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Topic: Redsn0w, negative/neutral/or no trust due to Escrow negligence? - page 3. (Read 2727 times)

copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
...
You have funds for two different escrow projects in a single address? Are both parties you are holding money for aware of this? Are the participants in your signature campaign aware of this? If there are no funds in the escrow address to cover signature payments (the only money left is for the FINDCoin project) then participants would keep their signature up under the impression you have enough money to pay when you really do not

Yes the know everything , and as you didn't  do.. they have reasoned . No, obviously the FIND  bounty address  is :

FmEqKohExKEgj7oFEKG7f9rh2AnSfSKF37  
For the question about the signature campaign , the 0.46 btc cover one week & more . Obviously if the funds don't cover the week I will pay from my own btc.

You are going to pay from your own money if they don't give you enough? I would think it would be more wise to warn them that you might not have enough money to cover all the payments and how much you have. I somewhat think that statement was made because you thought that is what I wanted to hear

Quote
~ @Quickseller , Can I ask you here in public one thing ?
yes
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1042
#Free market
...
You have funds for two different escrow projects in a single address? Are both parties you are holding money for aware of this? Are the participants in your signature campaign aware of this? If there are no funds in the escrow address to cover signature payments (the only money left is for the FINDCoin project) then participants would keep their signature up under the impression you have enough money to pay when you really do not

Yes the know everything , and as you didn't  do.. they have reasoned . No, obviously the FIND  bounty address  is :

FmEqKohExKEgj7oFEKG7f9rh2AnSfSKF37   

For the question about the signature campaign , the 0.46 btc cover one week & more . Obviously if the funds don't cover the week I will pay from my own btc.


Please ,  be wise. Thanks again , for the reply.

~ @Quickseller , Can I ask you here in public one thing ?
copper member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1007
hee-ho.
I think it is fair that the trust rating should be removed once the escrow service in my deal is completed and sealed.
Does anyone else agree with this?

there, the core of this problem has spoken.

I do agree that it should. I don't see any problem as long as redsn0w doesn't open up another escrow service in the near future
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1042
#Free market
@Quickseller as I told you I'm not friend of michaeladair Roll Eyes. So at the end Could you change the feedback to neutral ? I think you don't trust me , but I'm still receiving pm to make as escrow and obviously my reply was all the time:

PS: I am doing this as a friend of Redsn0w and because I don't believe he is at the wrong in this matter.

It does seem like a conflict of interest if he's your friend and it's arguable as to whether redsnow is deserved of this trust but he did do something wrong regardless and I think he lucked out greatly on the situation. I think it was only a matter of time before something like this happened and could've been much worse and we never got to find out what red ultimately would have done had the account been lost. Redsnow stated a couple of times that he he himself didn't know what he would do if BadBear hadn't've of stepped in and couldn't answer whether he would've paid back the money which is a bit disturbing since he is meant to be guaranteeing it. That being said, he did close his escrow of his own accord which showed maturity but it also seems that he may start his escrow again at some point in the future which may not be a good idea for reasons already stated and in that case the feedback may be a good warning for people to use caution. The trust currently doesn't leave him marked as untrustworthy either but an orange warning which may by apt for the reason just stated.

I have not start nothing , I'm continue to manage  the sig. campaign as before and I've asked them if they want me as "manager" and they said : yes.
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
I think it is fair that the trust rating should be removed once the escrow service in my deal is completed and sealed.
Does anyone else agree with this?
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
I removed my negative because redsn0w said he would no longer act as escrow, so I didn't see it as necessary. I have seen reports/posts that this is not the case, but haven't had time to look into it.
He is still holding funds for a signature campaign , just paid out to participants today and there is no mention of him returning funds to the owner of the site nor that he is going to resign. Per the OP of the campaign he is holding funds in 1GkgLFg9YVyvLzKbsipzJJjy5r33mpv4ki and per the blockchain there is ~.46 BTC in the address.

Let the ones that are being hurt by the person to be giving out negative trust. Not an outsider.
I know that sounds a little Hypocritical, but my point still stands.

That is not how the trust system works. The other parties involved may not be high profile enough of users for what they claim to matter. Look at Vod's untrusted feedback. How many times has he scammed according to his untrusted feedback - probably 20......how many times has he actually scammed - probably zero.

