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Topic: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. - page 139. (Read 636443 times)

legendary
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Merit: 1001
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....  I still stand by my earlier comment that if people are trying to bring non-science into the science forum then it seems like there's a good reason to kick them out.

Then we get to kick out Bill Nye, Al Gore, the moderators of the climate forums on Reddit....

When do we start?

Huh?  Why are those guys anti-science?  I understand that most of the climate-change deniers are simply denying the scientific method and if people are denying the scientific method then in my opinion it's weird to have them posting in a science forum.  It's like having me, and atheist, going to a church convention on how to interpret the virgin birth of Jesus.  I don't accept the starting point so having me at that convention would be ridiculous.  Are you saying these guys are denying the scientific method?


Is this a 100% scientific experiment?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/climate-fail-files/gore-and-bill-nye-fail-at-doing-a-simple-co2-experiment/

You are always welcome in my church. I will never deny you the right to express yourself...

 Wink


sed
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
....  I still stand by my earlier comment that if people are trying to bring non-science into the science forum then it seems like there's a good reason to kick them out.

Then we get to kick out Bill Nye, Al Gore, the moderators of the climate forums on Reddit....

When do we start?

Huh?  Why are those guys anti-science?  I understand that most of the climate-change deniers are simply denying the scientific method and if people are denying the scientific method then in my opinion it's weird to have them posting in a science forum.  It's like having me, and atheist, going to a church convention on how to interpret the virgin birth of Jesus.  I don't accept the starting point so having me at that convention would be ridiculous.  Are you saying these guys are denying the scientific method?
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
....  I still stand by my earlier comment that if people are trying to bring non-science into the science forum then it seems like there's a good reason to kick them out.

Then we get to kick out Bill Nye, Al Gore, the moderators of the climate forums on Reddit....

When do we start?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon
I feel like this is somewhat relevant to this thread:

http://www.cnet.com/news/there-are-too-many-scientific-studies-says-scientific-study/

Now a scientific study says there are too many scientific studies.  I'm not saying this means that science is broken, I am emphasizing that science is only one way to examine the world/your existence.  I still stand by my earlier comment that if people are trying to bring non-science into the science forum then it seems like there's a good reason to kick them out.


This, right there, is the problem...





sed
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
I feel like this is somewhat relevant to this thread:

http://www.cnet.com/news/there-are-too-many-scientific-studies-says-scientific-study/

Now a scientific study says there are too many scientific studies.  I'm not saying this means that science is broken, I am emphasizing that science is only one way to examine the world/your existence.  I still stand by my earlier comment that if people are trying to bring non-science into the science forum then it seems like there's a good reason to kick them out.
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276

The solar output of the sun and the inclination of the earth as well as the surface albedo characteristics have changed. CO2 is a thermostat, the rest of the climate system is the machine that brings us to where that thermostat points to.
...

Co2 is a thermostat?

No, I can't see any reason for that analogy.  Water and water vapor may well be a thermostat.
...

That was my thought also when I read the statement.  A thermostat tends be a simple device but still it contains a couple of distinct parts.  A classic mechanical one is often a bi-metallic coil which actuates something like a mercury switch and has some calibration mechanism.

If anything, CO2 might be a component of a thermostat, but it could also be more along the lines of something which is simply off in the corner of the room that happens to be influenced by the thermodynamics of the space.  My sense at this point is that CO2 is important enough in the rather complex system to qualify as a non-trivial feature of a very complex 'thermostat'.  If I had to choose between being wrong and 1) it ranks near the top in terms of importance, or 2) it utterly inconsequential, I'd probably select the latter.

---

In other news, I just listened to a reasonably interesting presentation by a couple of Canadians on opposite sides of the issue.  The questions coming in from the field indicate to me that people are feeling like they are being hustled and there is an effort to produce an unnecessary panic on the part of the Warmistas.  For anyone interested:

  https://soundcloud.com/ian-jessop-cfax/march-16-1pm?in=ian-jessop-cfax/sets/ian-jessop
or in more nicely edited form:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Ih2Wi8AAQ

Canada does seem to be unusually interested in this issue based on the number of Canadians who have significant input relative to their population and economic footprint.  I suppose it has to do with their economy which has a significant fossil fuels component and perhaps their geographical situation as well.

hero member
Activity: 616
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Yeah, it probably goes without saying that they get whacked when they come up against their exact opposite.

