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Topic: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. - page 80. (Read 636443 times)

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon
A centralized system to force humans to do something, anything, instead of doing nothing I agree with... That is why I love bitcoin...

 Roll Eyes


You can't have anything decentralized about climate. Because if we disagree (as it seems we do) our points of view are not compatible. You believe that we don't have to worry about CO2, I believe we do. We can discuss about it as civil people, but if you can't convince me and I can't convince you, we'll have a problem. Cause I believe that if you pollute it will impact me.

So either we agree on something, either we fight and one of use imposes his point of view to the other. Cause we're not compatible. So a centralized system is mandatory here!


Who do you know believes CO2 is a pollutant, beside yourself? All the plants and trees in the world disagree with you.

A centralized system imposes its will, point of view by force. If you agree with the tyrant then this force is good, if not, then you are meat.

You have a very 1 or 0 position: So either we agree on something, either we fight. This is far from being my position. As proof, you are totally free to use scientific facts and links, as you have been known to do all this time in this thread...



legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
A centralized system to force humans to do something, anything, instead of doing nothing I agree with... That is why I love bitcoin...

 Roll Eyes


You can't have anything decentralized about climate. Because if we disagree (as it seems we do) our points of view are not compatible. You believe that we don't have to worry about CO2, I believe we do. We can discuss about it as civil people, but if you can't convince me and I can't convince you, we'll have a problem. Cause I believe that if you pollute it will impact me.

So either we agree on something, either we fight and one of use imposes his point of view to the other. Cause we're not compatible. So a centralized system is mandatory here!

Not really.  For example, cloud seeding technology and other ways to initiate or increase rain has been around for decades.  But it produces regional effects, not effects which are global.  Many, many examples of regional "climate change' due to humans can be cited.  And with the exception of cloud seeding, there are almost no examples of regional climate engineering.

A rather interesting example is the Australian rabbit fence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/science/earth/14fenc.html

Purposeful regional climate change/control has barely been studied, but power hungry control freaks would like to take control through the UN.  Their goal is only power.   They don't care about your or my welfare.

When you think about it, there should be no issue with increasing hydrological cycles when wind moves humid air inland from a coastline.  In the case of Austalia, rain is seldom because there are not enough land elevation changes to cause condensation, cloud formation and rain.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
No, you misunderstand what I said.  Here it is summarized.

A.  IF the politicians and there plans are implemented and operate as they wish, to lower CO2 and prevent the planet from warming - can you be reasonably sure this will not accelerate the next ice age, which is considered "overdue?"  What is "reasonably sure?"  IMHO this is a serious issue and a serious question.

B.  IF the politicians and their plans are ineffective, because the tax money just goes to their friends, and the penalties seem to only go to their enemies, then you and I do not have to worry about adverse effects from their actions.  Because there isn't any effect at all from their actions, lol.

Ah ok, you're wondering if by trying to regulate climate we could start the ice age!
Well that's a possibility. The fact is we would need a strong government (a world one, cause we all need to do the same thing otherwise it's useless) to research in deep the impact of it. Your question might be legit, but it can be answered only through un influenced research.

And I seriously trust that your B is correct  Grin
We don't need to worry about any impact of politics. They never do anything substential sadly enough...
Then "B" is just another fraudulent taxation scheme.  No reason to support it, whether we believe in "global warming" or not.
full member
Activity: 756
Merit: 100
A centralized system to force humans to do something, anything, instead of doing nothing I agree with... That is why I love bitcoin...

 Roll Eyes


You can't have anything decentralized about climate. Because if we disagree (as it seems we do) our points of view are not compatible. You believe that we don't have to worry about CO2, I believe we do. We can discuss about it as civil people, but if you can't convince me and I can't convince you, we'll have a problem. Cause I believe that if you pollute it will impact me.

So either we agree on something, either we fight and one of use imposes his point of view to the other. Cause we're not compatible. So a centralized system is mandatory here!
full member
Activity: 756
Merit: 100
No, you misunderstand what I said.  Here it is summarized.

