Request: Disable merits in the Wall Observer thread - page 7.

PowerGlove

hero member

Activity: 510

Merit: 4005

This is a tricky one. On the one hand, I like this request; it'll make it much harder for account farmers to rank up, and I'm all for that. On the other hand, restrictions on users' freedoms are from the dark side of the force, and I (mostly) get theymos' reluctance to control things too much.

My first thought is that completely disabling merit distribution in the WO thread is too heavy-handed. I think basing it on rank (e.g. you can't receive merit in the WO thread unless you're at least a Hero Member, or something) makes a nice compromise between dropping a spanner in the works of account farmers but still letting WO regulars have their fun.

My second thought is that this could actually be implemented as an SMF feature, in the same vein as self-moderated threads. Something like this:

That way, the community has another tool to self-govern with, and other merit "soft spots" (like contest threads) might be hardened up, too.

SamReomo

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 672

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: suchmoon on August 24, 2023, 10:46:55 AM

You're a living example of campaign managers not giving a shit about "quality" or "useful" or anything of the sort. The irony of you posting in the "AI spam" thread hasn't escaped me either.

I don't really have anything with you because I know that I'm doing good and trying to improve myself every other day. I don't think that it's fair to discourage someone in such a harsh way only because you don't like the way of someone. I'm satisfied with my posts and I'm constantly trying to improve myself. If your criticism is in a positive way then I'll do whatever I can to improve the quality of my posts even more, and if you're just criticizing me because of some personal issues which I don't think we have, then that's something that I can't really change.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4326

Merit: 8950

'The right to privacy matters'

its a time killer thread.

I post there a lot and in mining boards a lot.

Most people with a ton of merits don't care about whom they give their merits to.

I can tell you really trying to give merits to deserving people takes hours of effort.

First thing you need to do is read every post the person made in the last month.

Second thing you need to do is try and see if they copy or pasted.

Then you can give some merits.

When I first saw "Who is John Galt"

I was going to give him merits then I wondered if he was a cheap alt being feed by master accounts that have tons of merits.

I am still not sure if it is a stand alone non weasel account. So I hesitate to merit it a lot.

Altoguht once again he wrote a decent post back a few posts.

To me the biggest problem I have on the WO is anyone with under 400 merits I simply tend to not post as I fear them to be a false alt.

Igebotz

staff

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1610

The Naija & BSFL Sherrif 📛

Quote from: Frankolala on August 24, 2023, 09:42:46 AM

I don't support disabling merit on WO,because the regulars are the ones giving out these merits and they are some of them that are merit source who attached themselves to that thread only. I think that the regulars are enjoying or entertaining themselves with the post from those shit posters which is making them to merit their post.

The high rank users and merit source that is focused only on that thread attention should be drawn to this thread as suggested early by @Skeptical Chymist and @Poker Player so that they can minimize the way they give out merits.

You can't tell people how to use their earned smerits or source merits, and most users on WO thread don't pay attention to discussion or care about posts outside of the WO thread, so I doubt any of them would care. Nothing can be done about it as long as they are not trading it. Theymos says lose no sleep over it.

I've had WO on ignore for a long time cuz there's nothing there that interests me. Filled with alts anyways.

Who is John Galt?

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 288

I will abstain from voting. I found an ignore button for myself, and now, personally, dumb copies from Twitter don’t bother me anymore. And on other issues, both votes for and votes against seem reasonable to me, so any option will be useful and harmful in some ways.

But guys, voting? You say that the WO thread is filled with alts (which is quite likely), but you hope that they will not guess to come and vote from all their accounts in the way that seems most interesting to them? The number of votes against is not yet in the lead by a wide margin? I would consider only reasoned comments, not voting, where you can vote from any number of alts! Cheesy

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Cutting merits off completely might be too harsh although some merit sources in that thread could do better. It takes just a few seconds to stop and think "does this post contribute anything positive to this forum (or thread)" before hitting that merit button. Some of them clearly don't do that and this goes against the intent of the merit system IMO. Unfortunately evaluating this and giving them some guidance and/or restricting their merit allocation is not something I imagine theymos has time for, and if anyone else tries to "investigate" then it would likely result in bias accusations etc.

