Topic: Require a small amount of merit to become a Junior Member - page 2. (Read 1763 times)
I do not think it's necessary to require for merit just to ask how many posts need to have at least a few words and write down which threads are counted.
In case this is implemented, how much merits are we talking about ? Less than 5 seems quite less and then member rank will need an increase for merit as well.
It doesn't matter really, but it should be at least one. The amounts should be staggered and get progressively higher (and harder) to get as you move up ranks. Ten merit to become a Member isn't much at all, and Junior could be between 1-5, but one is better than nothing and is at least some encouragement in that all you need is one meritable post to move up a rank. Member is then ten times more difficult. My suggestion is more about just stopping the truly terrible posters and bots from being able to achieve this rank by doing nothing other than making 30 posts over two activity periods.
In case this is implemented, how much merits are we talking about ? Less than 5 seems quite less and then member rank will need an increase for merit as well.
I understand the logic and it makes sense. I was just trying to point out how much more difficult it all makes it for the regular people. Just wish there was a better solution to prevent people from spamming and selling such accounts.
So the one who gets merits is an irregular/divergent? That means the majority of this forum can't write meaningful posts, isn't it?
Come on Quade, don't be too pessimistic.
From what I see there are three types of possible posts.
1. Spam, forced. This is the majority on bitcointalk.
2. Normal. What you would see on your average website. Say on YouTube. Legit comment about the video they saw. MEANINGFUL to the subject/video.
3. All time great posts. John Carmack going in depth about computer programming. A subject he's an expert in.
What I'm saying that in the hopes of getting a merit one cannot be normal, but rather spend an expensive amount of mental energy for number three in hopes that maybe they'll get a merit. And something that the majority of people will not be able to do. Due to lack of knowledge on most of the topics, particularly if they're new. Or because they simply do not have the IQ. Or not being a native English speaker.
That was my point.
I understand that the spammers and bot are a bigger issue than a regular person getting a merit to be a Jr. member. But what I'm saying is that I'm a regular person, having regular conversations, posts, and so on. Even though I understand that the spammers and bot are a major issue, I'm just trying to bring light how this really messes up a regular person.
How does it mess people up? People should earn their ranks. If you can't contribute anything merit worthy then you should remain at a Newbie rank. Asking for one merit to become a Junior is not a ridiculous proposition. The other ranks are much higher.
The difficulty is such now that instead of developing through natural conversations, I have to go above and beyond and create really amazing posts. Most regular people are not going to have that ability. So you can see how it hurts the regular person the most.
Above and beyond?
. I'm really sorry that you now have to put a little effort into your posts and can't just rise through the ranks with generic one/two line posts. People are tired of having to read nonsense by lazy idiots who are only here to earn and do so by posting crap all over until they get the rank they want. If you can't get merit then you shouldn't move up ranks. People shouldn't be allowed to just come here and write "I like bitcoin because it helps me with my daily needs" 30 times and then become a Junior Member. Earn that title by posting something worthwhile, but if you don't then you should remain a Newbie.Like I know I can go back and improved what I just said if I spend a lot more mental effort and time going over and looking at how I can better express my point. But now instead of being natural and a regular person, I'm forcing myself, using more mental energy, for the hope of getting a merit.
The cost, energy that one has to use for hopefully getting a merit puts us at a disadvantage.
The cost, energy that one has to use for hopefully getting a merit puts us at a disadvantage.
Well maybe this is the problem here. Laziness or 'lack of energy' shouldn't be rewarded. If you lack energy to post on a message board then I wouldn't suggest finding something less tiring to do or just stick to collecting bounties until you've earned the right to move up ranks.
That means the majority of this forum can't write meaningful posts, isn't it?
Correct. Out of more than 2 million accounts, less than 1% has received 1 or more Merit points.The majority of users are either spambots or bounty hunters/account farmers with dozens of accounts.
Why are they not banned then ? Is it because the forum needs them for some reason or another ?
Bots are banned once spotted or reported, but their accounts still remain in the database, they just can't do anything with them. Alts are allowed by the forum as long as it's not to evade a ban or something else malicious.
That means the majority of this forum can't write meaningful posts, isn't it?
Correct. Out of more than 2 million accounts, less than 1% has received 1 or more Merit points.The majority of users are either spambots or bounty hunters/account farmers with dozens of accounts.
