Topic: Request: Disable merits in the Wall Observer thread - page 2. (Read 2204 times)

Up to yesterday's data dump, 150472 slightly over 12 Merits were sent within the WO-thread. That's almost 10% of the total.

Sorry for that. I've corrected it.

This is a simple and yet effective idea.
And I guess that for regulars in the WO, “WO merits” would be more valuable than “forum merits”, while the opposite would be for merit farmers, of course.
Of course it would mean a little work from Theymos to implement that.
I recall compiling statistics for forum merits gained in the WO only, there already were a few “WO-legendary” members…

Limiting to 1 sMerit is an option and removing merits completely is another. Ideally, there has to be some way of controlling spam at root level from the contributors perspective where they do not feel the urge to spam rather than spam being reported.

Merits it seems is something that is in massive demand as account farmers try to get their alt-accounts enrolled in the highest paying signature campaigns. They will find ways to spam, beg and concoct stories whilst trying to have posts merited. It really is up to those giving merits to be more responsible as their behaviour determines what action merit seekers take next.

I'd argue it shouldn't matter who made a post, although I also try to prevent giving Merit to users who "in general" don't deserve it. It's tricky sometimes.

You'll just get more posts from "merit farmers".

How about every post within WO being capped at a max of 1 per sMerit giver? 

But the post in question was written by LoyceV who doesn't post there for the sole reason of getting merits and (as far as I know) isn't an account farmer. He certainly doesn't need them to rank up and had no motivation outside of wanting to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, he's actually contributed a lot of positive things to the forum, unlike any of the accounts that are "problematic."


For starters, one that would be deleted as spam in any other thread. Another is if it is recognized as a transparent ploy to get merit. Here's a couple such threads for your reference:

Requires support from merit sources - blatant plea for merit
Our Vision: How to change the world in three simple steps by Bitcoin" - copy/paste of tweets presented as original thought

I didn't shy away from the OP issue. I commented on an example presented about a post that received merit in WO.

Now the point is this: what is a low-quality post?
You can have one criterion, I can have another, and another user another criterion.
I'm not saying I agree with a post with just a smile. But what can I do if someone thinks it deserves merit? I may not agree, but the person gives the credit to whoever he wants, because there are no rules of how to give merit.

It is true that this may be spamming the WO topic. But to make exceptions in that regard may be made elsewhere in the forum. Besides, it can deprive a user who posts something on that thread that is actually of value and and that it is worthy of merit.

What I could observe from looking at the last 10 pages of this topic is that much of the merit given was given for the purpose of provoking. In a way of saying: "the merits are mine, I give it to whoever I want"

Do I like to see that? No. But they too have the right to do so.
One thing is certain, if someone abuses the use of their smerit, because it is a source of merit, they will be penalised - as has already happened and has been mentioned.

In the meantime, I apologize if I am unable to explain my point of view, as English is not my specialty.

I just hope that tempers calm down and that you can resolve yourself in the best way.

Maybe that's all that was needed, some merit sources that are active there realizing that they should be a little bit more selective when it comes to meriting. It would imho be a much better solution than just disabling merit sending there alltogether.


If that happens, just bump this thread again.

I think you're on to something here: leave the Merit system the way it is now, but on top of that create a system to add "+1 WOmerit" to any post in WO. Like a like, and only existing in WO. It shouldn't add anything to someone's profile, just to the post in question. On second thought: within WO, there should be a "WOmerit: xxx" counter above the user's avatar. But it won't mean anything for ranking up, and won't exist anywhere else so there's no incentive for spammers to get them.

Simple, you just reply "+1 WOmerit". It's been a tradition in the thread for a few years now.


I don't really understand what you've been attempting to say here, at all... You keep framing the discussion in ways that are irrelevant to the original topic at hand.

I don't care how anybody spends their merits outside of the WO thread.

It's just blatantly obvious that the low moderation standard for that particular thread has created a spam problem, which is due to the regular meriting of low-quality, cut-and-paste posts.

Actually its gotten a lot better in there since this thread started to gain some traction. No doubt they will be back at it after attention shifts away from the issue.

Ahh just remember bitcointalk.org signature campaigns are worth huge amounts of coin to lots of people.

So shutting wo thread from merits may not really help the website.

I think keeping enough but not too much signature action is a big function of bitcointalk.

It made me giggle too.. but for whatever reason I did not end up sending an smerit to that particular post.. even though I have sent smerits to similar kinds of posts.. and whatever random thing that might be going on with me at the time too.. or maybe I ran out of smerits at the time.. so yeah a bit of randomness, perhaps?

.. I think describing why one of us might send several smerits to a seemingly low quality post (from a usually (overwhelmingly) high quality production robotic-like member) goes to the point that there is quite a bit of subjectivism in smerit sending, and surely there is no problem with theymos saying that he would prefer smerit sending from sources to aim towards the meriting of the higher of quality posts - but there is still no exact resolution towards getting away from a certain level of subjectivity and even any of us could have days in which our judgement might happen to be fogged and even perverted.. and surely if any of the merit source members are acting in those kinds of ways on a regular and ongoing basis, theymos may well choose to remove them as merit source members and/or to reduce the quantity of their source smerits.

