Topic: RESOLVED (Read 1071 times)

Hello,

Just wanted to let you know that the reason I was silent for the past week is because I am still talking to Wintomato per email. I expect to have more news next week.

I don't think they are broke, they have a very small team and low cost website. Any casino or sportsbook can make a lot of money if they don't blow it on advertising and too much staff.
But in case they cannot afford the whole amount: that's why I offered them also the solution to pay 150mbtc per month for 12 months long. Which they refused.

They offered me $6000 which is ofcourse not acceptable since it means they still stole $23.000 and then they indeed stopped replying.

So, I just spent 6 hours doing some very accurate research and these are the results:

I manually calculated and doublechecked all my bets placed during the entire 11 months lifetime of my account and these are the numbers per month:
Dec 2021: -$7.947 over a total of 27 bets
Jan 2022: +$9.138 over a total of 120 bets
Feb 2022: +$3.491 over a total of 132 bets
Mar 2022: -$10.459 over a total of 24 bets
Apr 2022: -$12.284 over a total of 63 bets
May 2022: -$23.680 over a total of 111 bets
Jun 2022: -$43.582 over a total of 94 bets
Jul 2022: -$15.149 over a total of 73 bets
Aug 2022: -$1.826 over a total of 75 bets
Sep 2022: +$22.665 over a total of 57 bets
Oct 2022: -$3.668 over a total fo 42 bets
Nov 2022: +$42.039 over a total of 126 bets (this number has the cancelled bets still counted as wins)

So from these numbers we can draw the following conclusions:
- I started with a losing month, then 2 winning months so I was $4682 in the plus on March 1st. If I was a value bettor, why did Wintomato not at this point already cancel all my bets? They should have had enough evidence (not saying I am value betting, but they are) after 3 months and being in plus. If they would have voided all bets at that point, it would have saved me a lot of losses in the next months at least.
- Then, as you can see from 1st March until 31st August 6 losing months in a row, bringing my total account losses to a massive $102.298. How on earth can you lose so much for such a long period if you are doing value betting? This is statistically impossible.
- Then, in September finally a good month. Apparently they still accepted this, which is ofcourse logical if you see how much they earned from me already.
- Sadly this did not continue in October as I had another bad month, although not as bad as previous losing months
- And then in November I finally got on a really good run, which we can surely call a winning streak. Even though, with this good run included my account was still at an overall loss of $41.262. And then they decided it was already too much and confiscated roughly $29.000 from my account, bringing back the total losses to around $70.000