Why are they not banned then ? Is it because the forum needs them for some reason or another ?
That means the majority of this forum can't write meaningful posts, isn't it?
Correct. Out of more than 2 million accounts, less than 1% has received 1 or more Merit points.The majority of users are either spambots or bounty hunters/account farmers with dozens of accounts.
I understand the logic and it makes sense. I was just trying to point out how much more difficult it all makes it for the regular people. Just wish there was a better solution to prevent people from spamming and selling such accounts.
So the one who gets merits is an irregular/divergent? That means the majority of this forum can't write meaningful posts, isn't it?
Come on Quade, don't be too pessimistic.
I think the people from the post you posted should be penalized in different way. I have yet to get a merit, and as far as I can tell other legit JR. members also. It's not fair that we should be penalized because of obvious spammers.
If you are a normal poster, meaning that you spend some time outside the Altcoin board and join debates, it shouldn't be difficult to get one merit. In fact, that should be quite easy and in no time.
The problem we have in the forum is a situation like this one, for instance: https://www.seoclerk.com/Traffic/611690/Create-Bitcointalk-Account
https://i.imgur.com/09EVLJO.png
Low-life guys spamming the forum as a work.
You don't have to be a bot or an obvious spammer. There are many users who just write 30 one liners over the required time and then they become a Junior Member with no effort whatsoever. People are farming accounts in their hundreds if not thousands this way. Requiring one merit is not outrageous, but it certainly makes farming Junior accounts much more harder and doesn't really effect those others who are here to contribute something as they will likely get the merit pretty fast. I've just looked over your few pages of posts and whilst I wouldn't call you a spammer you haven't really contributed anything substantial either, but I doubt you'd have much issue in getting one merit if you put some more effort in. Requiring one merit to move up a rank really shouldn't be an issue, and if people can't even achieve one merit I would say the problem lies with them.
Precisely. It is not only about bots, but about spamming.
As you can see in the example I posted, the guy is offering to create Jr accounts for $50, and it is allowed to ask if you want an account with more activity.
I bet that the posting activity of any of these accounts is nothing but shit.
By implementing the 1 merit requirement for juniors, we will get rid of those, and his "business" will become somehow difficult to achieve.
But I truly believe it will be needed more than a single merit, maybe 5, for the merit market is actually happening, and it can be easy to buy one or to transfer one merit from an account to another.
I understand the logic and it makes sense. I was just trying to point out how much more difficult it all makes it for the regular people. Just wish there was a better solution to prevent people from spamming and selling such accounts.
I think the people from the post you posted should be penalized in different way. I have yet to get a merit, and as far as I can tell other legit JR. members also. It's not fair that we should be penalized because of obvious spammers.
You don't have to be a bot or an obvious spammer. There are many users who just write 30 one liners over the required time and then they become a Junior Member with no effort whatsoever. People are farming accounts in their hundreds if not thousands this way. Requiring one merit is not outrageous, but it certainly makes farming Junior accounts much more harder and doesn't really effect those others who are here to contribute something as they will likely get the merit pretty fast. I've just looked over your few pages of posts and whilst I wouldn't call you a spammer you haven't really contributed anything substantial either, but I doubt you'd have much issue in getting one merit if you put some more effort in. Requiring one merit to move up a rank really shouldn't be an issue, and if people can't even achieve one merit I would say the problem lies with them.
I understand that the spammers and bot are a bigger issue than a regular person getting a merit to be a Jr. member. But what I'm saying is that I'm a regular person, having regular conversations, posts, and so on. Even though I understand that the spammers and bot are a major issue, I'm just trying to bring light how this really messes up a regular person.
The difficulty is such now that instead of developing through natural conversations, I have to go above and beyond and create really amazing posts. Most regular people are not going to have that ability. So you can see how it hurts the regular person the most.
I am fine with all of it.
Like I know I can go back and improved what I just said if I spend a lot more mental effort and time going over and looking at how I can better express my point. But now instead of being natural and a regular person, I'm forcing myself, using more mental energy, for the hope of getting a merit.
The cost, energy that one has to use for hopefully getting a merit puts us at a disadvantage.
I'm really amazed people are offering for sale and they also have buyers for Jr Members...