I realized what I did was threatening, but when I asked Redsn0w about the situation he said you ignored his messages and didn't reply. So I took the matters into my hands because I thought you'd listen to an outside source. Sorry if you felt insecure about the threat, I'm sorry....
I didn't feel insecure about your threat. I knew that any feedback left under that basis would not be taken seriously. In my eyes, anyone who leaves negative trust for "trust abuse" (which is essentially what you were claiming) should not have any of their trust reports relied upon

He is still holding funds for a signature campaign , just paid out to participants today and there is no mention of him returning funds to the owner of the site nor that he is going to resign. Per the OP of the campaign he is holding funds in 1GkgLFg9YVyvLzKbsipzJJjy5r33mpv4ki and per the blockchain there is ~.46 BTC in the address.

Read the post above  yours ...

Yes and also for the FINDCoin project , but before my mistake not after.The transparency is the first thing , I didn't make nothing wrong it was only the  mistake (generated by me) that "ruined" me.
You have funds for two different escrow projects in a single address? Are both parties you are holding money for aware of this? Are the participants in your signature campaign aware of this? If there are no funds in the escrow address to cover signature payments (the only money left is for the FINDCoin project) then participants would keep their signature up under the impression you have enough money to pay when you really do not
global moderator
Activity: 3850
Merit: 2643
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PS: I am doing this as a friend of Redsn0w and because I don't believe he is at the wrong in this matter.

It does seem like a conflict of interest if he's your friend and it's arguable as to whether redsnow is deserved of this trust but he did do something wrong regardless and I think he lucked out greatly on the situation. I think it was only a matter of time before something like this happened and could've been much worse and we never got to find out what red ultimately would have done had the account been lost. Redsnow stated a couple of times that he he himself didn't know what he would do if BadBear hadn't've of stepped in and couldn't answer whether he would've paid back the money which is a bit disturbing since he is meant to be guaranteeing it. That being said, he did close his escrow of his own accord which showed maturity but it also seems that he may start his escrow again at some point in the future which may not be a good idea for reasons already stated and in that case the feedback may be a good warning for people to use caution. The trust currently doesn't leave him marked as untrustworthy either but an orange warning which may by apt for the reason just stated.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I'm a Web Developer: HTML, CSS, PHP, JS.
*What he said here*.
Uhm, #1 I removed the negative trust not because you called it Extortion, but because I made this topic and it wasn't necessary after.
You directly threatened me and saw that your threat did not work. If you can can find a different definition of extortion that does not match what you did then I would be wiling to concede on that point, but I don't think you can.
I realized what I did was threatening, but when I asked Redsn0w about the situation he said you ignored his messages and didn't reply. So I took the matters into my hands because I thought you'd listen to an outside source. Sorry if you felt insecure about the threat, I'm sorry....
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
*What he said here*.
Uhm, #1 I removed the negative trust not because you called it Extortion, but because I made this topic and it wasn't necessary after.
#2 The Coinichiwa thing was for a free btc campaign they were giving out a few days ago, both of us being on it was a coincidence.
You directly threatened me and saw that your threat did not work. If you can can find a different definition of extortion that does not match what you did then I would be wiling to concede on that point, but I don't think you can.

#2 - I concede the conichiwa message has nothing to do with anything however per the OP you are friends with him - even if this is not the case it is not relevant
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1042
#Free market
He is still holding funds for a signature campaign , just paid out to participants today and there is no mention of him returning funds to the owner of the site nor that he is going to resign. Per the OP of the campaign he is holding funds in 1GkgLFg9YVyvLzKbsipzJJjy5r33mpv4ki and per the blockchain there is ~.46 BTC in the address.

Read the post above  yours ...

Yes and also for the FINDCoin project , but before my mistake not after.The transparency is the first thing , I didn't make nothing wrong it was only the  mistake (generated by me) that "ruined" me.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I'm a Web Developer: HTML, CSS, PHP, JS.
I removed my negative because redsn0w said he would no longer act as escrow, so I didn't see it as necessary. I have seen reports/posts that this is not the case, but haven't had time to look into it.
He is still holding funds for a signature campaign , just paid out to participants today and there is no mention of him returning funds to the owner of the site nor that he is going to resign. Per the OP of the campaign he is holding funds in 1GkgLFg9YVyvLzKbsipzJJjy5r33mpv4ki and per the blockchain there is ~.46 BTC in the address.

Let the ones that are being hurt by the person to be giving out negative trust. Not an outsider.
I know that sounds a little Hypocritical, but my point still stands.
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298

Additionally, unrelated to the escrow transaction at issue, he did on at least one occasion did something that a much older, very trusted escrow provider thought was an attempt to steal his PGP private key as evidenced in the below post found on his escrow thread.

I've sent you a PM for ask something.  Can you please reply ? Thanks .