Good luck, g

'People like Morano have made a career out of being contrarians, and they are very good at it. When a scientist comes up against a well-trained, savvy person, scientists will always lose in the debate.'
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon



Reviews are in! Skeptic Morano as villain in warmist film is ‘terrifyingly impressive, sadistic’ – ‘The doc’s most engaging character’ – ‘A magnificent antihero, a cheery, chatty prevaricator’ – ‘Slick’ – ‘Scary’ – ‘A loathsome mercenary’ – ‘Sleazy spin doctor’





New Warmist film by Sony Pictures, 'Merchants of Doubt', portrays Marc Morano as evil nemesis/arch-enemy of climate change promoters - Morano is ‘a grinning-skull nihilist’

Global warming movies sets out to smear skeptics, but ‘features 'a semi-affectionate portrait of professional attack dog Marc Morano'

[Note: The other upcoming documentary, Morano's skeptical global warming documentary, 'Climate Hustle' ,is set to rock climate debate - Release set for later in 2015. Climatologist Dr. Judith Curry: 'Morano’s film Climate Hustle; check out the trailer.  Seems to more entertaining anyways than 'Merchants of Doubt.'...Stay tuned...]

'Merchants of Doubt' director pushing to ban Morano & other skeptics from TV!

New York Times: Morano exemplifies 'slickness, grandiosity & charm'

New York Times: 'Morano is a cheerful and unapologetic promoter of climate-change skepticism'

Morano in starring role as villain in warmist film ‘Merchants of Doubt’ – Morano: ‘I’m not a scientist, but I play one on TV’

Climatologist Dr. Judith Curry: 'Morano is actually quite broadly knowledgeable about climate science and the associated politics’

Warmist review of Merchants Of Doubt criticizes film for being ‘swindled by the charm of charismatic talking heads’ like Morano

Warmist Naomi Oreskes: 'People like Morano have made a career out of being contrarians, and they are very good at it. When a scientist comes up against a well-trained, savvy person, scientists will always lose in the debate.'

Warmist Randy Olson laments: ‘Wish the enviros had someone comparable to Morano, but they don't’

TV villain slogan: "If only he'd used his powers for good, instead of for evil."

Morano responds to tobacco smear: 'The warmists have it exactly backwards. It is the global warming proponents who are guilty of the tobacco tactics.' See: Flashback: Warmists’ mimic tobacco industry tactics: ‘Like tobacco industry, Warmists’ manufactured uncertainty & fear by stridently proclaiming certainty & consensus based on dubious & uncertain modeled results predicting disastrous consequences of a warmer climate’


By: Marc Morano - Climate DepotMarch 15, 2015 8:10 PM with 280 comments

Watch ‘Merchants of Doubt’ Trailer here:


http://www.climatedepot.com/2015/03/15/film-reviews-are-in-for-warmist-film-morano-as-villain-is-terrifyingly-impressive-sadistic-the-docs-most-engaging-character-a-magnificent-antihero-a-cheery-chatty-prevaricator/




legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386

The solar output of the sun and the inclination of the earth as well as the surface albedo characteristics have changed. CO2 is a thermostat, the rest of the climate system is the machine that brings us to where that thermostat points to.


California is experiencing extreme droughts right now and you can't deny the flooding caused by disasters in the very recent past.

Climate getting warmer was always in the vast majority of scientific opinion, quoting someone in the minority who got it wrong proves nothing.

Claiming that Science is tethered to a political agenda is utter bullshit as the two are very easily separable. There is no freedom to burn down forests and kill the environment. These things are and should be crimes.

Co2 is a thermostat?

No, I can't see any reason for that analogy.  Water and water vapor may well be a thermostat.

