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Topic: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. - page 58. (Read 636446 times)

legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
The Wind Might be ‘Free’, but Utterly Pointless Wind Power Costs a King’s Ransom

Germans Face Wind Powered Economic Nightmare: €Billions Squandered on Subsidies, as CO2 Emissions Rise

I recommend this site to understand some of the huge scams in this alternative energy business

http://stopthesethings.com/

I have had the impression that German politics was being manipulated by Russia to continue the dependancy on Russian natural gas.

true?

I doubt it. Germany is a U.S. vassal state, it´s under occupation. I guess that only power manipulating it is the occupying power. Russian occupying forces left Germany 20 years ago.

No.  Read about that russian pipeline.  It's an economic issue of domination.

They´ll have to get the gas from somewhere. If not from Russia then from where? It´s a country of 80 million people with huge industries. You don´t just abolish gas like that for other energy sources which are far from  competitive anyway. If you don´t have competitive energy costs you´re not competitive at all.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
The problem with oil, coal and natural gas (if it´s a problem) is that the world is absolutely swimming in the stuff and therefore it´s cheap and cost-effective. It´s always about to run out according to those usual preachers of scarcity but they´re just not in touch with reality.

And when you´re competing with dirt cheap energy sources with that carbon menace hanging over you it´s those alternative energy sources and endless subsidies you end up with.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1038
The Wind Might be ‘Free’, but Utterly Pointless Wind Power Costs a King’s Ransom

Germans Face Wind Powered Economic Nightmare: €Billions Squandered on Subsidies, as CO2 Emissions Rise

I recommend this site to understand some of the huge scams in this alternative energy business

http://stopthesethings.com/

I have had the impression that German politics was being manipulated by Russia to continue the dependancy on Russian natural gas.

true?

I doubt it. Germany is a U.S. vassal state, it´s under occupation. I guess that only power manipulating it is the occupying power. Russian occupying forces left Germany 20 years ago.

No.  Read about that russian pipeline.  It's an economic issue of domination.

They´ll have to get the gas from somewhere. If not from Russia then from where? It´s a country of 80 million people with huge industries. You don´t just abolish gas like that for other energy sources which are far from  competitive anyway. If you don´t have competitive energy costs you´re not competitive at all.

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
In 2014, Germany consumed energy from the following sources:

Oil 35.0%
Bituminous coal 12.6%
Lignite 12.0%
Natural gas 20.4%
Nuclear power 8.1%
Hydropower, windpower, solar 2.1%
Other renewable 9.0%
Others 1-2%

Half of Germany's timber production is consumed by wood fired plants. Wood fired plants are counted as renewable energy by Germany and the European Union counting them as "carbon neutral".
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
The Wind Might be ‘Free’, but Utterly Pointless Wind Power Costs a King’s Ransom

Germans Face Wind Powered Economic Nightmare: €Billions Squandered on Subsidies, as CO2 Emissions Rise

I recommend this site to understand some of the huge scams in this alternative energy business

http://stopthesethings.com/

I have had the impression that German politics was being manipulated by Russia to continue the dependancy on Russian natural gas.

true?

I doubt it. Germany is a U.S. vassal state, it´s under occupation. I guess that only power manipulating it is the occupying power. Russian occupying forces left Germany 20 years ago.

No.  Read about that russian pipeline.  It's an economic issue of domination.

They´ll have to get the gas from somewhere. If not from Russia then from where? It´s a country of 80 million people with huge industries. You don´t just abolish gas like that for other energy sources which are far from  competitive anyway. If you don´t have competitive energy costs you´re not competitive at all.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
The Wind Might be ‘Free’, but Utterly Pointless Wind Power Costs a King’s Ransom

Germans Face Wind Powered Economic Nightmare: €Billions Squandered on Subsidies, as CO2 Emissions Rise

I recommend this site to understand some of the huge scams in this alternative energy business

http://stopthesethings.com/

I have had the impression that German politics was being manipulated by Russia to continue the dependancy on Russian natural gas.

true?

I doubt it. Germany is a U.S. vassal state, it´s under occupation. I guess that only power manipulating it is the occupying power. Russian occupying forces left Germany 20 years ago.

No.  Read about that russian pipeline.  It's an economic issue of domination.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
The Wind Might be ‘Free’, but Utterly Pointless Wind Power Costs a King’s Ransom

Germans Face Wind Powered Economic Nightmare: €Billions Squandered on Subsidies, as CO2 Emissions Rise

I recommend this site to understand some of the huge scams in this alternative energy business

http://stopthesethings.com/

I have had the impression that German politics was being manipulated by Russia to continue the dependancy on Russian natural gas.

true?