But if someone were to attempt it, I think the percentage of merits earned inside WO vs outside of WO, particularly for low-rank bounty-and-signature users from non-English boards would be a good starting point. If it looks like this... might be a problem:

Loading...

Edit: spellign.

Quote from: SamReomo on August 24, 2023, 10:13:58 AM

Disabling of merits on that thread will be an injustice to the senior and most well known members who have been active on that thread for a long time. Some of those members don't post on other threads at all, and if merits are disabled on that thread then their accounts may also not get new merits. That's actually not a problem because those members really don't need or care about merits that much because as far as I have noticed that none of them is in a signature campaign and they don't really care about signature campaigns at all.

The most members of the thread are true Bitcoin enthusiasts and they love to spend their time on that thread, and whenever they see a good post on that thread they can't stop themselves from sending merits to those posts. I think nothing is wrong in that kind of merit sending and the ones who are basically there for merit fishing won't get any better even if they receive 1000 merits which are required for legendary rank. I don't think that any manager would accept such merit fishers in their campaigns because most of the managers want high quality posters who could create useful posts for promotion of a campaign.

You're a living example of campaign managers not giving a shit about "quality" or "useful" or anything of the sort. The irony of you posting in the "AI spam" thread hasn't escaped me either.

_act_

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1337

Lightning network is good with small amount of BTC

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on August 24, 2023, 05:55:12 AM

I don't see it in your way and most of what you even narrated are very good reasons for it to be disabled if possible. Merit earning and sharing are not all about whether or not you are established or whether you can redistribute it better, the first requirement is for you to share value through quality posts.

I've read through WO many times and posted there about two times, but the truth is you will hardly see anyone sharing value there. The thread has degenerated from what @infofront created it for.

Imagine someone who did not share value earning 32 merits in a single post. This is alarming. Should it be disabled? I say Yes if it continues like this. But No if they can return to the reason why it was originally created, and it should be better moderated with strict rules.

I have visited WO very well and I can see how they are sharing and cycling merits, but some of the exciting posts can be sent merits. I think I like what The Sceptical Chymist, LoyceV and other and many other people said about this. You can read what they post about this.

Merit is not what that is 100% accurate, but it is keeping the forum from shit posting. There are some posts on local board that do not worth the quality of posts on general board but showered with unnecessary merits.

If theymos do not see how this is affecting posting on this forum, he will do nothing. I am very sure that he will do nothing about this. Everything is working good even if some people are smart enough to receive merits with little efforts.

SamReomo

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 672

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: nutildah on August 24, 2023, 01:15:51 AM

The simple solution to the problem is to disable the meriting of WO posts. Much like how signatures were disabled in that thread, it will discourage spammers from flooding the thread.

Disabling of merits on that thread will be an injustice to the senior and most well known members who have been active on that thread for a long time. Some of those members don't post on other threads at all, and if merits are disabled on that thread then their accounts may also not get new merits. That's actually not a problem because those members really don't need or care about merits that much because as far as I have noticed that none of them is in a signature campaign and they don't really care about signature campaigns at all.

The most members of the thread are true Bitcoin enthusiasts and they love to spend their time on that thread, and whenever they see a good post on that thread they can't stop themselves from sending merits to those posts. I think nothing is wrong in that kind of merit sending and the ones who are basically there for merit fishing won't get any better even if they receive 1000 merits which are required for legendary rank. I don't think that any manager would accept such merit fishers in their campaigns because most of the managers want high quality posters who could create useful posts for promotion of a campaign.

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

Quote from: nutildah on August 24, 2023, 01:15:51 AM

The simple solution to the problem is to disable the meriting of WO posts. Much like how signatures were disabled in that thread, it will discourage spammers from flooding the thread.

