, and in bfl's case, all mentally disturbed from a military background which is the worst thing a person can do to themselves!

But indigress, thanks for the link, enjoyed that read as I myself have been many 3D printer shows and this articles answers a lot of things that I see when I go these places.

Edit: thought this was BFL thread, took a while read the article but its still relative :-)


Progress update - 12 Feb 2014

also posted on:
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/progress-update-12-feb-2014.html
http://ecointalk.net/topic/511-progress-update-12-feb-2014/


Following customer feedback we will be posting regularly updates.


12 February 2014

1. Chip pinout complete. Received for review. We have confirmed to be ok.

2. Based on Verisilicon’s feedback we are upgrading the heatsink to the new specs

3. Improved X3 case to optimize functionality

4. Reduced the number of PCBs in X1 from 6 to 3 to improve reliability.

5. X1 hashboard has been reworked to support higher power consumption. We are now at version 3. Layout completed, starting rerouting tomorrow.

6. X3 hashboard has been redesigned due to case improvements. Completed schematics of the 3rd version of the board. Starting layout after routing of X1 board

7. Control board has been redesigned to use PCI connector instead of flat cable for improved reliability. Layout complete, rerouting tomorrow.
8.
Aquired bespoke 3D printer. Initiated prototyping of new parts for improved functionality in X3.
9. Meeting with VeriSilicon

10. Tapeout reconfirmed on 20 Feb 2014

11. Package confirmed

12. Delivered all final details regarding case, heatsinks and fans, running final thermal simulation, due to be received at the end of this week

3D printers are right on topic for this thread.
sr. member
Activity: 388
Merit: 250
ELYSIAN | Pre-TGE 5.21.2018 | TGE 6.04.2018
 This article is about 3D printers, but the parallels are worth noting.  Substitute pre-order for kickstarter and miner for printer and you have a very good analysis of what has happened not only here, but with other would-be miner manufacturers.

http://www.inside3dp.com/low-cost-3d-printers-crowdfunding-suicide/

--Crow
/**/


Excellent article and spot on with your point. Just the people at bfl never intended to be a 'legitimate' company in the first place, same as BA, AMT etc etc. They are just professional con men, and in bfl's case, all mentally disturbed from a military background which is the worst thing a person can do to themselves!

But indigress, thanks for the link, enjoyed that read as I myself have been many 3D printer shows and this articles answers a lot of things that I see when I go these places.

Edit: thought this was BFL thread, took a while read the article but its still relative :-)
newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
  The parts where they never intend to build the device and stringing people along as long as possible.  A once-tried-to-be-honest business venture turning into a "scheme" (scam) in particular, but a lot
of what he mentioned were manufacturing boondoggles for making anything, especially in a fast-moving market.

I don't see the parallels so closely aligned as you do, but a good read nonetheless... thanks!

full member
Activity: 138
Merit: 102
I don't see the parallels so closely aligned as you do, but a good read nonetheless... thanks!

  This article is about 3D printers, but the parallels are worth noting.  Substitute pre-order for kickstarter and miner for printer and you have a very good analysis of what has happened not only here, but with other would-be miner manufacturers.

http://www.inside3dp.com/low-cost-3d-printers-crowdfunding-suicide/

--Crow
/**/

newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
  This article is about 3D printers, but the parallels are worth noting.  Substitute pre-order for kickstarter and miner for printer and you have a very good analysis of what has happened not only here, but with other would-be miner manufacturers.

http://www.inside3dp.com/low-cost-3d-printers-crowdfunding-suicide/

--Crow
/**/
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
I don't agree with it, but the forum admins maintain strict neutrality (at least on the surface).

On the other hand, it was very good of Theymous to create this thread from the 100+ pages of posts that BlackArrow deleted from their self-moderated thread. I haven't seen that happen very often. So they're obviously concerned about people abusing the board's self-moderation features to paint a false picture.

Yep, I think in some cases, where there is outright scamming going on, the ban hammer or the scammer tag has to be there.

Look at the history of Alex and Cristina and Daniel.  It's ugly, outright fraud and theft according to that page from Romania.  The hardware debacle is just another occurrence and now they are again using this forum to sell something else after using it to scam a ton of cash from forum users on the miners by making promises they never kept. 

If that report is to be believed, and I see no reason to think it is not true, as they've never denied it as far as I know, these people are known criminals operating on this forum in a manner that allows them to hide the truth about their past actions from perspective consumers, while trying to sell a device that interfaces with people's computers and stores their money.

If not an outright ban or removal of self mod privelidges, mods could, at a minimum, perform the same restoration to Black Arrow's new self-moderated thread on their hardware device, as they've turned the bot onto that as well. 

People should know who they are trusting their BTC to.  They should know the history of these people and be able to use the full body of information to make the decision as to if it is a good idea to trust these people to store their BTC as well as plug a device into their PC to do it, considering the management of Black Arrow's reported history of fraud. 
sr. member
Activity: 459
Merit: 250
I don't agree with it, but the forum admins maintain strict neutrality (at least on the surface).

On the other hand, it was very good of Theymous to create this thread from the 100+ pages of posts that BlackArrow deleted from their self-moderated thread. I haven't seen that happen very often. So they're obviously concerned about people abusing the board's self-moderation features to paint a false picture.
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