Topic: [Request] 1 Merit to become junior member and access to bounties sub (Read 2555 times)

Hilariousandco did a great job also pushing this suggestion forward. Thanks for him and for theymos too.
Locking the topic since the mission is accomplished 

I think your idea is great. It is favorable to all, your suggestion is a good idea such that if the meta update is like this, many jr.member that was demoted ti newbie would understand much.

Well said, did any noticed today that the amount shitpost on the altcoin discussion reduced by far today? this new system of having 1 merit to be Jr member is really a wonderful idea and i am in support of it.

I don't have anything to add in the suggestions above, consequently all are reasonable to not be implemented. I know Theymos has been reviewing this so let give him more time to this.


Of course, these red tag managers doesn't bother if their participants are spamming or not, as long as they earning from running a bounty then it will be all fine. Is there anything we can expect from these managers? Obviously, nothing.

---

Undeniably, spam posts are beyond our control and if these things will implemented we can see this forum in its fresh and informative look.

No idea. Theymos didn't respond when I asked him both publicly and privately. All we can do is hope that he explains his reasoning at some point. My best guess is he doesn't think it will help much or is too restrictive or something, but I would disagree on all fronts. Hopefully he just thinks it needs some tweaking to be effective. Cyrus said this about the matter though:


Which my response to that was:


I didn't get a response back. If what he said was true then it would happen at all ranks begging for merit to move up which barely ever happens. Besides, I would rather deal with minimal amount of begging and merit abuse than not do anything about the thousands of bots and spammers that are getting paid to post nonsense or copy and paste which isn't magically going to sort itself out so we need to do something and making sure these bots and spammers can't get paid for shitposting and copy and pasting as Juniors is a big step in the right direction IMO.

Same feeling here. After looking a post from Theymos on how do he thinks about the suggestion, i am making a confused face. Why does he put 1 merit requirement in the label "Ok and might needed some fix/changes" and then disappear again. We cant win this war because we are just people facing the bots and other people, plus the number of people who care about this spam matters is minority in the forum.

hillariousetc, do you have any guess of the reason why Theymos said that to the suggestion ?

You, I and mostly everyone else seems to agree that this would be a good idea. Sadly theymos doesn't and he's the guy in charge that needs convincing to make these changes. I really hope he gives his reasons as to why he doesn't think it's a good idea because it's essential in my opinion and we're at a point now where you can make good money just by botting hundreds of Junior accounts. This can't be acceptable and needs to change because we can't win a war against bots especially when people are getting paid for them.  

ok, you do make a solid point that chasing bad posts is much more work than working with managers.
But what about the bounty platforms which are running signature campaigns outside bitcointalk?

Still I think that the fastest way to decrease the spam is to enable merit reqirements for Jr.Members and disable signatures for those Jr. who has no merit.

i like the option of signature but the spam in alt-coin and other sections is just so overwhelming so I do like this idea of 1 merit before having the option to use signature
At the start i just could not understand why there is many shitposts, then i learned about bounties.

We are not 'pushing' anyone to do anything. Besides, if this is the case then why would you not do this anyway to buy your way through Member-Hero ranks or just even buy an account? There isn't any logic to what you're saying and you're completely biased in that you're worried this is going to push your further behind in trying to reach a decent rank to earn more. I don't even care if these idiots did try buy merit whether successfully or not. That is still a huge hoop to jump through and it requires time, initiative and money. They're not going to be able to afford to buy x amount of merit for their 3/6/12/200/2000 alt accounts anyway and that's why there needs to be a merit requirement to become a Junior because anyone can create an unlimited amount of accounts here for free. It doesn't matter if they never make it past Junior either because when you've got dozens or hundreds or even thousands of accounts copy and pasting other's responses and getting paid for it by ICOs as a Junior you don't need a higher rank and it's big business for doing nothing. Pure passive income that destroys the forum in the process. This needs to change and removing signatures or requiring merit is one of the only ways we'll stop this abuse.

Besides, you already got three merit so why are you complaining? Is it that maybe you're going to struggle to get the same on all your other accounts? Did you buy the merit or did you earn it legitimately? Either your argument/logic is wrong or you did actually just buy it and that's what you're annoyed about. You would already be a Junior under this proposal so I don't understand why you're against it unless there's something else going on here. Unsurprising you've received two merit from one user and sent him one back. I'm sure that's a simple merit trade.


How is requiring at least one merit strict? This forum is such a shitshow because it's so lax in policing users or enforcing rules. It's the opposite of strict. Users and even campaign managers can largely do whatever they want here and as such you get users farming their accounts in their hundreds just by writing a generic crap sentence that nobody cares to read and ICOs who will happily pay them for it.


How do you do that exactly? We're not here to teach children what to do and most won't be able to do it to a competent level anyway. Most people who come here these days are silly, naive kids who can't speak much English and don't know anything about bitcoin and have only come here to earn. This would be like trying to teach physics in Mandarin to English teenagers who couldn't care less about physics or Mandarin. No chance.