Solution is not that simple, they can just move to another board/thread and continue ''business'' as usual.
Sure, there is a chance Wall Observer thread could get cleaner, but I seriously doubt that this will happen even if merits gets disabled.

Frankolala

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 586

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

I don't support disabling merit on WO,because the regulars are the ones giving out these merits and they are some of them that are merit source who attached themselves to that thread only. I think that the regulars are enjoying or entertaining themselves with the post from those shit posters which is making them to merit their post.

The high rank users and merit source that is focused only on that thread attention should be drawn to this thread as suggested early by @Skeptical Chymist and @Poker Player so that they can minimize the way they give out merits.

Rikafip

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 5937

Quote from: Poker Player on August 24, 2023, 02:35:19 AM

My guess is that they don't give it much thought. Many of them have accumulated a lot of Bitcoin for a long time, notice that few of them participate in signature campaigns and 90% or more of what they write is in the WO thread, so I don't think they give it more importance than clicking for a like on Instagram or Facebook.

You are probably right, so maybe those who are annoyed with all those merit farming account should raise awaraness inside WO thread (if it hasn't been done already) so maybe people will stop meriting them.

Quote from: Erumo on August 24, 2023, 04:01:58 AM

Giving merit in WO should be equaled to giving merit for a bounty report Cheesy

Not all WO posts are equal (some are actually great), unlike bounty reports.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 24, 2023, 04:28:10 AM

And after that, if the behavior isn't stopped perhaps DT members can come up with a plan of action--or not.

I don't know what DT members could do to try stop that, without abusing trust system.

lovesmayfamilis

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 4265

✿♥‿♥✿

You can test disabling merit in the WO branch. I'm sure once merits are disabled, interest in posting in this thread will drop by half if not more. There are accounts that constantly publish posts there, after which they send merits to other accounts. I won't point fingers; however, local sections such as Pakistan and the Philippines are notable for frequent visits to this thread. I exclude the old-timers who just live there.

ibminer

legendary

Activity: 1789

Merit: 2535

Goonies never say die.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 24, 2023, 04:28:10 AM

I've visited that thread a few times and had sort of noticed that the merit distribution was like the booze at a billionaire's cocktail party, free-flowing and copious. All the shitposters who figured out where that party was are like filthy vagrant gatecrashers dressed up in tuxedos they don't actually own.

They probably do own the tuxedos. You can grab a tuxedo costume for ~.002BTC.. hat, bow tie & cane sold separately, but I'm sure the advertisers have provided enough funds for it.

... I'd wear it. Grin

(<- I'm joking btw)

Who aggravates you all more.. those throwing the booze/merit around to the shitposters, or those shitposters trying to get the booze/merit being thrown around?

I don't spend a huge amount of time at WO, but I do find various posts of interest, and enjoy the (sort of) laid-back atmosphere. Outside of the twitter re-posts, and the (illogical) failed meme attempts which sometimes get merit, I can't say I even fully understand why a short statement echo'ing what the market is doing on any given day, or throwing out any wild speculation, would get 5-10+ merit, even for "senior" members, but I try not to judge.. it is a speculation thread after all, and, for sources, I'm sure it feels much easier to drop this type of merit when a constant flow is coming in.

Some of it can be entertaining, and some of them seem completely useless, to me at least. But I'm not sure if merit should be the issue here, I'd lean more towards moderation of the useless posts until they get the hint those posts are not welcome.. in this case, would that be infofront?

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Isn't the problem with the people who Merit them? The WO-thread has been very lenient on sharing Merit for years, not only for new users, but also for "the regulars". They don't need Merit, and in my opinion many of the Merited posts don't deserve it. But, as far as I know, several of "the regular WO-users" are Merit sources too, which must mean "upper management" approves. And many of the Merited posts are actually worth it. So I don't think disabling Merit is a good solution, and voted No.

yhiaali3

legendary

Activity: 1848

Merit: 1982

Payment Gateway Allows Recurring Payments

Although I share your opinion on WO topic but I don't agree with you that merit should be disabled in WO topic. Disabling merit can reduce spam but it can also be a little unfair to other good members. Also, it restricts the personal freedom of merit senders members, and this is contrary to the principles of the forum.