I doubt it. Germany is a U.S. vassal state, it´s under occupation. I guess that only power manipulating it is the occupying power. Russian occupying forces left Germany 20 years ago.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
I didnt say that a better food management would be the solution for poverty in the world but it would for sure help the starving people.

There are usually a lot of different problems coming together in 3rd world nations - from economic to social problems.

But overall we need to tackle the basic things first:
Food, education and shelter.

Without the basics i dont think there can be much improvement.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
The Wind Might be ‘Free’, but Utterly Pointless Wind Power Costs a King’s Ransom

Germans Face Wind Powered Economic Nightmare: €Billions Squandered on Subsidies, as CO2 Emissions Rise

I recommend this site to understand some of the huge scams in this alternative energy business

http://stopthesethings.com/

I have had the impression that German politics was being manipulated by Russia to continue the dependancy on Russian natural gas.

true?
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
The Wind Might be ‘Free’, but Utterly Pointless Wind Power Costs a King’s Ransom

Germans Face Wind Powered Economic Nightmare: €Billions Squandered on Subsidies, as CO2 Emissions Rise

I recommend this site to understand some of the huge scams in this alternative energy business

http://stopthesethings.com/
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
It´s a problem in the eyes of those who create this global warming menace. It´s an agenda which becomes policy and then it becomes a trillion dollar industry with its trading and taxing bubbles in tow.
Well, the vote in the UN, due to the composition of it, would certainly be as you say.

Many African nations have the notable distinction of foreign aid being the major source of income.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
It´s a problem in the eyes of those who create this global warming menace. It´s an agenda which becomes policy and then it becomes a trillion dollar industry with its trading and taxing bubbles in tow.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
^

The analysis is wrong on many levels.
Right now there is enough space to grow enough food for 9-10 billion people.
Main problem is though majority of food is grown in industry nation where 30-40% of good edible food is wasted and thrown away.

On the other side starving people just cant afford the money to buy food.

Just by improving our food managment - i.e. like france is doing right now - would be a big step ahead.

Bolded above is not actually a problem.  For example suppose by edict you move some of the food around, then ten years later the impoverished areas are again impoverished.  For a while they ate good, everyone had the normal number of births, 6 per family, then that many more people were impoverished and starving.

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
^

The analysis is wrong on many levels.
Right now there is enough space to grow enough food for 9-10 billion people.
Main problem is though majority of food is grown in industry nation where 30-40% of good edible food is wasted and thrown away.

On the other side starving people just cant afford the money to buy food.

Just by improving our food managment - i.e. like france is doing right now - would be a big step ahead.

The world is totally drowning in food. There is record crop yield year after year. Most commodities are at a multi year even 20 year bottom. It´s staggering abundance but also stupendous waste. It´s true, much of all this food is being thrown away.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
^

The analysis is wrong on many levels.
Right now there is enough space to grow enough food for 9-10 billion people.
Main problem is though majority of food is grown in industry nation where 30-40% of good edible food is wasted and thrown away.

On the other side starving people just cant afford the money to buy food.

Just by improving our food managment - i.e. like france is doing right now - would be a big step ahead.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Human Ecology: Problems & Solutions

Paul Ehrlich, Anne Ehrlich, &  John Holdren

Chapter TEN

Synthesis and Recommendations

[Page 277]

Summary

To recapitulate, we would outline the present world situation as follows:

1.      Considering present technology and patterns of human behavior, our planet is grossly overpopulated. Between 2 and 3 billion people are not being properly cared for now. Under such circumstances, the contention of some that many more people can be easily and properly cared for in the near future is preposterous. When every human being has abundant and varied food, ade­quate clothing and shelter, first-rate medical care, ample educational oppor­tunity, and freedom from war and tyranny, then perhaps consideration of whether more people can be given first-class accommodation on Spaceship Earth will be appropriate.

2.      The large absolute number of people and the rate of population growth are themselves major hindrances to fulfilling the above-named needs of all of mankind.

3.      The limits of human capability to produce food by conventional means have very nearly been reached. Problems of supply and distribution already have resulted in roughly half of humanity being undernourished or malnour­ished. As many as 10-20 million people are starving to death annually.

4.      Attempts to increase food production further will tend to accelerate the deterioration of our environment, which in turn may eventually reduce the capacity of the Earth to produce food. It is not clear whether environmental decay has now gone so far as to be essentially irreversible; it is possible that [Page 278] the capacity of the planet to support human beings has been permanently im­paired.