Then, lets's look at the 17 cancelled won bets from the screenshots in the opening post of this topic and what odds other sportsbooks were offering at those exact same times and scores in those games. Those are taken from betsapi.com where everyone (including Wintomato) can log in (even using Facebook without having to register) for free to check all live odds at certain times and game scores, which means it's very accurate and totally independent.
1) Chicago Bulls @ 2,52 versus Boston Celtics at score 15:10 at 2:23 AM CET on Nov 22:
At this exact same moment Bet365 had odds of 2,60 while Marathonbet and Cashpoint both had 2.50. As you can see the 2,52 of Wintomato is clearly not off.
2) Indiana Pacers @ 1,27 versus Orlando Magic at score 8:1 at 1:16 AM CET on Nov 22:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,28 while Bet365 had 1,27. Again, the odds of Wintomato are not off.
3) Indiana Pacers @ 1,24 versus Orlando Magic at score 8:1 at 1:17 AM CET on Nov 22:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,26 while Betsson had 1,23. Again, the odds of Wintomato were not off.
4) LA Lakers @ 1,18 versus San Antonio Spurs at score 34:20 at 4:05 AM CET on Nov 21:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,20 while Unibet had 1,17. Once again, Wintomato odds were not out of line.
5) Denver Nuggets @ 2,74 versus Dallas Mavericks at score 40:32 at 2:21 AM CET on Nov 21:
At this exact same moment Bet365 had odds of 2,65 while Betsson had 2,55. Okay, for this game Wintomato had slightly higher odds than others, but clearly not far off enough to warrant a void.
6) Sacramento Kings @ 1,69 versus Detroit Pistons at score 117:118 at 2:16 AM CET on Nov 21:
At this exact same moment Betsson had odds of 1,74, while Bet365 had 1,63 and Unibet had 1,62. As you can see, the Wintomato odds were not out of line.
7) Indiana Pacers @ 3,70 versus Houston Rockets at score 23:40 at 2:52 AM CET on Nov 19:
At this exact same moment Betsson had odds of 4,15 while Bet365 had odds of 4,10. In hindsight you can even say I got pretty low odds from Wintomato here.
8 ) Washington Wizards @ 2,97 versus Miami Heat at score 57:69 at 2:06 AM CET on Nov 19:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 3,25 while Marathonbet had 2,91 and Unibet 2,80. Again, Wintomato odds were not off from others.
9) LA Clippers @ 1,62 versus Detroit Pistons at score 15:23 at 5:10 AM CET on Nov 18:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,70 while Unibet had 1,64. Yet again Wintomato was not even the best around.
10) NY Knicks @ 1,69 versus Denver Nuggets at score 66:60 at 5:31 AM CET on Nov 17:
At this exact same moment Bet365 had odds of 1,66. So yes, Wintomato was slightly the highest here, but not by such a margin that it should be void.
11) Toronto Raptors @ 2,52 versus Miami Heat at score 18:27 at 1:58 AM CET on Nov 17:
At this exact same moment both Betsson and Cashpoint had odds of 2.50. So totally comparable odds to Wintomato.
12) NY Knicks @ 1,58 versus Utah Jazz at score 94:89 at 4:57 AM CET on Nov 16:
At this exact same moment Bet365 had odds of 1,54, so Wintomato had slightly better odds but not clear enough to warrant a void.
13) Dallas Mavericks @ 1,55 versus LA Clippers at score 70:68 at 4:26 AM CET on Nov 16:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,70 and Bet365 had 1,57. So again Wintomato not even the highest here.
14) Miami Heat @ 1,52 versus Phoenix Suns at score 109:107 at 3:45 AM CET on Nov 15:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 1,70 while Bet365 had odds of 1,53. Yet again Wintomato not the highest.
15) Sacramento Kings @ 2,78 versus GS Warriors at score 80:78 at 4:35 AM CET on Nov 14:
At this exact same moment Cashpoint had odds of 2,90. So clearly the Wintomato odds were not too high.
16) Minnesota Timberwolves @ 1,21 versus Cleveland at score 40:20 at 0:38 AM CET on Nov 14:
At this exact same moment Betsson had odds of 1,16. So yes, we can say Wintomato was relatively high here. Personally I don't think such a difference warrants a void, but this odd comes closest to warrant a void of all games I have described here.
17) Oklahoma City Thunder @ 1,88 versus NY Knicks at score 94:88 at 19:36 PM CET on Nov 13:
At this exact same moment Unibet had odds of 1,85 while Betsson had 1,82. Yes, Wintomato was slightly higher but the margin is so small that it cannot warrant a void.

So, I think the picture is pretty clear: in a big minus overall, and on nearly each of the 17 void bets the odds of Wintomato were not even the best around. To confiscate a balance from an 11-month long loyal customer who finally had 1 really good month, is very very harsh.

Wintomato, if you read this be honest and simply admit you acted way too harsh. Go ahead and look at the betsapi.com website and see for yourself. If I am a value bettor then I am a really dumb one because I could have shopped around for better odds on almost every game. And if I was doing value betting it would statistically be impossible to have 6 big losing months in a row over such a large sample.

If this does not get solved then it will be big red flag for any potential new customer.

They actually replied today. Not the kind of reply I was looking for but at least they are talking again, so I answered back to them. Will give them a few more days to consider my offer and will let you know once there is a resolution.

Complaint resolved.

As a side note, I've been considering about posting this since yesterday for the sake of protecting OP's best interest, in concern that they'll voided OP's next installment --yes, as I've been contemplating about it since yesterday, it also means I am completely aware about a certain missing post-- but I think it won't be fair for other user of they didn't get forewarned of the possible risk they're facing upon signing up to wintomato, so...

I am leaving a negative tag as well, forcing your customer into NDA just in order for them to get what's rightfully theirs is not a good practice. If wintomato has nothing to hide and their allegation is true, then they won't force the NDA; it only proves that they wrongly accuses and ban player without plausible reason. Further, not sure if the real reason behind the unproven accusation is because they want to void the winning because they can't pay it or for other reason, but the fact that they need to install a payment amounted 29,000 USD certainly worth a caution, it could mean they're illiquid and possess some degree of possibility that future user will get their payment unfulfilled too.

Will change them to neutral tag when they paid in full, and will consider to remove the tag if they can provide plausible and concrete story behind this case.

I still have the tag on this casino and will not remove it without an explanation as to the terms of the deal. There is no reason for it to be a hidden deal. I also will not remove it unless the OP was paid in full and proof provided.