California is experiencing....

Left out of your assertion is the well known fact that Western coastal USA weather is heavily influenced by the 60-80 year Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO). 

Omitting this fact and then attributing or asserting that cause of "extreme weather" in California is the result of man's carbon emissions is simply lying.  Yes it may be lying in pursuit of a political agenda.  But as you note and as I have illustrated, the two are easily separatable.

which is of course why the warmers want to shut certain people up....
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon



"If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."






"But the debate is settled. Climate change is a fact," said President Barack Obama in his 2014 State of the Union address. Saying the debate is settled is nonsense, but the president is right about climate change.

GlobalChange.gov gives the definition of climate change: "Changes in average weather conditions that persist over multiple decades or longer. Climate change encompasses both increases and decreases in temperature, as well as shifts in precipitation, changing risk of certain types of severe weather events, and changes to other features of the climate system." That definition covers all weather phenomena throughout all 4.54 billion years of Earth's existence.

You say, "Williams, that's not what the warmers are talking about. It's the high CO2 levels caused by mankind's industrial activities that are causing the climate change!" There's a problem with that reasoning. Today CO2 concentrations worldwide average about 380 parts per million. This level of CO2 concentration is trivial compared with the concentrations during earlier geologic periods. For example, 460 million years ago, during the Ordovician Period, CO2 concentrations were 4,400 ppm, and temperatures then were about the same as they are today. With such high levels of CO2, at least according to the warmers, the Earth should have been boiling.

Then there are warmer predictions. In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, warmers, such as the Union of Concerned Scientists, made all manner of doomsday predictions about global warming and the increased frequency of hurricanes. According to the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, "no Category 3-5 hurricane has struck the United States for a record nine years, and Earth's temperature has not budged for 18 years."

Climate change predictions have been wrong for decades. Let's look at some. At the first Earth Day celebration, in 1969, environmentalist Nigel Calder warned, "The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind." C.C. Wallen of the World Meteorological Organization said, "The cooling since 1940 has been large enough and consistent enough that it will not soon be reversed." In 1968, Professor Paul Ehrlich predicted that there would be a major food shortage in the U.S. and that "in the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of millions of people (would) starve to death." Ehrlich forecasted that 65 million Americans would die of starvation between 1980 and 1989 and that by 1999, the U.S. population would have declined to 22.6 million. Ehrlich's predictions about England were gloomier. He said, "If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."

In 1970, Harvard University biologist George Wald predicted, "Civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind." Sen. Gaylord Nelson, in Look magazine in April 1970, said that by 1995, "somewhere between 75 and 85 percent of all the species of living animals (would) be extinct."

Climate change propaganda is simply a ruse for a socialist agenda. Consider the statements of some environmentalist leaders. Christiana Figueres, the U.N.'s chief climate change official, said that her unelected bureaucrats are undertaking "probably the most difficult task" they have ever given themselves, "which is to intentionally transform the (global) economic development model." In 2010, German economist and Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change official Ottmar Edenhofer said, "One must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy." The article in which that interview appeared summarized Edenhofer's views this way: "Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection. ... The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's resources will be negotiated."

The most disgusting aspect of the climate change debate is the statements by many that it's settled science. There is nothing more anti-scientific than the idea that any science is settled. Very often we find that the half-life of many scientific ideas is about 50 years. For academics to not criticize their colleagues and politicians for suggesting that scientific ideas are not subject to challenge is the height of academic dishonesty.


http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2015/03/11/global-warming-n1967847/page/full






The solar output of the sun and the inclination of the earth as well as the surface albedo characteristics have changed. CO2 is a thermostat, the rest of the climate system is the machine that brings us to where that thermostat points to.


California is experiencing extreme droughts right now and you can't deny the flooding caused by disasters in the very recent past.

Climate getting warmer was always in the vast majority of scientific opinion, quoting someone in the minority who got it wrong proves nothing.

Claiming that Science is tethered to a political agenda is utter bullshit as the two are very easily separable. There is no freedom to burn down forests and kill the environment. These things are and should be crimes.