Another heads up... This user just asked me to use their 3rd party site to generate a PGP key. I can think of no other reason but a scam to want to provide someone with their PGP key. I'm seeing an uptick in scam attempts targeting myself and users of my escrow services. Please be careful and always check trust history before dealing with anyone.

Steal a PGP key , are you serious ? In that days I had some invitations to the keybase.io site and I wanted to share them with the users. I've seen that he didn't signed a pgp message in his escrow thread and I wanted to send him an invite
Those are his words not mine

I removed my negative because redsn0w said he would no longer act as escrow, so I didn't see it as necessary. I have seen reports/posts that this is not the case, but haven't had time to look into it.
He is still holding funds for a signature campaign , just paid out to participants today and there is no mention of him returning funds to the owner of the site nor that he is going to resign. Per the OP of the campaign he is holding funds in 1GkgLFg9YVyvLzKbsipzJJjy5r33mpv4ki and per the blockchain there is ~.46 BTC in the address.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1042
#Free market
I removed my negative because redsn0w said he would no longer act as escrow, so I didn't see it as necessary. I have seen reports/posts that this is not the case, but haven't had time to look into it.

*I've asked the  admin of actionCrypto.com , if he still want me to manage his signature campaign and he replied :


Hello redsn0w
As you stopped your escrow service will you continue for this site?

Thanks

Yes I will continue to manage this signature campaign , if the admin of the site want (I think it is not a problem).

Yes, please continue doing this campaign.

Have you fixed your issues?


I think that I've reacted  properly , I didn't go away from the forum I tried to resolve the issues generated due my mistake ( email not changed) and at the end  with the help of community no one of the parts has been damaged.

Now he left me negative feedback, but it was not necessary.   
You are allowed to act as escrow and have other commitments outside of the forum. Your presence was not the issue, the issue was that you were not there to promise that you would make good on the situation.

The problem is that the negative feedback is not necessary (at my point of view) I'm still managing the *actionCrypto signature campaign because he want it , and hold the funds of the altcoin  FINDCOIN ( but that before my mystake not after).

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I'm a Web Developer: HTML, CSS, PHP, JS.
*What he said here*.
Uhm, #1 I removed the negative trust not because you called it Extortion, but because I made this topic and it wasn't necessary after.
#2 The Coinichiwa thing was for a free btc campaign they were giving out a few days ago, both of us being on it was a coincidence.
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
It's not what happens to you that matters, it's how you react to it.

You can get a good example of how NOT to react by looking at the recent issue with takagari.  He made it so much worse for himself.

Give it some time, and contact quickseller in the future.  Let all parties cool down.  Don't keep harassing him if he is not budging. 
I actually did contact him, he sent one word messages that were bleak and ignorant. That's why I brought it here...
My responses to you were constant with how you would expect someone to react when being extorted. Your first message to me implied that something bad would happen if I did not remove my trust.
Please remove the negative trust that you placed on RedSn0w or at least make it neutral. He is to be trusted but just not for escrow, so put it as neutral or we will have problems.
(sic)excuise me?
My second response was me informing you that you were very clearly trying to extort/blackmail me.
The negative trust you gave to Redsn0w is unecessary as he did nothing to make him untrustworthy. Please remove it or at least make it neutral trust or I'll be forced to give you negative trust.
That it extortion
Per google
Quote
extortion (n) - the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
You were threatening me with negative trust if I did not remove the trust rating on Redsn0w, someone who you admit is your friend (showing a clear conflict of interest)
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1042
#Free market
Since I am being extorted by michaeladair to remove my negative trust, or to change it to neutral, I will post here about my trust rating that I gave him. I am not 100% sure what his connection is to Redsn0w, however his profile says he is 18 years old and you have a low maturity level so maybe you know each other from high school or something. You both appear to support coinichiwa and I was informed that you both are active in the NXT forums.

Thanks for your opinion , I don't know  michaeladair. He sent me a PM for first to try help me.


For the record he did give me negative trust, however he since removed it when I informed him that what he is/was doing is extortion.

I have really never trusted Redsn0w, as he seems to be too eager to be holding other's money for them. I have seen many signature campaigns pop up where he immediately would offer his services via PM (I know he offered it because you make a post saying that he sent a PM - which is unnecessary BTW, especially when you are wearing a paid signature). He also appear to be building up trust as I have seen you trade with others on default trust list (and have few trades - with the exception of your escrow services - with people who are not on default trust list) this makes me believe the only reason for the trade was for the trust rating. I do not see any received feedback from anyone that was not either using him as escrow or is on default trust list. It appears that he was always the one risking getting scammed when dealing with users on default trust list.