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--4655720
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--2962770
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-jr-member-and-member-account-escrow-accepted-4693792
Really? Probably half of the "buyers' are alts of the seller but still..
1 Jr Member- $22
This is just insane, if indeed there is going to be 1-5 merit requirement what's going to happen?
The price for newbie accounts hits 10$ and for jr 100$?
Let's add Mod bots to this.
Farming bots will make mistakes, they don't give a damn, Mod bots making mistakes might damage the forum and hurt real users.
In the end...the evil bots will win this round also.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--4655720
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--2962770
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-jr-member-and-member-account-escrow-accepted-4693792
Really? Probably half of the "buyers' are alts of the seller but still..
1 Jr Member- $22
This is just insane, if indeed there is going to be 1-5 merit requirement what's going to happen?
The price for newbie accounts hits 10$ and for jr 100$?
They are banned when spotted.
Assuming they're bots, and Mods are human, Mods can't win this Let's add Mod bots to this.
Farming bots will make mistakes, they don't give a damn, Mod bots making mistakes might damage the forum and hurt real users.
In the end...the evil bots will win this round also.
I'm trying to code a bot which automates my daily reporting tasks. The only problem is, there are no set of steps that I could establish which will be performed repeatedly by the bot.
If you can pull this off, can I feed your bot reports too?Quote
Considering I somehow manage to create a bot that does mass accounts reporting on basis of any set of criteria that I define
The criteria will have to change a lot.I can quite easily list thousands of Newbie posts that could be reported as "Insubstantial post", and thus deleted. But doing this manually would drive me crazy, so I only dump lists of spamming accounts once in a while.
Quote
mods would still need an automation from there side to handle say daily 500 reports generated by the bot.
There's MindlessElectron, although I don't know what it does exactly.
I think the people from the post you posted should be penalized in different way. I have yet to get a merit, and as far as I can tell other legit JR. members also. It's not fair that we should be penalized because of obvious spammers.
If you are a normal poster, meaning that you spend some time outside the Altcoin board and join debates, it shouldn't be difficult to get one merit. In fact, that should be quite easy and in no time.
The problem we have in the forum is a situation like this one, for instance: https://www.seoclerk.com/Traffic/611690/Create-Bitcointalk-Account
Low-life guys spamming the forum as a work.
You don't have to be a bot or an obvious spammer. There are many users who just write 30 one liners over the required time and then they become a Junior Member with no effort whatsoever. People are farming accounts in their hundreds if not thousands this way. Requiring one merit is not outrageous, but it certainly makes farming Junior accounts much more harder and doesn't really effect those others who are here to contribute something as they will likely get the merit pretty fast. I've just looked over your few pages of posts and whilst I wouldn't call you a spammer you haven't really contributed anything substantial either, but I doubt you'd have much issue in getting one merit if you put some more effort in. Requiring one merit to move up a rank really shouldn't be an issue, and if people can't even achieve one merit I would say the problem lies with them.
Precisely. It is not only about bots, but about spamming.
As you can see in the example I posted, the guy is offering to create Jr accounts for $50, and it is allowed to ask if you want an account with more activity.
I bet that the posting activity of any of these accounts is nothing but shit.
By implementing the 1 merit requirement for juniors, we will get rid of those, and his "business" will become somehow difficult to achieve.
But I truly believe it will be needed more than a single merit, maybe 5, for the merit market is actually happening, and it can be easy to buy one or to transfer one merit from an account to another.