This thread seems to have boiled down to a big circle jerk.





UCLA Professors Exposes Climate Fraud, Funding Cut, Punished And Fired; Sues UCLA And Wins Out Of Court Settlement…







School says it’s purely a financial decision – trial ain’t cheap

Scientific research at universities is supposed to involve inquiry into established theories and hypotheses.

That is, unless they question environmental regulations.

One UCLA science researcher, a 34-year veteran of the school, found himself out of a job in 2011 after examining the data underlying diesel regulations proposed by a California regulator and exposing the shoddy credentials of a lead author of that regulator’s report.

James Enstrom secured victory in a two-and-a-half year legal battle against UCLA last week when the school agreed to settle the case.

The school is paying the “diesel particulate matter” expert $140,000, reinstating his title as “Retired Researcher,” and restoring his access to UCLA resources, “effectively” rescinding his termination, according to the American Center for Law & Justice, which represented Enstrom.

Enstrom had challenged the validity of a California Air Resources Board study on diesel particulate matter and mortality in the state and the regulations that followed. He denounced the research as a faulty reading of data.

UCLA retaliated against Enstrom after he “became an aggressive and lone critic at UCLA of air pollution research,” escalating in 2008 after he testified in California Senate hearings, according to a lawsuit filed by the center in 2012.

It accused the school of initiating “a series of actions designed to silence and ultimately terminate Dr. Enstrom.”

Enstrom exposed fraudulent behavior in the studies on which the board relied, including that of the lead author of a 2008 report. Hien Tran “admitted he purchased” a magna cum laude Ph.D. for $1,000 from a “diploma mill associated with a fugitive pedophile,” according to CalWatchdog.

It’s “the standard MO” of the regulatory board to use “unverified studies to gin up regulations” in the state, according to Lois Henry, a Bakersfield Californian columnist who covers California politics, in a column last month.

After blowing the whistle, Enstrom found his position’s funding cut, as detailed in a 2010 letter from the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education to then-Chancellor Gene Block.[…]

Speaking about the settlement, UCLA told The Daily Bruin that it did not target Enstrom for his political beliefs.

It said that “Enstrom’s presence as a researcher for decades, despite his minority positions defending diesel emissions and tobacco, demonstrates” that UCLA promotes academic diversity.

A spokesman told The Fix that UCLA settled the case because it would cost “far less than the legal costs of a trial.” Enstrom’s settlement includes “some other incidental campus services, such as eligibility for parking and email, associated with his retiree status.”


http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/21611/


legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon



"If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."






"But the debate is settled. Climate change is a fact," said President Barack Obama in his 2014 State of the Union address. Saying the debate is settled is nonsense, but the president is right about climate change.

GlobalChange.gov gives the definition of climate change: "Changes in average weather conditions that persist over multiple decades or longer. Climate change encompasses both increases and decreases in temperature, as well as shifts in precipitation, changing risk of certain types of severe weather events, and changes to other features of the climate system." That definition covers all weather phenomena throughout all 4.54 billion years of Earth's existence.

You say, "Williams, that's not what the warmers are talking about. It's the high CO2 levels caused by mankind's industrial activities that are causing the climate change!" There's a problem with that reasoning. Today CO2 concentrations worldwide average about 380 parts per million. This level of CO2 concentration is trivial compared with the concentrations during earlier geologic periods. For example, 460 million years ago, during the Ordovician Period, CO2 concentrations were 4,400 ppm, and temperatures then were about the same as they are today. With such high levels of CO2, at least according to the warmers, the Earth should have been boiling.

Then there are warmer predictions. In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, warmers, such as the Union of Concerned Scientists, made all manner of doomsday predictions about global warming and the increased frequency of hurricanes. According to the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, "no Category 3-5 hurricane has struck the United States for a record nine years, and Earth's temperature has not budged for 18 years."