A.  IF the politicians and there plans are implemented and operate as they wish, to lower CO2 and prevent the planet from warming - can you be reasonably sure this will not accelerate the next ice age, which is considered "overdue?"  What is "reasonably sure?"  IMHO this is a serious issue and a serious question.

B.  IF the politicians and their plans are ineffective, because the tax money just goes to their friends, and the penalties seem to only go to their enemies, then you and I do not have to worry about adverse effects from their actions.  Because there isn't any effect at all from their actions, lol.

Ah ok, you're wondering if by trying to regulate climate we could start the ice age!
Well that's a possibility. The fact is we would need a strong government (a world one, cause we all need to do the same thing otherwise it's useless) to research in deep the impact of it. Your question might be legit, but it can be answered only through un influenced research.

And I seriously trust that your B is correct  Grin
We don't need to worry about any impact of politics. They never do anything substential sadly enough...
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386

A centralized system to force humans to do something, anything, instead of doing nothing I agree with... That is why I love bitcoin...


Extreme weather events cause agricultural losses.  That's a fact.  So we've been beset with massive new extreme weather?  The media tells us that!

Then why are crops at all time highs?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/01/11/global-agricultural-production-demonstrates-ramankutty-et-al-is-just-more-global-warming-hot-air/
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1001
minds.com/Wilikon
You may find this of interest.  Keep in mind these sorts of articles are often highly speculative, but still worth reviewing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/13/scientists-say-humans-have-basically-canceled-the-next-ice-age/?postshare=1791452710414197&tid=ss_tw

Here is the actual article print.

http://www.nature.com/articles/nature16494.epdf?referrer_access_token=ozTSCaB0lyelSRTWwlncYdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Nnp0x6oazde2YSWXfqxcE5e6t9gAzUt9lu7e6WSDVZ241X9dPiozKLtf3BYyMTSqIHQIgVAurDgIdbRA7DmktIOpRHyFw09GYfR3yKJ6MCwABfUX2uwcCfY_fuK06xxr7LDw8Cfd0Ph0fpiEcbMARGndvz8-zXJBxCz5DqNEzxo_181kx8kcm09fYlhVb-7Vslemt4GmHzyIuZ8RuZMXEpgCqWD3heyVL9EBCY_YKp8gOi6fjjh1vNtDa0IydvGy5Bm1Eq7Bf9FF9MJjZuQn4Wav42oWIzykJrX0Jj5HRXJg%3D%3D&tracking_referrer=www.washingtonpost.com

Using this data set and general direction of thinking, the contemporary version of Pascal's Wager you mentioned may be turned inside out:

Regarding use of political force and taxing authority to penalize carbon emissions, can you be reasonably sure that the effect of these measures will not provoke or accelerate the next ice age? 

Interesting articles. I like the idea of humanity being able to control the global climate of Earth  Grin

But as you said in a previous post, most of the problem is to make whole humanity advance in the same direction. This would need an international government, the discussion between countries can't lead to anything.

I still think it's better to try something than just sitting here saying "meh, we can't know, it won't work"

And about what you said about politics robbing people and missusing money: it's not a proof of anything. Politicians rob the people all the time for everything, you can't say that because they don't do things well things shouldn't be done. If you take that into account then let me be straight: we shouldn't do anything. Any law voted at the moment was made by and for the rich. Banks lead the world and the three richest families decide of everything.

But if you want to actually discuss you got to ignore those facts, otherwise you can't conclude anything else but "we should take them, hang them, then think again about what we can do"  Grin


A centralized system to force humans to do something, anything, instead of doing nothing I agree with... That is why I love bitcoin...