We could also back theymos in a corner, if we might publicly proclaim that our purpose might happen to be to do the opposite of what he has stated to be concerns of his regarding the sending out of smerits.. and yeah sure threads like these might push the subject matter and even contribute towards theymos considering that some actions might be needed by him... but I am still having my doubts regarding the extent to which either OP or the paradoy OP have pointed out concerns to actually show that there is some kind of a problem in which there is questionable objective value to some posts that are getting merited by some merit source members.. just for shitz and giggles...

.....but even shitz and giggles does not rise to the level abuse, corruption and/or quid pro quo, which seems to be more in the baliwick of smerit distribution devolution that theymos might well feel that he would need to see in order to actually conclude that the problem is worthy of some kind of a solution attempt. and the dumbass kind of a solution of creating a change that ONLY affects the WO thread seems a wee bit nutso.. but hey. .anything can happen, even if a couple of nutsos creating threads to argue such nutso ideareas.. ..

....or maybe if we go by the recent ruling against the SEC, I am not even sure if merit source members would need to be arbitrary and capricious in their smerit sending in order to be enough to disqualify them from carrying out their smerit sending because there would likely need to be some level of showing bad faith rather than their randomness or not really having any kind of a reason for the merits they sent.. although , I am sure that theymos does prefer some kind of conscientiousness in the smerit sending.. rather than pure aribtrariness.. and the idea of capricious does have some kind of irresponsibility built into it.. and maybe in that regard, I recall that QuestionAuthority was removed as a merit source member after he had engaged in some seemingly random game-related merit distribution practices...and who knows what else was going on with QA (that was of theymos's then concern).. and maybe the QA example goes to the idea that some level of publicness might push theymos into feeling that maybe some kind of action from him might be preferable.

I never said that it should be disabled. Some merit sources could be more careful with the privilege bestowed upon them by the almighty forum dictator, but that's just my opinion.


Source smerit sending discretion has limits and those limits have been successfully tested in the past (i.e. merit sources have been stripped of their privileges for misuse). Generally speaking, if there is a scenario where shitposters get merited by a source so consistently that they can successfully farm merits, that to me sounds like a problem for the forum even if it's perfectly fine for WO.


There is no way to report posts for incorrect meriting (I mean one could report them but that would do fuck all other than a bunch of bad reports).


It's a problem. Not even in the top 10 BIG problems on this forum IMO.


I'll give you a solid maybe on that one.

This little example shows that merit worked correctly. Even if it doesn't seem like the sight of some readers.

The merit should be given when someone's post meets our ideas, stirs our emotions or a way to agree with what is said.
The merits should not be limited when indicating the work a user has had writing or developing a project for the community.
Merit is much more than that. We need to understand that.

It was pretty funny given the situation, if my sMerit supply wasn't so precious to me (I won't bore you with the meme.), I probably would have merit'd it.

With WO being one of the more active threads on the forum, it stands to reason that there would be a higher flow of sMerit in that thread.. maybe with more active sources viewing it?

In some ways, I think it should be easy to get merits for simple witty posts that entertain people, in other ways I think it should be somewhat difficult to make people put more time and effort into what they post to earn the merit.. but then I wouldn't want to discourage or devalue something like what LoyceVMobile posted.  

merit on the WO thread in my opinion is like the like button on social media, so if the merit is disabled from the WO thread, how can other members like each other's posts with the same WO members?

but what about the idea if the merits obtained on the WO thread cannot be shared use it in another thread, is there any possibility to make something like that?

That was a damn good post.
The kind of humour I like on theWO. A good giggle is worth my standard amount of merits.
If you point me toward your best post I might , or might not merit shower also those.

it gave me a chuckle for whatever reason - so one merit from me... thats my story and im sticking to it

and now i must resist going back and giving 49 more.

I made this post yesterday:
It received 4 Merit. I've made better posts that received 0 Merit. I think it's safe to say earning Merit in WO is even easier than in Meta.

Ok.  Aren't you undermining the argument that smerit sending/receiving should be disabled on the WO thread?

If you are tolerant regarding the idea of differences of opinions, then wouldn't you be tolerant of ideas about differences of opinions in regards to members who have smerits using their own individual discretion in order to decide which posts they want to send smerits, and if so, how many smerits they would like to send to such posts?

If you see a problem with abuse of discretion, then report those posts... or put together a package of posts and then report them all, and if theymos and/or his merit czar (if he happens to have a secret one) agree with your report, then maybe he will remove that member as a source or reduce his/her source amount.

The problem is TOO BIG, right?




right???






rrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhttttttt?? ?? ?? ??


That's why dumb-ass, drastic, spiteful, elitist and perhaps other categories of thingies measures need to be taken in order that we no longer have nice things.. which is a nice little WO thread... that some members in this here forum seem to NOT appreciate.



I am starting to get the sense of what is being said here.  




The amount of smerits being sent on the WO thread is too damned high!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  







AmInotrite?