Climate change predictions have been wrong for decades. Let's look at some. At the first Earth Day celebration, in 1969, environmentalist Nigel Calder warned, "The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind." C.C. Wallen of the World Meteorological Organization said, "The cooling since 1940 has been large enough and consistent enough that it will not soon be reversed." In 1968, Professor Paul Ehrlich predicted that there would be a major food shortage in the U.S. and that "in the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of millions of people (would) starve to death." Ehrlich forecasted that 65 million Americans would die of starvation between 1980 and 1989 and that by 1999, the U.S. population would have declined to 22.6 million. Ehrlich's predictions about England were gloomier. He said, "If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."

In 1970, Harvard University biologist George Wald predicted, "Civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind." Sen. Gaylord Nelson, in Look magazine in April 1970, said that by 1995, "somewhere between 75 and 85 percent of all the species of living animals (would) be extinct."

Climate change propaganda is simply a ruse for a socialist agenda. Consider the statements of some environmentalist leaders. Christiana Figueres, the U.N.'s chief climate change official, said that her unelected bureaucrats are undertaking "probably the most difficult task" they have ever given themselves, "which is to intentionally transform the (global) economic development model." In 2010, German economist and Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change official Ottmar Edenhofer said, "One must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy." The article in which that interview appeared summarized Edenhofer's views this way: "Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection. ... The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's resources will be negotiated."

The most disgusting aspect of the climate change debate is the statements by many that it's settled science. There is nothing more anti-scientific than the idea that any science is settled. Very often we find that the half-life of many scientific ideas is about 50 years. For academics to not criticize their colleagues and politicians for suggesting that scientific ideas are not subject to challenge is the height of academic dishonesty.


http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2015/03/11/global-warming-n1967847/page/full






The solar output of the sun and the inclination of the earth as well as the surface albedo characteristics have changed. CO2 is a thermostat, the rest of the climate system is the machine that brings us to where that thermostat points to.


California is experiencing extreme droughts right now and you can't deny the flooding caused by disasters in the very recent past.

Climate getting warmer was always in the vast majority of scientific opinion, quoting someone in the minority who got it wrong proves nothing.

Claiming that Science is tethered to a political agenda is utter bullshit as the two are very easily separable. There is no freedom to burn down forests and kill the environment. These things are and should be crimes.




This thread seems to have boiled down to a big circle jerk.





Harry Reid: Republicans Need A Global Warming “Day Of Reckoning”…






Senate Democrats slammed Republicans Friday over their climate change tactics.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) said Republicans have “no plan” to tackle climate change.

“Republicans in Congress have no plan to address climate change and cannot even bear to utter the words. Even worse, the majority leader [Mitch McConnell] wants to impose on states his irresponsible plan for congressional action,” the Senate Democrats wrote in a USA Today op-ed. “The Republican Party in Congress has become the political arm of the fossil fuel industry.” […]

“There is a massive political and public relations operation being run by the fossil fuel industry to create false doubt and plant phony questions to delay their day of reckoning so they can keep making money,” they said. “It’s the same game, and in many cases the same people, that Big Tobacco used for years to raise doubt that its products make people sick.”


http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/235635-senate-dems-gop-needs-climate-change-day-of-reckoning



-----------------------------------------------------------
That sounds like a religious reference from a LDS church member (as he is). Far from a scientific statement... He is waiting for a miracle!


 Smiley



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Activity: 616
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Yeah it can probably be pretty hard ...

Tuesday night, Sisterson said it’s hard to talk to people about global warming when the effects of a warmer planetary average may include colder colds.

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Forget Global Warming And Climate Change, Call It 'Climate Disruption'

Quote

People have been learned to cope with change by thinking it’s not all bad, but climate change is all bad, according to a climate scientist at Argonne National Laboratory who says it’s time to replace the term climate change, itself a replacement for global warming, with a new term: climate disruption.  Grin

“Positive mental attitude is a really wonderful way to deal with change,” research meteorologist Doug Sisterson told about 200 people at the University of Chicago’s International House Tuesday night. “We’ve learned that we want to be optimists and have a positive mental attitude, and the way we deal with that is by thinking ‘Not all change is bad.’ Well, talking about climate change, it’s not good. So maybe it’s wrong to portray climate change with a positive mental attitude.