 Roll Eyes


legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
You may find this of interest.  Keep in mind these sorts of articles are often highly speculative, but still worth reviewing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/13/scientists-say-humans-have-basically-canceled-the-next-ice-age/?postshare=1791452710414197&tid=ss_tw

Here is the actual article print.

http://www.nature.com/articles/nature16494.epdf?referrer_access_token=ozTSCaB0lyelSRTWwlncYdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Nnp0x6oazde2YSWXfqxcE5e6t9gAzUt9lu7e6WSDVZ241X9dPiozKLtf3BYyMTSqIHQIgVAurDgIdbRA7DmktIOpRHyFw09GYfR3yKJ6MCwABfUX2uwcCfY_fuK06xxr7LDw8Cfd0Ph0fpiEcbMARGndvz8-zXJBxCz5DqNEzxo_181kx8kcm09fYlhVb-7Vslemt4GmHzyIuZ8RuZMXEpgCqWD3heyVL9EBCY_YKp8gOi6fjjh1vNtDa0IydvGy5Bm1Eq7Bf9FF9MJjZuQn4Wav42oWIzykJrX0Jj5HRXJg%3D%3D&tracking_referrer=www.washingtonpost.com

Using this data set and general direction of thinking, the contemporary version of Pascal's Wager you mentioned may be turned inside out:

Regarding use of political force and taxing authority to penalize carbon emissions, can you be reasonably sure that the effect of these measures will not provoke or accelerate the next ice age? 

Interesting articles. I like the idea of humanity being able to control the global climate of Earth  Grin

But as you said in a previous post, most of the problem is to make whole humanity advance in the same direction. This would need an international government, the discussion between countries can't lead to anything.

I still think it's better to try something than just sitting here saying "meh, we can't know, it won't work"

And about what you said about politics robbing people and missusing money: it's not a proof of anything. Politicians rob the people all the time for everything, you can't say that because they don't do things well things shouldn't be done. If you take that into account then let me be straight: we shouldn't do anything. Any law voted at the moment was made by and for the rich. Banks lead the world and the three richest families decide of everything.

But if you want to actually discuss you got to ignore those facts, otherwise you can't conclude anything else but "we should take them, hang them, then think again about what we can do"  Grin
No, you misunderstand what I said.  Here it is summarized.

A.  IF the politicians and there plans are implemented and operate as they wish, to lower CO2 and prevent the planet from warming - can you be reasonably sure this will not accelerate the next ice age, which is considered "overdue?"  What is "reasonably sure?"  IMHO this is a serious issue and a serious question.

B.  IF the politicians and their plans are ineffective, because the tax money just goes to their friends, and the penalties seem to only go to their enemies, then you and I do not have to worry about adverse effects from their actions.  Because there isn't any effect at all from their actions, lol.
full member
Activity: 756
Merit: 100
You may find this of interest.  Keep in mind these sorts of articles are often highly speculative, but still worth reviewing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/13/scientists-say-humans-have-basically-canceled-the-next-ice-age/?postshare=1791452710414197&tid=ss_tw

Here is the actual article print.

http://www.nature.com/articles/nature16494.epdf?referrer_access_token=ozTSCaB0lyelSRTWwlncYdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Nnp0x6oazde2YSWXfqxcE5e6t9gAzUt9lu7e6WSDVZ241X9dPiozKLtf3BYyMTSqIHQIgVAurDgIdbRA7DmktIOpRHyFw09GYfR3yKJ6MCwABfUX2uwcCfY_fuK06xxr7LDw8Cfd0Ph0fpiEcbMARGndvz8-zXJBxCz5DqNEzxo_181kx8kcm09fYlhVb-7Vslemt4GmHzyIuZ8RuZMXEpgCqWD3heyVL9EBCY_YKp8gOi6fjjh1vNtDa0IydvGy5Bm1Eq7Bf9FF9MJjZuQn4Wav42oWIzykJrX0Jj5HRXJg%3D%3D&tracking_referrer=www.washingtonpost.com

Using this data set and general direction of thinking, the contemporary version of Pascal's Wager you mentioned may be turned inside out:

Regarding use of political force and taxing authority to penalize carbon emissions, can you be reasonably sure that the effect of these measures will not provoke or accelerate the next ice age? 

Interesting articles. I like the idea of humanity being able to control the global climate of Earth  Grin

But as you said in a previous post, most of the problem is to make whole humanity advance in the same direction. This would need an international government, the discussion between countries can't lead to anything.