5.      There is good reason to believe that population growth increases the probability of a lethal worldwide plague and of a thermonuclear war. Either could provide a catastrophic “death-rate solution” to the population problem; each is potentially capable of destroying civilization and even of driving Homo sapiens to extinction.

6.      Perhaps more likely than extinction is the possibility that man will sur­vive only to endure an existence barely recognizable as human-malnourished, beset by chronic disease, physically and emotionally impoverished, sur­rounded by the devastation wrought by an industrial civilization that could not cope with the results of its own biological and social folly.

7.        There are no simple answers to these threats, no technological panaceas for the complex of problems comprising the population-food-environment crisis. Of course, technology, properly applied in such areas as pollution abate­ment, communications, and fertility control, can provide valuable assistance. But the essential solutions entail dramatic and rapid changes in human atti­tudes, especially those relating to reproductive behavior, economic growth, technology, the environment, and resolution of conflicts.

Recommendations: A Positive Program

Although our conclusions are necessarily rather pessimistic, we wish to em­phasize our belief that the problems can be solved. Whether they will be solved is another question. A general course of action that we feel will have some chance of ameliorating the results of the current crisis is outlined below. Many of the suggestions will seem “unrealistic,” and indeed that is how we view them. But the world has been allowed to run downhill for so long that only idealistic and very far-reaching programs offer any hope for the future.

1        Population control is absolutely essential if the problems now facing mankind are to be solved. It is not, however, a panacea. If population growth were halted immediately, virtually all other human problems–poverty, racial tensions, urban blight, environmental decay, warfare-would remain. On the other hand, direct attacks on these problems will ultimately fail if the human population continues to grow. The situation is best summarized in the state­ment: “Whatever your cause, it’s a lost cause without population control.”

2        Political pressure must be applied immediately to induce the United States government to assume its responsibility to halt the growth of the Ameri­can population. Once growth is halted, the government should undertake to influence the birth rate so that the population is reduced to an optimum size and maintained there. It is essential that a grassroots political movement be [Page 279]generated to convince our legislators and the executive branch of the govern­ment that they must act promptly. The program should be based on what poli­ticians understand best-votes. Presidents, Congressmen, Senators, and other elected officials who do not deal effectively with the crisis must be defeated at the polls, and more intelligent and responsible candidates must be elected. It is unfortunate that at the time of the greatest crisis the United States and the world have ever faced, many Americans, especially the young, have given up hope that the government can be modernized and changed in direction through the functioning of the elective process. Their despair may have some founda­tion, but we see no choice but to launch a prolonged and determined attempt to wrest control of the political system from the special interests which now run it and to turn it over to the people.

3        A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environ­ment in North America and to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system (especially patterns of consumption) into line with the realities of ecology and the global resource situation. Resources and energy must be diverted from frivolous and wasteful uses in overdevel­oped countries to filling the genuine needs of underdeveloped countries. This effort must be largely political, especially with regard to our overexploitation of world resources, but the campaign should be strongly supplemented by legal and boycott action against polluters and others whose activities damage the environment. The need for de–development presents our economists with a major challenge. They must design a stable, low–consumption economy in which there is a much more equitable distribution of wealth than in the present one. Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential, if a decent life is to be provided for every human being.

4        Once the United States has clearly started on the path of cleaning up its own mess, it can then turn its attention to the problems of the de–development of the other DCs, population control, and ecologically feasible development of the UDCs. It must use every peaceful means at its disposal to persuade the Soviet Union and other DCs to join the effort, in line with the general proposals of Lord Snow and Academician Sakharov.

5        Perhaps the major necessary ingredient that has been missing from a solution to the problems of both the United States and the rest of the world is a goal, a vision of the kind of Spaceship Earth that ought to be and the kind of crew that should man her. Society has always had its visionaries who talked of love, beauty, peace, and plenty. But somehow the “practical” men have always been there to praise smog as a sign of progress, to preach “just” wars, and to restrict love while giving hate free rein. It must be one of the greatest ironies of the history of the human species that the only salvation for the practical men now lies in what they think of as the dreams of idealists. The question now is: can the self-proclaimed “realists” be persuaded to face reality in time?