“Maybe we should start talking about climate disruption, because the things I’m talking about would seem to be highly disruptive. And so maybe the better way to characterize what’s happening with these extreme weather events is to think of it as climate disruption. Maybe it more accurately represents the journey we are about to be embarking upon.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2015/03/12/forget-global-warming-and-climate-change-call-it-climate-disruption/
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon



"If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."






"But the debate is settled. Climate change is a fact," said President Barack Obama in his 2014 State of the Union address. Saying the debate is settled is nonsense, but the president is right about climate change.

GlobalChange.gov gives the definition of climate change: "Changes in average weather conditions that persist over multiple decades or longer. Climate change encompasses both increases and decreases in temperature, as well as shifts in precipitation, changing risk of certain types of severe weather events, and changes to other features of the climate system." That definition covers all weather phenomena throughout all 4.54 billion years of Earth's existence.

You say, "Williams, that's not what the warmers are talking about. It's the high CO2 levels caused by mankind's industrial activities that are causing the climate change!" There's a problem with that reasoning. Today CO2 concentrations worldwide average about 380 parts per million. This level of CO2 concentration is trivial compared with the concentrations during earlier geologic periods. For example, 460 million years ago, during the Ordovician Period, CO2 concentrations were 4,400 ppm, and temperatures then were about the same as they are today. With such high levels of CO2, at least according to the warmers, the Earth should have been boiling.

Then there are warmer predictions. In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, warmers, such as the Union of Concerned Scientists, made all manner of doomsday predictions about global warming and the increased frequency of hurricanes. According to the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, "no Category 3-5 hurricane has struck the United States for a record nine years, and Earth's temperature has not budged for 18 years."

Climate change predictions have been wrong for decades. Let's look at some. At the first Earth Day celebration, in 1969, environmentalist Nigel Calder warned, "The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind." C.C. Wallen of the World Meteorological Organization said, "The cooling since 1940 has been large enough and consistent enough that it will not soon be reversed." In 1968, Professor Paul Ehrlich predicted that there would be a major food shortage in the U.S. and that "in the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of millions of people (would) starve to death." Ehrlich forecasted that 65 million Americans would die of starvation between 1980 and 1989 and that by 1999, the U.S. population would have declined to 22.6 million. Ehrlich's predictions about England were gloomier. He said, "If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."

In 1970, Harvard University biologist George Wald predicted, "Civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind." Sen. Gaylord Nelson, in Look magazine in April 1970, said that by 1995, "somewhere between 75 and 85 percent of all the species of living animals (would) be extinct."

Climate change propaganda is simply a ruse for a socialist agenda. Consider the statements of some environmentalist leaders. Christiana Figueres, the U.N.'s chief climate change official, said that her unelected bureaucrats are undertaking "probably the most difficult task" they have ever given themselves, "which is to intentionally transform the (global) economic development model." In 2010, German economist and Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change official Ottmar Edenhofer said, "One must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy." The article in which that interview appeared summarized Edenhofer's views this way: "Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection. ... The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's resources will be negotiated."

The most disgusting aspect of the climate change debate is the statements by many that it's settled science. There is nothing more anti-scientific than the idea that any science is settled. Very often we find that the half-life of many scientific ideas is about 50 years. For academics to not criticize their colleagues and politicians for suggesting that scientific ideas are not subject to challenge is the height of academic dishonesty.


http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2015/03/11/global-warming-n1967847/page/full






The solar output of the sun and the inclination of the earth as well as the surface albedo characteristics have changed. CO2 is a thermostat, the rest of the climate system is the machine that brings us to where that thermostat points to.


California is experiencing extreme droughts right now and you can't deny the flooding caused by disasters in the very recent past.

Climate getting warmer was always in the vast majority of scientific opinion, quoting someone in the minority who got it wrong proves nothing.

