Topic: REAL market traders... are they here...? (Read 3420 times)

Maybe, but I hate arse-suckers in a discussion forums. Escalate it a bit, and you will see what I mean: You call some name, I call some name, repeat until you end up with most well known figure. What kind of discussion is that?

"I don't much care to. Go fuck yourself."

Ah the surest sign of someone who is a total fraud and a liar.  Resorting to profanity and attacking others personally instead of engaging their arguments intellectually when confronted with his lies.  

And completely ignoring questions about statements that make him look like a total fool.  "I speak directly with investment professionals!  I know more about money than xyz person!  How dare you question me and my credentials even though I am just some anonymous internet forum poster!"  

You sir are a joke and the personification of the words unwarranted arrogance.  Good day.

I don't much care to. Go fuck yourself.

It is based on what he writes, I know his credentials.

If you remove your head from the ars of that real professional you favour and use as blinders, you might be able to find out something yourself. See, think, do. It must be the oldest investor advice there is.

You didn't answer my question.  You said you have talked to "professionals."  Who and when exactly?  Please enlighten us mere mortals with the details of your conversations with said "professionals."

You know more about money than Paul Krugman?  How so?  

Krugman graduated from Yale and has a PhD from MIT.  He is an economics professor at Princeton and has spent pretty much his entire adult life studying economics.  I'm not saying he is right about everything or is some sort of god.  But what are your credentials since you claim to "know more about money" than him.

You have too much respect for them. Access? are they not all over the place? They are humans, like you.

Do I know more about money than dr Krugman? Yes. Does saying that make me arrogant? No.
Everyone can read my posts, also Krugmans posts over at nytimes.

There is no problem trusting bitstamp or btc-e as exchanges because as soon as you are long you can take out your bitcoin to your own wallet. Americans are restricted from wiring money to btc-e so try bitstamp.

If you are looking for Bitcoin 2.0 that has solved the 8 transactions per second problem look at NXT and emunie.

agreed.  esp since he is long bitcoin.

Great video, I have the same opinion of you, I am a firm believer on Bitcoin and it's technology, but I am not naive to ignore that our psychology is the same wether we are trading oil or bitcoin. So the rules for traders DO apply for bitcoin and we will see the same dynamics of price discovery that we saw on past times with different commodities.

Bitcoin’s real contribution to the world is its source code. The blockchain, the network protocol, the cryptographic verification — anyone can take this and build a currency with any economic properties their community needs. I’m not convinced that bitcoin’s Austrian School properties can sustain a global (or even local) economy, but you know what? That’s okay. If I ever feel the bitcoin economy has become too unequal, unbalanced, or stagnant, it’s now trivial for me to start my own damn currency.

There is no perfect monetary system for every situation. Bitcoin is not going to be the one world currency, and it doesn’t need to be. A lot of people compare Bitcoin to the Internet, but it’s more like CompuServe. It’s the first of many digital, non-state currencies to come, that will all interoperate with each other in ways we can’t even dream of yet.

What the people who criticize those who use technical analysis and other "wall street" method to trade the volatility need to understand is that they are not hard science, they are a system to make decisions in an enviroment that is extremely uncertain.

It's not a magic formula for making money, but I bet you will survive longer than by just watching the bid/ask wall for making decisions.

Yet another unbelievably arrogant post from a btc true believer.  Dismissing anyone who does not believe as fervently as they do.  Which investment "professionals" have you spoken to?  A VC?  A hedge fund manager?  How do you have personal access to such people with their busy schedules pray tell?  Are you that important?  If so, then why are you bothering to post on a lowly btc internet forum?

Twitter stock, 3D printing stocks are extremely easy to trade and there is plenty of volatility and massive returns there.  Same for index options and stock options.  And no super slow executions of buy or sell orders or delays getting your money into or out of exchanges like with btc.

I would not classify Bitcoin as a derivative.  A derivative derives its value from something else -- wheat, soy, metal, oil, whatever.  Bitcoin does not.  Its value depends not on the value of some other commodity, but on the value of Bitcoin itself.  Which makes it something of a misfit among derivatives.  I agree with you that the derivative markets are probably best equipped to deal in it right now though, and the pattern of trades it shows so far is very similar to the patterns shown by derivative trading.

Insofar as I have bought stocks, I am no "big fish;" I own a portfolio of stocks about equal to the value of my home. I have traded on the basis of investment rather than speculation, as I do not typically hold any stocks I buy for less than five years, and I do insist on buying stocks that actually pay dividends.  So the 'currency speculation market' that dominates Bitcoin trading is a completely new experience for me.  I invested in Bitcoin because I believe it is the best solution so far proposed to International Internet commerce and has an advantage on its merits over traditional finance networks.  It moves money around the world quickly, efficiently, and cheaply. 

But it is not yet a mainstream way of doing that.  Furthermore, its scaling issues will not allow it to become a mainstream way of doing that.  A limit of seven transactions per second is laughable when compared to the number of tx per second a mainstream financial network has to process.  So that is the major technology risk as I see it;  I bought Bitcoin believing that the devs would work hard, and well before now, to fix the scalability problem.  So far, they have not.  The value of Bitcoin has not been driven by its use as a financial network, because it is still useless as a financial network.   Its value has been driven by currency speculators, and is now well above the mark at which I'd have bought (late in 2012) if I had known that at the beginning of 2014 the network would still not be able to handle at least a thousand tx per second. 