- See more at: http://www.cfact.org/2014/05/31/john-holdren-in-his-own-radical-words/#sthash.gf8d1PJF.dGo20Y7s.dpuf
hero member
Activity: 616
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Environmentalism as Religion by Michael Crichton

In 2003 Michael Crichton sent the Ecology industry into a rage by exposing them as a religion. He can get away with it because he has both the science background and enough money not to be silenced by the eco-lobby. In fact environmentalism is as much a fundamentalist' religion as that of Pat Robertson. He is correct about the religious undertones, but it's also a political movement as he points out.

In 2008 global warming has fallen off the radar as the presidential election, high energy costs, and the Wall Street meltdown have dominated the news. But this one article seems to have been left out of the discussion. Besides reports of such record cold in Mongolia killing people and livestock, the December 19, 2007 Washington Times reports:

"In Buenos Aires (Argentina), snow fell for the first time since the year 1918. Dozens of homeless people died from exposure. In Peru, 200 people died from the cold...(in 2007) Johannesburg, South Africa, had the first significant snowfall in 26 years. Australia...New Zealand...weather turned so cold..."


Remarks to the Commonwealth Club by Michael Crichton San Francisco September 15, 2003 (Extract)

I have been asked to talk about what I consider the most important challenge facing mankind, and I have a fundamental answer. The greatest challenge facing mankind is the challenge of distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda. Perceiving the truth has always been a challenge to mankind, but in the information age (or as I think of it, the disinformation age) it takes on a special urgency and importance.

We must daily decide whether the threats we face are real, whether the solutions we are offered will do any good, whether the problems we're told exist are in fact real problems, or non-problems. Every one of us has a sense of the world, and we all know that this sense is in part given to us by what other people and society tell us; in part generated by our emotional state, which we project outward; and in part by our genuine perceptions of reality. In short, our struggle to determine what is true is the struggle to decide which of our perceptions are genuine, and which are false because they are handed down, or sold to us, or generated by our own hopes and fears.

As an example of this challenge, I want to talk today about environmentalism. And in order not to be misunderstood, I want it perfectly clear that I believe it is incumbent on us to conduct our lives in a way that takes into account all the consequences of our actions, including the consequences to other people, and the consequences to the environment. I believe it is important to act in ways that are sympathetic to the environment, and I believe this will always be a need, carrying into the future.

I believe the world has genuine problems and I believe it can and should be improved. But I also think that deciding what constitutes responsible action is immensely difficult, and the consequences of our actions are often difficult to know in advance. I think our past record of environmental action is discouraging, to put it mildly, because even our best intended efforts often go awry. But I think we do not recognize our past failures, and face them squarely. And I think I know why.

I studied anthropology in college, and one of the things I learned was that certain human social structures always reappear. They can't be eliminated from society. One of those structures is religion. Today it is said we live in a secular society in which many people---the best people, the most enlightened people---do not believe in any religion. But I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely re-emerges in another form. You can not believe in God, but you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.

Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.

There's an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there's a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.

Eden, the fall of man, the loss of grace, the coming doomsday---these are deeply held mythic structures. They are profoundly conservative beliefs. They may even be hard-wired in the brain, for all I know. I certainly don't want to talk anybody out of them, as I don't want to talk anybody out of a belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God who rose from the dead. But the reason I don't want to talk anybody out of these beliefs is that I know that I can't talk anybody out of them. These are not facts that can be argued. These are issues of faith.

And so it is, sadly, with environmentalism. Increasingly it seems facts aren't necessary, because the tenets of environmentalism are all about belief. It's about whether you are going to be a sinner, or saved. Whether you are going to be one of the people on the side of salvation, or on the side of doom. Whether you are going to be one of us, or one of them.

Am I exaggerating to make a point? I am afraid not. Because we know a lot more about the world than we did forty or fifty years ago. And what we know now is not so supportive of certain core environmental myths, yet the myths do not die. Let's examine some of those beliefs.

There is no Eden. There never was. What was that Eden of the wonderful mythic past? Is it the time when infant mortality was 80%, when four children in five died of disease before the age of five? When one woman in six died in childbirth? When the average lifespan was 40, as it was in America a century ago. When plagues swept across the planet, killing millions in a stroke. Was it when millions starved to death? Is that when it was Eden?

...In short, the romantic view of the natural world as a blissful Eden is only held by people who have no actual experience of nature. People who live in nature are not romantic about it at all. They may hold spiritual beliefs about the world around them, they may have a sense of the unity of nature or the aliveness of all things... If Eden is a fantasy that never existed, and mankind wasn't ever noble and kind and loving, if we didn't fall from grace, then what about the rest of the religious tenets? What about salvation, sustainability, and judgment day? What about the coming environmental doom from fossil fuels and global warming, if we all don't get down on our knees and conserve every day?