Claiming that Science is tethered to a political agenda is utter bullshit as the two are very easily separable. There is no freedom to burn down forests and kill the environment. These things are and should be crimes.




This thread seems to have boiled down to a big circle jerk.





Al Gore: Climate Deniers Need to Pay a Price





While all of the wild Global Warming predictions of the Climate Priest, Al Gore, have all proven untrue, there are still those on the Progressive left who take heed of his words.

Recently, the words Al Gore has been spewing are a part of the Climate Denier witch hunt that is currently being waged by the left. As a matter of fact, the Chicago Tribune reports that Al Gore stated Climate Deniers need to pay a price:

“AUSTIN, Texas — Former Vice President Al Gore on Friday called on SXSW attendees to punish climate-change deniers, saying politicians should pay a price for rejecting “accepted science.”

Gore said smart investors are moving away from companies tied to fossil fuels and toward companies investing in alternative energy.

“We need to put a price on carbon to accelerate these market trends,” Gore said, referring to a proposed federal cap-and-trade system that would penalize companies that exceeded their carbon-emission limits. “And in order to do that, we need to put a price on denial in politics.”



http://www.progressivestoday.com/al-gore-climate-deniers-need-to-pay-a-price/


 Smiley


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Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Blizzards hitting the Big Island as seen from space

MEDIA RELEASE
On March 12, 2015, a blizzard warning was in effect on the Big Island of Hawaii. That’s not a misprint; it has been snowing in Hawaii. Snow is not unprecedented on tropical peaks, but it is uncommon.
In the past week, the National Weather Service has issued several snowstorm and blizzard warnings for summits higher than 3,400 meters (11,000 feet) on the Big Island. The latest forecast called for freezing fog, strong winds, and blowing snow with possible accumulation of 5–10 centimeters (2–4 inches).
This storm could add to the total snowfall on Mauna Kea, which already had some accumulation from storms in the first week of March. The Operational Land Imager (OLI) on Landsat 8 captured a view of the snow-capped summit on March 10, 2015 (top); it was nearly bare on February 22 (bottom). Use the image comparison tool to see the changes.

http://www.hawaii247.com/2015/03/12/blizzards-hitting-the-big-island-as-seen-from-space/
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Activity: 1492
Merit: 763
Life is a taxable event



"If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."






"But the debate is settled. Climate change is a fact," said President Barack Obama in his 2014 State of the Union address. Saying the debate is settled is nonsense, but the president is right about climate change.

GlobalChange.gov gives the definition of climate change: "Changes in average weather conditions that persist over multiple decades or longer. Climate change encompasses both increases and decreases in temperature, as well as shifts in precipitation, changing risk of certain types of severe weather events, and changes to other features of the climate system." That definition covers all weather phenomena throughout all 4.54 billion years of Earth's existence.

You say, "Williams, that's not what the warmers are talking about. It's the high CO2 levels caused by mankind's industrial activities that are causing the climate change!" There's a problem with that reasoning. Today CO2 concentrations worldwide average about 380 parts per million. This level of CO2 concentration is trivial compared with the concentrations during earlier geologic periods. For example, 460 million years ago, during the Ordovician Period, CO2 concentrations were 4,400 ppm, and temperatures then were about the same as they are today. With such high levels of CO2, at least according to the warmers, the Earth should have been boiling.

Then there are warmer predictions. In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, warmers, such as the Union of Concerned Scientists, made all manner of doomsday predictions about global warming and the increased frequency of hurricanes. According to the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, "no Category 3-5 hurricane has struck the United States for a record nine years, and Earth's temperature has not budged for 18 years."

Climate change predictions have been wrong for decades. Let's look at some. At the first Earth Day celebration, in 1969, environmentalist Nigel Calder warned, "The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind." C.C. Wallen of the World Meteorological Organization said, "The cooling since 1940 has been large enough and consistent enough that it will not soon be reversed." In 1968, Professor Paul Ehrlich predicted that there would be a major food shortage in the U.S. and that "in the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of millions of people (would) starve to death." Ehrlich forecasted that 65 million Americans would die of starvation between 1980 and 1989 and that by 1999, the U.S. population would have declined to 22.6 million. Ehrlich's predictions about England were gloomier. He said, "If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."