I still think it's better to try something than just sitting here saying "meh, we can't know, it won't work"

And about what you said about politics robbing people and missusing money: it's not a proof of anything. Politicians rob the people all the time for everything, you can't say that because they don't do things well things shouldn't be done. If you take that into account then let me be straight: we shouldn't do anything. Any law voted at the moment was made by and for the rich. Banks lead the world and the three richest families decide of everything.

But if you want to actually discuss you got to ignore those facts, otherwise you can't conclude anything else but "we should take them, hang them, then think again about what we can do"  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 1422
Actually, from the humidity, wind, and temperature record presented, it certainly does look like "front passage."  By the way, a more accurate number would be to go from (say) 12 noon one day, to 12 noon the next.  Or max min for the 2 days.  As presented there is likely 5C error in the range due to differing times.

By the way, you certainly can use statistical variance to determine significant variation from climatic norms.  All the records are available to do this, at least in the USA I know.  You can just use the last 30 years, that should be fine.

You know, even without all the scientific stuff, weather became rather crazy gotta admit that. Never had a winter like that truly xD

So don't know if it's mankind fault or not, but there is still something coming. And I don't think burning our fuel is helping reducing it!

Btw, you didn't answer on the heat produces by us compared to the sun, I'm still sure it's not that low you know?

I totally agree with you: humans are disturbing this planet's stability but... as George Carlin said once Nature will take its chance to regulate itself again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjfiIow-eW0


The trouble was never to destroy Nature, I'm pretty sure Nature will be fine with what we're doing.
But Nature "regulation" might not take mankind survival into account  Grin

Of course! We have no power against something which is totally unknown to us. These guys can think they own the weather they can do some mess for a while on Earth but Earth/Nature eventually will clean itself. To me it will all end up in a big sneeze  Grin and we'll be gone

atchaaa! Grin

Bless you!
Not this time, not now. Let me become filthy rich and then, only then, you may be able to sneeze.
 Grin
And what if that "something coming" is an ice age?

We are about overdue for one, you know.

So be it.
Data show sun activity is decreasing and so it is its power to warm the Earth. It's not a thing of today, it will be a process but to me our efforts to modify and change the weather are only making things worse.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386

Joule count of human fuel was not the question I was talking about, it was merely a philosophical question I'm not claiming anything.

What I am asking is: do you really believe that humans have no global impact on environment?

It's an easy Yes or No question man  Smiley
 Sure, I will answer your rigged question.

The answer is of course humans have an impact on the earth, and the subset of the earth known as the environment.  We have an effect on the entire universe at least for a hundred light year radius.  Just think, we've polluted that sphere with traces of our radio waves.

Your question is rigged by way of the Zero.  If we had 1.7 10^-15C effect on temperature, then the answer would be YES.  Therefore, for a universe with one cockroach, that cockroach would have an effect on the universe, measurable out to a light cone whose distance is proportional to it's age.  

What you really want to address, I would think, is something like "a significant impact" or "a statistically significant impact."

These are really the practical questions.  

It was not meant to be rigged, not everything is a hidden attack  Wink

Of course the idea was "significant"! But you're misled in my attempt. What I wanted to show is not that human have a significant impact.

Only two solution:
-we have a significant impact. Then it's important to control this impact and to be aware of it. Thus your position is a bit weird as you promote the inaction or at least the non coordinated action.
-We don't have a significant impact, then why not letting us trying to control it? It won't hurt anyone to try to be ecolo friendly even is it might be a bit useless no?

It's a bit like the Pascal bet, but with much less flaws  Cheesy

You may find this of interest.  Keep in mind these sorts of articles are often highly speculative, but still worth reviewing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/01/13/scientists-say-humans-have-basically-canceled-the-next-ice-age/?postshare=1791452710414197&tid=ss_tw

Here is the actual article print.