A casino should not be operating if it cannot pay out a win in full(unless their ToS say max monthly payout or something). With a deal reached and the op told to keep silent makes the casino look scammy as fuck.

Judging your bet size you really high roller with big pockets.
is not suprised  that you take a lawyer and try to beat them up.


You said you closed deal with the casino just becareful. If he tried to scam you once is not a guy you could trust and make deal withs. it may be a set up.

Obviously he understands now that you have money and you are not going to let it go and he is afraid.

Thanks for the update @OP

I'm happy to see your case are already resolved, although I don't know what's the agreement and how much they're already pay to you, but if it's goes wrong, you need to update in this accusation again.

Since you're said this case is already resolved, it's better if you add RESOLVED word in the subject title and lock this topic.

Guys, I am glad to announce that my dispute with Wintomato has been RESOLVED since we came to an agreement. Part of the deal is that I cannot say anything about the conditions so I'm sorry I won't be able to answer questions about it. This will also be my last post in this topic. Thank you all so much for the help, without the Bitcointalk community this would have been much harder!

I was curious, so I checked two random matches on betsapi to confirm if the information OP provided below is true.
The first match I took a look at was:

I can confirm that the odds on bet365 according to betsapi were indeed 1.27 as can be seen here. You might need to be logged in to the betsapi app to see the whole history of odds. I didn't check the other betting companies. Bet365 is the largest, so there is no need.

The second much I checked was:

This particular situation is a bit different. The odds were updated that exact second. Bet365 had odds of 1.571, and in that exact second the odds increased to 1.666. Everyone can check it out here.

Is that enough to void and cancel the bet? I don't think so. If bet365 kept their odds at 1.571 and didn't update to 1.666, I would say that Wintomato had a valid reason to void those bets. But that isn't the case here.

@GekkeBelg
Have you created a flag against Wintomato? I think you should do that. I haven't seen anything from their side to suggest they were right to cancel your winnings. If there is something like that, I would like them to show it to me. And since they have decided to stay silent on this matter, it's clear to me that they don't want to handle this properly.

So where's the Wintomato's representative aka scammer? the account last active was December 7, but their last post was November 26 which mean they're shut their mouth for around 2 weeks. If the @OP is scammer why Wintomato doesn't make continuous reply? as we can see the @OP here is the one who keep replying. If you're right, don't be scared, actually the scared one is the scammer.

@OP you need to ask them to pay you the complete $29K, if they only want to pay $6K it means they don't have enough bankroll to pay you.

If you could update your opening post with this alongside with a screenshot as an evidence of their counter-offer, it'll be nice. I find it quite questionable for their side, if they're sure your account is cheating but then decided upon a "good will" by paying you one-fifth of amount due, isn't it a bit strange? If they're very sure you're an abuser, they won't do anything and keep on pressing with their defense.


Last time, it worked nicely. They were "too busy" with updating their staff that they missed the accusation for months. Given this one is not even clear what's the real reason why they canceled OP's WD, let's see if a nice orange number on their profile helps motivate them enough to handle this case more seriously.

I have tagged their forum account in hopes they will reply here and give you some answers. They have been online in the past week. They have had some issues in the past here so I don't know if they will want to solve your issues. They might be too broke to pay you.

I thought you're exchanging emails with them? Was this mean the resolution you're looking for is not reached? Or are they stopped replying again? If they're still looking and discussing for a solution with you by emails, I think it's quite unfair if you reached here and post something that made them looks bad ---fact and data or not-- although they're still in a good will. Unless they went MIA again?

Wow that is pretty shocking that even if you lose big they can still just take your funds!
You are right that it can't be value betting if you lose over a period of a year and especially if the odds looked quite normal!

You sent the email on December 3rd? Are they replying you through email? As I can see that they're online again yesterday, so the chance is almost zero that any of their staff didn't notice your offer. It's bound to happen by --at least-- now that either they saw the email or their representative read your post here. Seems they choose to ignore you if you're yet to get any, any, reply.

You may as well start the legal proceedings is how it sounds to me. If they haven't paid you by now, I doubt that they plan to. They are likely going to stick to their claim and see if you go away.

I do wonder the same thing. However, it's fair to point out that we are starting to see accusations against Stake as well that seem sketchy to say the least. No one is guilty until proven to be guilty of wrongdoings, but it's worth keeping an eye out. I think there is one or two active scam accusations against Stake at the top of this board right now.