Oh great, let the moderators handle everything. Signature spam isn't the job of the staff here, but users do get banned, but tell me what is the point in banning one or a dozen alt accounts when the very same user has hundreds of even thousands more in their stockpile that they carry on doing the same with that we don't know about? It's utterly pointless and you need to tackle the issue at the source. It's the campaign managers job to police campaigns and they aren't doing their job at all and so they need to be forced to do it and one of those ways is to force them not to be able to accept Junior Members. How do we do that? Remove Juniors signatures or at the very least require a merit to become one. If you can't get a merit whether you earn it or buy it then you shouldn't be able to earn on that account. This is a very simple solution to a complex problem.

If this thing could lessen the spammer why not?  As a newbie,  I understand what your point is and I knew also that their so many people against with it even it is for the enhancement of our community.

1 merit is not that bad, if you can then we can do it also right?   

Well, right now they are cheating too, like, using bot in a campaign or using multiple accounts on a campaign or bounty, so i believe there will be less cheating like i have mentioned if they can not go to junior member easily. Merit selling? how do you know that? And you are accusing high ranked member far selling merit? I guess if you can say that then you have enough evidence so please make a thread and report about that. I would like to see the thread and will support you if you have the evidence.

Advocate them? You think how much thread and posts already made for the purpose of teaching people to get merit? Even a member here make a thread to guide people to use a good english, and some of them even made a contest/challenge that can increase the knowledge of members here and the reward for the challenge is merits.

There is a moderator for spamming, but have you ever done some report? Try to report some spam first and then you will know that the spam is way bigger than the human can even handle, that is why we need to change it from the system.

You are pushing them to cheat if you do that. We as a jr. member are having hard time how we are going to level up our reputations here through merit system. If that rule you want will be implemented, I won't wonder if most of the members here will cheat through buying merits, high rank will abuse too by selling too expensive merits.
Sometimes being so strict and dominant is not good. Instead of that why don't you advocate them how to write a new topic that can makes other give them a merit. I believe there is also a moderator for spamming so my opinion is when caught by spamming ban them permanently so others won't follow them.

@mazdafunsun
I think the same way like hilariousetc. Sources of the problem need to be controlled, and bad managers are one of them in my opinion. It does not need a lot of work and i guess that is the job risks of the managers, they must spend their time to check the posts of their participants, and maybe reporting the posts if they find the quality is too low. If the managers only grading work from post count which stated in profile page, then i can be a manager too, heck even a primary school kid can do this job too.

Making rules or standard to be a managers can be applied if there is an authority who manages the managers. Making a list like SMAS or DarkList is a great thing to do too which can help to control the problem from managers side.

It's not as much work as running around after them trying to clean up the spammers and bots they are paying to crap all over the forum. The problem needs to be tackled at the source. If you're paying kids to graffiti on walls all over a city then it's pointless just wasting time and energy running around on wild goose chases arresting the kids day after day as it will solve nothing. There are always hundreds of kids you can keep paying and they are willing to do your dirty work. Spend time catching the bad guys behind it all in the first place. Punishing them wouldn't be that difficult either. If they come here and do nothing about spam and pay bots to copy and paste then their threads are trashed, accounts banned and signatures blacklisted. If they can no longer advertise here then they're screwed. Once they start to realise that doing nothing is unacceptable the culture around here will change very fast and campaigns will do what they're supposed to.


This is a given. I hope theymos elaborates on why he put it in the No. Or not yet. Or the idea would need to be significantly modified camp. It's a quick and simple fix for numerous things.

As I know in the past, rank of member are based on the person's activity on Bitcointalk, merit system start from January . I see the problem you mention a little unfair for newbie. when not easy to get merit.

It requires tremendous work from mods to force bounty manager to do or not to do something .
Also i dont think that scenario of bounty manager giving out merit to spammers is realistic, they dont want to get their reputation demaged.

I think that the solution would be to disable Jr. Member signature for everyone who has less than 1 merit, it would help tremendously.
And no, i dont think that merit abusers would easily bypass this rule because almost all of free merit was spent in the first months after merit system was introduced.

Well, the original function of a forum, including this one, is for people to gather and talk about particular things they have interest on and i guess even the founder of this forum itself did not expect for this forum to be able to provide the members the ability to make money from a scheme like bounty and signature. Now when its growing fast and making the forum have more spammer, it is hard already to control the situation. Forcing things to be happen maybe a good solution but i am afraid it will cost something to the forum itself.

Like hillariousetc said, 1 merit to be junior member solution would help a lot, and i believe this would help a lot too because it is a great idea, although i think it needs to be higher to be junior member. But any of this great idea would be good if it can be applied sooner, as I think this is the suitable solution for now, and it goes well with merit purposes itself.

Yeah, you're right. Therefore what I said before was 'forcing' them to do this, such as locking their thread if they did not apply the rules to the campaign, or even get them banned. I don't know whether this can be effective because as far as I know, there are any campaigns that are currently active and managed by managers who have red trust, but its still running!

While the suggestions are good, i must highlight the suggestion number 3. As i say, the suggestion is good but i think it will encourage more merit farming and abusing, no? Even the manager of the campaign can give the participants a merit if it means that the manager will run his/her job successfully without a quality control. What must be added to your suggestion is the managers need to make sure they are not hiring a spammer, but the works take a lot of time and not many managers want to do that and some doesnt even care because they think spamming/bad advertising is still an advertizing, it spreads.