http://www.nature.com/articles/nature16494.epdf?referrer_access_token=ozTSCaB0lyelSRTWwlncYdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Nnp0x6oazde2YSWXfqxcE5e6t9gAzUt9lu7e6WSDVZ241X9dPiozKLtf3BYyMTSqIHQIgVAurDgIdbRA7DmktIOpRHyFw09GYfR3yKJ6MCwABfUX2uwcCfY_fuK06xxr7LDw8Cfd0Ph0fpiEcbMARGndvz8-zXJBxCz5DqNEzxo_181kx8kcm09fYlhVb-7Vslemt4GmHzyIuZ8RuZMXEpgCqWD3heyVL9EBCY_YKp8gOi6fjjh1vNtDa0IydvGy5Bm1Eq7Bf9FF9MJjZuQn4Wav42oWIzykJrX0Jj5HRXJg%3D%3D&tracking_referrer=www.washingtonpost.com

Using this data set and general direction of thinking, the contemporary version of Pascal's Wager you mentioned may be turned inside out:

Regarding use of political force and taxing authority to penalize carbon emissions, can you be reasonably sure that the effect of these measures will not provoke or accelerate the next ice age? 
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1001
All cryptos are FIAT digital currency. Do not use.
People with narcissistic personality disorder are characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance. They have a sense of entitlement and demonstrate grandiosity in their beliefs and behavior. They have a strong need for admiration, but lack feelings of empathy.

Well, maybe it´s a variant of a psychopath, kind of diet-nutcase. Or maybe the focus currently is on these narcissists to draw attention from psychopaths, especially since it has become increasingly obvious that certain politicians are nutty as christmas cakes.

".. sorry son.. this polluted and diseased lifestyle is going to hurt me more than it does you... "

Narcissists and psychopaths should be considered as one and the same because they share many similar traits/ characteristics. eg. fascist, elitist, lack of empathy/ conscience ect..







legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386
Actually, from the humidity, wind, and temperature record presented, it certainly does look like "front passage."  By the way, a more accurate number would be to go from (say) 12 noon one day, to 12 noon the next.  Or max min for the 2 days.  As presented there is likely 5C error in the range due to differing times.

By the way, you certainly can use statistical variance to determine significant variation from climatic norms.  All the records are available to do this, at least in the USA I know.  You can just use the last 30 years, that should be fine.

You know, even without all the scientific stuff, weather became rather crazy gotta admit that. Never had a winter like that truly xD

So don't know if it's mankind fault or not, but there is still something coming. And I don't think burning our fuel is helping reducing it!

Btw, you didn't answer on the heat produces by us compared to the sun, I'm still sure it's not that low you know?

I totally agree with you: humans are disturbing this planet's stability but... as George Carlin said once Nature will take its chance to regulate itself again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjfiIow-eW0


The trouble was never to destroy Nature, I'm pretty sure Nature will be fine with what we're doing.
But Nature "regulation" might not take mankind survival into account  Grin

Of course! We have no power against something which is totally unknown to us. These guys can think they own the weather they can do some mess for a while on Earth but Earth/Nature eventually will clean itself. To me it will all end up in a big sneeze  Grin and we'll be gone

atchaaa! Grin

Bless you!
Not this time, not now. Let me become filthy rich and then, only then, you may be able to sneeze.
 Grin
And what if that "something coming" is an ice age?

We are about overdue for one, you know.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 1422
Actually, from the humidity, wind, and temperature record presented, it certainly does look like "front passage."  By the way, a more accurate number would be to go from (say) 12 noon one day, to 12 noon the next.  Or max min for the 2 days.  As presented there is likely 5C error in the range due to differing times.

By the way, you certainly can use statistical variance to determine significant variation from climatic norms.  All the records are available to do this, at least in the USA I know.  You can just use the last 30 years, that should be fine.

You know, even without all the scientific stuff, weather became rather crazy gotta admit that. Never had a winter like that truly xD

So don't know if it's mankind fault or not, but there is still something coming. And I don't think burning our fuel is helping reducing it!

Btw, you didn't answer on the heat produces by us compared to the sun, I'm still sure it's not that low you know?