I see that the responsibility lies primarily with the merit senders, they should give the merit only to the deserving and I believe that the top WO posters really have the ability to differentiate between good and bad.

EarnOnVictor

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 654

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: _act_ on August 24, 2023, 01:38:44 AM

You can see some posters that are on WO that are established even since long time ago but not really active on other threads than to post about just the price of bitcoin. There are also good posts on WO that are given merit. Merit system is not something that is totally accurate on bitcointalk, but it helps against spamming.

Should merits be disabled in the WO thread? No

I don't see it in your way and most of what you even narrated are very good reasons for it to be disabled if possible. Merit earning and sharing are not all about whether or not you are established or whether you can redistribute it better, the first requirement is for you to share value through quality posts.

I've read through WO many times and posted there about two times, but the truth is you will hardly see anyone sharing value there. The thread has degenerated from what @infofront created it for.

Imagine someone who did not share value earning 32 merits in a single post. This is alarming. Should it be disabled? I say Yes if it continues like this. But No if they can return to the reason why it was originally created, and it should be better moderated with strict rules.

digaran

copper member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 899

🖤😏

If merit senders are merit sources, you can request a review about their distribution methods, otherwise merit farmers will find another solution. Also you need to find where those merits come from originally.😉

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 2017

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 24, 2023, 04:28:10 AM

I think the names of the biggest offenders from the WO thread (the ones who are handing out merits to posts that don't deserve it) should be compiled into a list and then someone should PM them with a request to visit and comment in this thread. That way if they didn't realize this was a problem that's being noticed by the community, they'll have no excuse in the future.

And after that, if the behavior isn't stopped perhaps DT members can come up with a plan of action--or not. I don't actually know how bad the problem is in the WO thread.

I agree on the part that goes to good. Tell those who give merits too blithely to come to this thread to be aware of the problem because some of them may not even be. But I don't know what strength you think DTs can have over people who don't participate in signature campaigns, are loaded with Bitcoins, and practically their participation in this forum is limited to that thread.

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3556

Merit: 7011

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: Poker Player on August 24, 2023, 02:35:19 AM

As soon as you visit the thread you know that saying bullish statements about the price, especially if we are in bull market, or saying you have bought a certain amount of Bitcoin is quite likely to get you merit there.

I've visited that thread a few times and had sort of noticed that the merit distribution was like the booze at a billionaire's cocktail party, free-flowing and copious. All the shitposters who figured out where that party was are like filthy vagrant gatecrashers dressed up in tuxedos they don't actually own.

Quote from: nutildah on August 24, 2023, 01:15:51 AM

- It is a distraction that dilutes honest conversation between good faith participants.
- It is lazy, dishonest, and often wholly unnecessary.
- It lends to promotion of a culture of cheating.

While I agree wholeheartedly with all of those points, I'm of the opinion that there should be less "government" on bitcointalk and thus I don't think there should be restrictions set by fiat from Theymos. I think the names of the biggest offenders from the WO thread (the ones who are handing out merits to posts that don't deserve it) should be compiled into a list and then someone should PM them with a request to visit and comment in this thread. That way if they didn't realize this was a problem that's being noticed by the community, they'll have no excuse in the future.

And after that, if the behavior isn't stopped perhaps DT members can come up with a plan of action--or not. I don't actually know how bad the problem is in the WO thread.

Erumo

member

Activity: 564

Merit: 50

Quote from: nutildah on August 24, 2023, 01:15:51 AM

Merit farming in the WO thread has gotten way out of hand.

Giving merit in WO should be equaled to giving merit for a bounty report Cheesy

Topic: Request: Disable merits in the Wall Observer thread - page 7. (Read 2204 times)