So, right now, the lack of development on the scalability front is making me worry a lot.  If that does not get fixed, and fairly soon, I believe the value of Bitcoin cannot be sustained at the current level.  It is attracting some mainstream speculator attention now, but when stock and bond traders are aware of it they will attempt to use it as a financial network and that is a whole different game.  If at that time they still cannot, they will discover that they cannot and the value sustained by speculation will be shown to be unjustified.  At that point, even if Bitcoin develops a scalability solution it won't help.  It will be dismissed in the minds of people who would like to use it as a financial network until long after its first mover advantage is lost. 

This. 'emotional rollercoaster' is being very generous, and that's an understatement of the year.

More like no-life experience, no-real-power experience small fries getting too uppity for its own good.


bitcoin is not some silver bullet. those who think so are at best delusional and mistaken; more likely they just don' know what power, influence, and wealth actually mean since they have never even recognized its shadow much less tasted it in the first place.


Mop the floor with these fools. If they bitch more and makes prices swing, that's more profit for the silent and competent traders who couldn't give a two penny fuck about some anti-government bitchfest.

You OP might have too much respect for the professionals. Have you talked to any of them? I have. They talk about shares just like any connoisseur talks about wine. Pure magic.

A venture capitalist sitting on the sidelines for bitcoin now, is pathetic. Venture means risky business you know, but bitcoin is too risky. Or they don't see the potential reward. They really only follow the stream. Edit: Waiting for Krugman to be bitcoin bull perhaps.

Face it, you are the one in knowledge, you are the venture capitalist. Fuck the magicians

Welcome, jballs. I hope you stick around.

Actually yes, I didn't doubt until he posted that he smokes a cigar which is #1 result of the query "most expensive cigar", so not some obscure-but-expensive stuff, but the one he found by a quick googling. That triggered some doubts for me.

As for OP, of course they are here, trading is just like any other asset but with bad exchanges and huge volatility I guess when it becomes easier to trade, most of the volatility would be gone and bitcoin would be moving in smooth multi-week trends as any other asset.

bitcoin will not overthrow regime, it will add new flavors to it or die trying.

hopefully making all of us rich on the way, this is our not traders mantra

Is this possible somewhere else? you tell me..

No one ever talked about taking "life lessons" from Livermore.  He is valued for his lessons on trading/speculating.  The guy was worth $3 million after the crash of 1907 and $100 million after the crash of 1929.  $100 million in 1929 is prob billions in today's dollars.  And he started out when he was a teenager with around $5.  If you dismiss someone with a track record like that then you are not very bright.

Neither jballs nor I is talking about esoteric things like 25 yr old cs problems.  We are talking about bitcoin as a speculative instrument.  If you don't think it is a speculative instrument then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm really sure at this point we are having two entirely different conversations.

Take your ritalin and read some of the thread and if you have anything pertinent to add I'll check back later.

PS- as for Livermore, not all men fear death.

I made a video on the subject a couple weeks ago

http://youtu.be/BzcEiszx09g

You can skip the first bit as you already know bitcoin, but the rest deals with how fucked the financial system is.

In short, I can make a case that they will have way bigger problems before they ever get a noose around bitcoin. Power only wants power. So those in power will naturally exploit it or destroy it, or lose their power to it. And my best guess in our complex world is all three of those outcomes will occur.

The power structure is fluid, we have trouble seeing that because it is designed to not look fluid. I have been to a half dozen Federal Reserve buildings and they all use the same architecture. Concrete blocks like they were pulled off the great pyramid. FRBNY is almost comical the blocks are so oversized. It's a message of permanence and officiousness, but the hustlers that come and go have their own agendas, and strengths and weaknesses. The institutions are hollow edifices, stages for the puppetmasters.

My take is that the powers that be need guys like Ed Snowden. Thousands, tens of thousands of them, to run their system. The old guard got too old, that is really why the 2008 collapse happened. the grey hairs that built the post-Keynesian house of cards up and died or left the game. Their kids didn't really understand it in a big picture sense, so they just pushed the gas to the floor until it exploded.

Well those people aren't going to fix the mess, they don't know how. Evidenced by the current solution and how well it's working (QE, nonsense, cronyism).

What I hope is bitcoiners are the ones with the brains and the balls to take the reigns and fix the mess they (we) are all about to inherit in full force, and provide some alternatives to what is a crumbling archaic financial system on its very last legs.

That's probably a lousy answer to your question but it's the best I've got for now. I think BTC is here to stay for sure, black market or mainstream or global or zonal, my crystal ball is murky there but I am comfortable owning it, for sure.

Livermore left behind a wife and two kids after blowing his brains out. Not exactly someone I'm prepared to take life lessons from.

It seems you and jballs don't really understand what Bitcoin and other digital currencies are, and are rushing to judgement. If you can explain how Bitcoin works under the hood without looking it up, or how digital currencies solve a 25 year-old computer science problem previously thought to be unsolvable, then you have my attention.