I totally agree with you: humans are disturbing this planet's stability but... as George Carlin said once Nature will take its chance to regulate itself again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjfiIow-eW0


The trouble was never to destroy Nature, I'm pretty sure Nature will be fine with what we're doing.
But Nature "regulation" might not take mankind survival into account  Grin

Of course! We have no power against something which is totally unknown to us. These guys can think they own the weather they can do some mess for a while on Earth but Earth/Nature eventually will clean itself. To me it will all end up in a big sneeze  Grin and we'll be gone

atchaaa! Grin

Bless you!
Not this time, not now. Let me become filthy rich and then, only then, you may be able to sneeze.
 Grin
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386

Joule count of human fuel was not the question I was talking about, it was merely a philosophical question I'm not claiming anything.

What I am asking is: do you really believe that humans have no global impact on environment?

It's an easy Yes or No question man  Smiley
  Sure, I will answer your rigged question.

The answer is of course humans have an impact on the earth, and the subset of the earth known as the environment.  We have an effect on the entire universe at least for a hundred light year radius.  Just think, we've polluted that sphere with traces of our radio waves.

Your question is rigged by way of the Zero.  If we had 1.7 10^-15C effect on temperature, then the answer would be YES.  Therefore, for a universe with one cockroach, that cockroach would have an effect on the universe, measurable out to a light cone whose distance is proportional to it's age.   

What you really want to address, I would think, is something like "a significant impact" or "a statistically significant impact."

These are really the practical questions. 

It was not meant to be rigged, not everything is a hidden attack  Wink

Of course the idea was "significant"! But you're misled in my attempt. What I wanted to show is not that human have a significant impact.

Only two solution:
-we have a significant impact. Then it's important to control this impact and to be aware of it. Thus your position is a bit weird as you promote the inaction or at least the non coordinated action.
-We don't have a significant impact, then why not letting us trying to control it? It won't hurt anyone to try to be ecolo friendly even is it might be a bit useless no?

It's a bit like the Pascal bet, but with much less flaws  Cheesy
Actually I wasn't implying mal intent in saying the question was rigged, just noting the "zero" effect.

Yes, actually, if you put politicians in charge of "trying to control it" they certainly can have an effect that is the reverse of their stated goals.  For example, shutting down activities that require power in countries that have sophisticated coal plant scrubbers -- sends those activities to third world countries or China where they couldn't care less about clean outputs.

Hence, the government takes your money for a supposed goal, shuts down industries by harsh penalties, industries move elsewhere where there are no rules, net effect is the opposite.

(Side note:  Let's not derail this into "Oh, China is going to clean up," bllah blah blah)

Just take it for what it is, as stated.
full member
Activity: 756
Merit: 100

Joule count of human fuel was not the question I was talking about, it was merely a philosophical question I'm not claiming anything.

What I am asking is: do you really believe that humans have no global impact on environment?

It's an easy Yes or No question man  Smiley
  Sure, I will answer your rigged question.

The answer is of course humans have an impact on the earth, and the subset of the earth known as the environment.  We have an effect on the entire universe at least for a hundred light year radius.  Just think, we've polluted that sphere with traces of our radio waves.

Your question is rigged by way of the Zero.  If we had 1.7 10^-15C effect on temperature, then the answer would be YES.  Therefore, for a universe with one cockroach, that cockroach would have an effect on the universe, measurable out to a light cone whose distance is proportional to it's age.   

What you really want to address, I would think, is something like "a significant impact" or "a statistically significant impact."

These are really the practical questions. 

It was not meant to be rigged, not everything is a hidden attack  Wink

Of course the idea was "significant"! But you're misled in my attempt. What I wanted to show is not that human have a significant impact.

Only two solution:
-we have a significant impact. Then it's important to control this impact and to be aware of it. Thus your position is a bit weird as you promote the inaction or at least the non coordinated action.
-We don't have a significant impact, then why not letting us trying to control it? It won't hurt anyone to try to be ecolo friendly even is it might be a bit useless no?

It's a bit like the Pascal bet, but with much less flaws  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1386

You ask question but don't answer the questions you're asked. What is your point then? Humans can't really have an impact on environment? That's what you're trying to say? It's all too big for us and we should let thing go on their own?  Wink
RE whether joule count of human fuel use affects climate, even rabid Warmers don't claim this.  Check the IPCC reports for example.

Humans obviously have regional impacts on environment.