In 1970, Harvard University biologist George Wald predicted, "Civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind." Sen. Gaylord Nelson, in Look magazine in April 1970, said that by 1995, "somewhere between 75 and 85 percent of all the species of living animals (would) be extinct."

Climate change propaganda is simply a ruse for a socialist agenda. Consider the statements of some environmentalist leaders. Christiana Figueres, the U.N.'s chief climate change official, said that her unelected bureaucrats are undertaking "probably the most difficult task" they have ever given themselves, "which is to intentionally transform the (global) economic development model." In 2010, German economist and Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change official Ottmar Edenhofer said, "One must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy." The article in which that interview appeared summarized Edenhofer's views this way: "Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental protection. ... The next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's resources will be negotiated."

The most disgusting aspect of the climate change debate is the statements by many that it's settled science. There is nothing more anti-scientific than the idea that any science is settled. Very often we find that the half-life of many scientific ideas is about 50 years. For academics to not criticize their colleagues and politicians for suggesting that scientific ideas are not subject to challenge is the height of academic dishonesty.


http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2015/03/11/global-warming-n1967847/page/full






The solar output of the sun and the inclination of the earth as well as the surface albedo characteristics have changed. CO2 is a thermostat, the rest of the climate system is the machine that brings us to where that thermostat points to.


California is experiencing extreme droughts right now and you can't deny the flooding caused by disasters in the very recent past.

Climate getting warmer was always in the vast majority of scientific opinion, quoting someone in the minority who got it wrong proves nothing.

Claiming that Science is tethered to a political agenda is utter bullshit as the two are very easily separable. There is no freedom to burn down forests and kill the environment. These things are and should be crimes.




This thread seems to have boiled down to a big circle jerk.

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Well, it´s actually small potatoes, so far at least

Quote

EPA Grant Number: SU835698
Title: Technology for the Reduction of Particulate Matter Emissions for Residential Propane BBQs
Investigators: Mende, Elizabeth , Cocker, David , Mejia, Alonso , Tam, Kawai
Institution: University of California - Riverside
EPA Project Officer: Lank, Gregory
Project Period: August 15, 2014 through August 14, 2015
Project Amount: $15,000
RFA: P3 Awards: A National Student Design Competition for Sustainability Focusing on People, Prosperity and the Planet (2014)
Research Category: Pollution Prevention/Sustainable Development , P3 Challenge Area - Built Environment

Description:

Objective:

To perform research and develop preventative technology that will reduce fine particulate emissions (PM2.5) from residential barbecues. This technology is intended to reduce air pollution as well as health hazards in Southern California, with potential for global application.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386

http://www.wwntradio.com/news/news.php/displayType/article/17435/2015/03/backyard-burger-and-wiener-roasts-targeted-by-epa

I had to double-check to see if this was satire.  Wasn't.  Every time the I think the EPA has finally jumped the shark something new comes along.

Quote
"We expect to limit the overall air pollution PM [particulate matter] emissions from barbecuing and to alleviate some of the acute health hazards that a barbecue pit master can experience from inhalation. The particulate matter present during cooking ...


There'd be nothing wrong with people learning about the Argentinian parilla style grill and using it, as long as they were not forced to.

But these guys don't know their stuff.  There is no such thing as a "barbecue pit master" that is using propane.

It's all wood or get laughed at.
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276

http://www.wwntradio.com/news/news.php/displayType/article/17435/2015/03/backyard-burger-and-wiener-roasts-targeted-by-epa

I had to double-check to see if this was satire.  Wasn't.  Every time the I think the EPA has finally jumped the shark something new comes along.

Quote
"We expect to limit the overall air pollution PM [particulate matter] emissions from barbecuing and to alleviate some of the acute health hazards that a barbecue pit master can experience from inhalation. The particulate matter present during cooking ...

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