Even though he argues that everything turned out okay (and went smoothly), in the end it did not. He gave both lihuajkl and Moreia a false sense of security when providing his services. My interpretation of how moreia's account was hacked was that it was not sophisticated. The theory seems to be that the email address was public when he took control of the account and did not change it to private (nor did he change the actual email address) - these are what is claimed. It has been said that only one account has ever been hacked because of weak forum security, so I would doubt it was the forum's fault it got hacked. 

Once the account was out of his control, redsn0w appeared to be primarily concerned about his reputation (by saying things like I think someone is trying to ruin my reputation) and wanted to know who was behind the hack. He was not quick to accept responsibility, he repeatedly said that the mistake was unintentional when asked if he will cover the lender's losses. The only acceptable response to that question would be some variation of "yes". It was only when BadBear gave Redsn0w negative trust (that he later removed) that Redsn0w "closed" his escrow service (although it does not appear to be closed). He is still operating as escrow for ActionCrypto.com signature campaign and recently gave Dogedigital positive trust because he escrowed a transaction with today's time stamp (although he could have previously acted as escrow and just added it now).

Quote from: Redsn0w
I made as escrow , great user.


Additionally even though Redsn0w has several neutral trust ratings warning people not to use him as escrow he still received at least one escrow referral as recently as two days ago.

is this my fault ?



I think that I've reacted  properly , I didn't go away from the forum I tried to resolve the issues generated due my mistake ( email not changed) and at the end  with the help of community no one of the parts has been damaged.

Now he left me negative feedback, but it was not necessary.   
You are allowed to act as escrow and have other commitments outside of the forum. Your presence was not the issue, the issue was that you were not there to promise that you would make good on the situation.

Yes of course , deals that involved forum accounts are not secure ....




Additionally, unrelated to the escrow transaction at issue, he did on at least one occasion did something that a much older, very trusted escrow provider thought was an attempt to steal his PGP private key as evidenced in the below post found on his escrow thread.

I've sent you a PM for ask something.  Can you please reply ? Thanks .

Another heads up... This user just asked me to use their 3rd party site to generate a PGP key. I can think of no other reason but a scam to want to provide someone with their PGP key. I'm seeing an uptick in scam attempts targeting myself and users of my escrow services. Please be careful and always check trust history before dealing with anyone.

Steal a PGP key , are you serious ? In that days I had some invitations to the keybase.io site and I wanted to share them with the users. I've seen that he didn't signed a pgp message in his escrow thread and I wanted to send him an invite



However , now can you change it from  negative to neutral.  I think I don't deserve the neg. feedback, however thanks for your fast response (it seems that you didn't want to reply to my pm).
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1127
I removed my negative because redsn0w said he would no longer act as escrow, so I didn't see it as necessary. I have seen reports/posts that this is not the case, but haven't had time to look into it.
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
I think that I've reacted  properly , I didn't go away from the forum I tried to resolve the issues generated due my mistake ( email not changed) and at the end  with the help of community no one of the parts has been damaged.

Now he left me negative feedback, but it was not necessary.   
You are allowed to act as escrow and have other commitments outside of the forum. Your presence was not the issue, the issue was that you were not there to promise that you would make good on the situation.
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
Since I am being extorted by michaeladair to remove my negative trust, or to change it to neutral, I will post here about my trust rating that I gave him. I am not 100% sure what his connection is to Redsn0w per the OP they are friends

I made as escrow , great user.

Additionally even though Redsn0w has several neutral trust ratings warning people not to use him as escrow he still received at least one escrow referral as recently as two days ago.

Additionally, unrelated to the escrow transaction at issue, he did on at least one occasion did something that a much older, very trusted escrow provider thought was an attempt to steal his PGP private key as evidenced in the below post found on his escrow thread.

I've sent you a PM for ask something.  Can you please reply ? Thanks .

Another heads up... This user just asked me to use their 3rd party site to generate a PGP key. I can think of no other reason but a scam to want to provide someone with their PGP key. I'm seeing an uptick in scam attempts targeting myself and users of my escrow services. Please be careful and always check trust history before dealing with anyone.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I'm a Web Developer: HTML, CSS, PHP, JS.
It's not what happens to you that matters, it's how you react to it.

You can get a good example of how NOT to react by looking at the recent issue with takagari.  He made it so much worse for himself.

Give it some time, and contact quickseller in the future.  Let all parties cool down.  Don't keep harassing him if he is not budging. 
I actually did contact him, he sent one word messages that were bleak and ignorant. That's why I brought it here...
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