Feeling good by way of giving taxes to your government has nothing to do with the Earth's temperature series.  Nothing.  This has been calculated time after time.

If you deny that, then who is the denier?

Joule count of human fuel was not the question I was talking about, it was merely a philosophical question I'm not claiming anything.

What I am asking is: do you really believe that humans have no global impact on environment?

It's an easy Yes or No question man  Smiley
  Sure, I will answer your rigged question.

The answer is of course humans have an impact on the earth, and the subset of the earth known as the environment.  We have an effect on the entire universe at least for a hundred light year radius.  Just think, we've polluted that sphere with traces of our radio waves.

Your question is rigged by way of the Zero.  If we had 1.7 10^-15C effect on temperature, then the answer would be YES.  Therefore, for a universe with one cockroach, that cockroach would have an effect on the universe, measurable out to a light cone whose distance is proportional to it's age.   

What you really want to address, I would think, is something like "a significant impact" or "a statistically significant impact."

These are really the practical questions. 
full member
Activity: 756
Merit: 100

You ask question but don't answer the questions you're asked. What is your point then? Humans can't really have an impact on environment? That's what you're trying to say? It's all too big for us and we should let thing go on their own?  Wink
RE whether joule count of human fuel use affects climate, even rabid Warmers don't claim this.  Check the IPCC reports for example.

Humans obviously have regional impacts on environment.

Feeling good by way of giving taxes to your government has nothing to do with the Earth's temperature series.  Nothing.  This has been calculated time after time.

If you deny that, then who is the denier?

Joule count of human fuel was not the question I was talking about, it was merely a philosophical question I'm not claiming anything.

What I am asking is: do you really believe that humans have no global impact on environment?

It's an easy Yes or No question man  Smiley
legendary
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Governments can reduce the amount of carbon that is put into the air by making it a cost to business yes.
This is just one of several possible measures, what in your opinion would help?

That is NOT the question I asked.  However, neither is it true.  We know that when England drives one of their last remaining steel plants out of business through onerous taxation (EG saving the planet through legislating money to government for carbon emissions, that more carbon emissions simply occur in China as the industry segment moves there.

So do you really believe that a strategy, that does not pass college Economics 101 level logic, is a "good?"

You ask question but don't answer the questions you're asked. What is your point then? Humans can't really have an impact on environment? That's what you're trying to say? It's all too big for us and we should let thing go on their own?  Wink
RE whether joule count of human fuel use affects climate, even rabid Warmers don't claim this.  Check the IPCC reports for example.

Humans obviously have regional impacts on environment.

Feeling good by way of giving taxes to your government has nothing to do with the Earth's temperature series.  Nothing.  This has been calculated time after time.

If you deny that, then who is the denier?
full member
Activity: 756
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Actually, from the humidity, wind, and temperature record presented, it certainly does look like "front passage."  By the way, a more accurate number would be to go from (say) 12 noon one day, to 12 noon the next.  Or max min for the 2 days.  As presented there is likely 5C error in the range due to differing times.

By the way, you certainly can use statistical variance to determine significant variation from climatic norms.  All the records are available to do this, at least in the USA I know.  You can just use the last 30 years, that should be fine.

You know, even without all the scientific stuff, weather became rather crazy gotta admit that. Never had a winter like that truly xD

So don't know if it's mankind fault or not, but there is still something coming. And I don't think burning our fuel is helping reducing it!

Btw, you didn't answer on the heat produces by us compared to the sun, I'm still sure it's not that low you know?

I totally agree with you: humans are disturbing this planet's stability but... as George Carlin said once Nature will take its chance to regulate itself again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjfiIow-eW0


The trouble was never to destroy Nature, I'm pretty sure Nature will be fine with what we're doing.
But Nature "regulation" might not take mankind survival into account  Grin

Of course! We have no power against something which is totally unknown to us. These guys can think they own the weather they can do some mess for a while on Earth but Earth/Nature eventually will clean itself. To me it will all end up in a big sneeze  Grin and we'll be gone

atchaaa! Grin

DUDE!!!!

Don't freak me out like this  Grin
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