Well, it's interesting. You may have noticed that something has been left off the doomsday list, lately. Although the preachers of environmentalism have been yelling about population for fifty years, over the last decade world population seems to be taking an unexpected turn. Fertility rates are falling almost everywhere.

As a result, over the course of my lifetime the thoughtful predictions for total world population have gone from a high of 20 billion, to 15 billion, to 11 billion (which was the UN estimate around 1990) to now 9 billion, and soon, perhaps less. There are some who think that world population will peak in 2050 and then start to decline. There are some who predict we will have fewer people in 2100 than we do today.

Is this a reason to rejoice, to say halleluiah? Certainly not. Without a pause, we now hear about the coming crisis of world economy from a shrinking population. We hear about the impending crisis of an aging population. Nobody anywhere will say that the core fears expressed for most of my life have turned out not to be true...

Okay, so, the preachers made a mistake. They got one prediction wrong; they're human. So what. Unfortunately, it's not just one prediction. It's a whole slew of them. We are running out of oil. We are running out of all natural resources. Paul Ehrlich: 60 million Americans will die of starvation in the 1980s. Forty thousand species become extinct every year.

Half of all species on the planet will be extinct by 2000. And on and on and on. With so many past failures, you might think that environmental predictions would become more cautious. But not if it's a religion. Remember, the nut on the sidewalk carrying the placard that predicts the end of the world doesn't quit when the world doesn't end on the day he expects.

He just changes his placard, sets a new doomsday date, and goes back to walking the streets. One of the defining features of religion is that your beliefs are not troubled by facts, because they have nothing to do with facts.

...I can cite the appropriate journal articles not in whacko magazines, but in the most prestigeous science journals, such as Science and Nature. But such references probably won't impact more than a handful of you, because the beliefs of a religion are not dependant on facts, but rather are matters of faith. Unshakeable belief.



Fundamentalism

Most of us have had some experience interacting with religious fundamentalists, and we understand that one of the problems with fundamentalists is that they have no perspective on themselves. They never recognize that their way of thinking is just one of many other possible ways of thinking, which may be equally useful or good.

On the contrary, they believe their way is the right way, everyone else is wrong; they are in the business of salvation, and they want to help you to see things the right way. They want to help you be saved. They are totally rigid and totally uninterested in opposing points of view. In our modern complex world, fundamentalism is dangerous because of its rigidity and its imperviousness to other ideas.

I want to argue that it is now time for us to make a major shift in our thinking about the environment, similar to the shift that occurred around the first Earth Day in 1970, when this awareness was first heightened. But this time around, we need to get environmentalism out of the sphere of religion. We need to stop the mythic fantasies, and we need to stop the doomsday predictions. We need to start doing hard science instead.

There are two reasons why I think we all need to get rid of the religion of environmentalism.

First, we need an environmental movement, and such a movement is not very effective if it is conducted as a religion. We know from history that religions tend to kill people, and environmentalism has already killed somewhere between 10-30 million people since the 1970s. It's not a good record. Environmentalism needs to be absolutely based in objective and verifiable science, it needs to be rational, and it needs to be flexible...

How will we manage to get environmentalism out of the clutches of religion, and back to a scientific discipline? There's a simple answer: we must institute far more stringent requirements for what constitutes knowledge in the environmental realm. I am thoroughly sick of politicized so-called facts that simply aren't true. It isn't that these "facts" are exaggerations of an underlying truth.

Nor is it that certain organizations are spinning their case to present it in the strongest way. Not at all---what more and more groups are doing is putting out is lies, pure and simple. Falsehoods that they know to be false...

At this moment, the EPA is hopelessly politicized. In the wake of Carol Browner, it is probably better to shut it down and start over. What we need is a new organization much closer to the FDA. We need an organization that will be ruthless about acquiring verifiable results, that will fund identical research projects to more than one group, and that will make everybody in this field get honest fast...So it's time to abandon the religion of environmentalism, and return to the science of environmentalism, and base our public policy decisions firmly on that.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/e2.html
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Record Cold Headed For U.S. Midwest, East

MARCH 26, 2016

“Could spell peril for blossoming fruit trees and shrubs from parts of the Ohio and Tennessee valleys as well as portions of the Northeast,”
legendary
Activity: 2912
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Please use ordinary weather events to propagate the agreed upon narrative.

Let no weather go to waste.

Smiley
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