Joel_Jantsen: try to write a bot that imports .csv file with 3 columns: UserID;PostID;Reason
I don't think the userID is needed, right?Quote
LoyceV: If you can feed Joel_Jantsen's bot with the above mentioned .csv file, that would make the report based on your data
Example:3205950.msg42165412#msg42165412; posted only "good"
3279292.msg41816885#msg41816885; posted only "good"
3279292.msg41917949#msg41917949; posted only "good"
3279292.msg41942536#msg41942536; posted only "good"
3799562.msg41826741#msg41826741; posted only "good"
4261044.msg42184284#msg42184284; posted only "good"
4266620.msg41874493#msg41874493; posted only "good"
4476057.msg41869138#msg41869138; posted only "good"
4476057.msg41886683#msg41886683; posted only "good"
4481864.msg42030125#msg42030125; posted only "good"
4525894.msg41831069#msg41831069; posted only "good"
4529623.msg42214245#msg42214245; posted only "good"
4541512.msg42116144#msg42116144; posted only "good"
4561885.msg41888140#msg41888140; posted only "good"
4565056.msg42035839#msg42035839; posted only "good"
4583185.msg41803171#msg41803171; posted only "good"
4596710.msg42023624#msg42023624; posted only "good"
4605531.msg41975274#msg41975274; posted only "good"
4611692.msg42275570#msg42275570; posted only "good"
4611692.msg42275772#msg42275772; posted only "good"
4659238.msg42118638#msg42118638; posted only "good"
4659238.msg42128582#msg42128582; posted only "good"
4671938.msg42193692#msg42193692; posted only "good"
4671938.msg42219215#msg42219215; posted only "good"
4677962.msg42223935#msg42223935; posted only "good"
4677962.msg42224524#msg42224524; posted only "good"
4566542.msg42365709#msg42365709; posted only "good"
4685398.msg42344600#msg42344600; posted only "good"
4692708.msg42405265#msg42405265; posted only "good"
4692793.msg42367317#msg42367317; posted only "good"
This was just a quick check from 10 days of Patrol data. I don't think there's any doubt these posts are Insubstantial and should be deleted. Some of them are gone already.
I can quite easily extend this search to many more keywords.
I'm trying to code a bot which automates my daily reporting tasks. The only problem is, there are no set of steps that I could establish which will be performed repeatedly by the bot.
If you can pull this off, can I feed your bot reports too?...
Joel_Jantsen: try to write a bot that imports .csv file with 3 columns: UserID;PostID;Reason
LoyceV: If you can feed Joel_Jantsen's bot with the above mentioned .csv file, that would make the report based on your data
Just make sure that it's not available for the public, because spammers would start to use it to generate false reports....
I'm trying to code a bot which automates my daily reporting tasks. The only problem is, there are no set of steps that I could establish which will be performed repeatedly by the bot.
If you can pull this off, can I feed your bot reports too?Quote
Considering I somehow manage to create a bot that does mass accounts reporting on basis of any set of criteria that I define
The criteria will have to change a lot.I can quite easily list thousands of Newbie posts that could be reported as "Insubstantial post", and thus deleted. But doing this manually would drive me crazy, so I only dump lists of spamming accounts once in a while.
Quote
mods would still need an automation from there side to handle say daily 500 reports generated by the bot.
There's MindlessElectron, although I don't know what it does exactly. They are banned when spotted.
Assuming they're bots, and Mods are human, Mods can't win this They are banned when spotted.
Assuming they're bots, and Mods are human, Mods can't win this Why such users cannot be banished without the right to restore accounts. There are rules of the forum-it's like a Constitution. Who its violates the ban. Social networks don't stand on ceremony - broke rules - have a rest. Here it is time to enter such system long ago-users arrive every day to garbage becomes more and more.
They are banned when spotted. The trouble is they have hundreds if not thousands of accounts stockpiled and ready to use, and as Loyce said bellow you can't really win a war against automation. The biggest weapon we have against them is a simple captcha and that can obviously be bypassed very easily. Without putting in more hurdles to jump through you can't really do anything about it, but that just annoys or penalises everybody else in the process (and bots don't get annoyed).
Not sure if anyone has requested this or not before, but I think we should consider adding a small merit requirement to become a Junior Member. Even if it was just a one merit requirement I think it would help a lot, because far too many spammers and spambots are getting the rank and once they hit that they can't be nuked. We're getting hit by a lot of these 'haiku' bots as people keep calling them (though I think they're more like doge bots: riveting business, spotless design, much wow):
Those are all Junior Members and their posts all follow the same format. There's also hundreds of them. They should be nuked as deleting their posts one by one is incredibly time consuming. Alternatively, allowing Globals or something to nuke Juniors would also help.
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Those are all Junior Members and their posts all follow the same format. There's also hundreds of them. They should be nuked as deleting their posts one by one is incredibly time consuming. Alternatively, allowing Globals or something to nuke Juniors would also help.
Why such users cannot be banished without the right to restore accounts. There are rules of the forum-it's like a Constitution. Who its violates the ban. Social networks don't stand on ceremony - broke rules - have a rest. Here it is time to enter such system long ago-users arrive every day to garbage becomes more and more.
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