[RESOLVED] MagicByt3 - refusing to honor his auction contract - page 2.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: Quickseller on February 24, 2020, 03:05:05 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 24, 2020, 01:21:59 PM

** Edit **

I also await a review from Last of the v8's when his bar arrives I was informed it was shipped from the escrow to him today..

It will be good when your customers confirm receipt of your bars. However any positive trust score you get out of this auction will be overshadowed by what happened during the auction and before you shipped.

If you have other items you want to sell, you can auction them off, and if you do, you should take this as a learning experience and refine how you conduct business.

Good luck.

I already have conformation of the first 2 being received one was bought by the escrow agent and the 2nd is being re-shipped by him.

I still don't think what I asked for was uncalled for.

I have no previous dealing with either the buyer or the escrow service.

I was asked to ship direct to the buyer outside the terms of the listing, without any proofs if me requiring a signature on delivery as per the listing was not acceptable then the buyer should not have bid.

The escrow was also the buyer choice.

All I asked for was proof that the escrow was indeed holding the funds and all this could have been avoided.

I took responsibility for the poor outline of the auction terms but nothing underhand was attempted at any point.

End of the day a contract is only valid if Both party's agree on it not just one I have bowed to peer pressure and shipped without proof and on the "word" of the community.

Anyway item is now shipped I doubt I will conduct any sales here again the experience has been horrible from a simple mistake into 2 super threads where I have been accused of underhanded tactics.

Shame I had some nice plans ahead for some more custom stuff but I doubt I will go ahead with them now.

Magic

Quickseller

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 24, 2020, 01:21:59 PM

** Edit **

I also await a review from Last of the v8's when his bar arrives I was informed it was shipped from the escrow to him today..

It will be good when your customers confirm receipt of your bars. However any positive trust score you get out of this auction will be overshadowed by what happened during the auction and before you shipped.

If you have other items you want to sell, you can auction them off, and if you do, you should take this as a learning experience and refine how you conduct business.

Good luck.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Bar sent to MJ escrow delivery should take around 5 days but I expect it to be sooner.

I have given both MJ and Tecshare the tracking information and photos of the item in the post office.

I look forward to receiving my payment from MJ upon delivery.

Thank you

Magic

** Edit **

I also await a review from Last of the v8's when his bar arrives I was informed it was shipped from the escrow to him today..

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So much wasted Internet.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 23, 2020, 04:59:39 AM

First: the auction terms were terrible (see unedited post):

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 11, 2020, 10:56:47 AM

:Auction Terms:
Starting Price: 0.01 BTC PER BAR

:Starting Bid:
Bid Increments: +0.002 BTC on *Bar 1,2 or 3*

My first impression was reading: "Starting Bid 0.002".
What MagicByt3 wrote can easily be misinterpreted. And that could easily have been prevented:

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 21, 2020, 05:14:07 PM

My terms were clear.

No, not really, as explained above.

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 19, 2020, 10:02:47 AM

The open price shown is 0.01BTC
Bids should have been 0.002 BTC

How can you not see this is far from intuitive?

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 21, 2020, 02:33:17 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

We have all been here for years and know how things run.

2. The bar is to be directly send to the buyer not to the escrow.
~
How is this escrow if I have to send directly to the buyer escrow is to protect BOTH party's not just the buyer.
I did ask to send it direct to MJ escrow but he said no the buyer has requested direct send.

I've never used escrow, so I'm not familiar with "how things run", but I would have had the same expectation as MagicByt3. What's the point of using an escrow if the escrow doesn't check both parts of the trade?

Quote from: teeGUMES on February 21, 2020, 02:48:58 PM

I have consistently through my time here used various different escrows across the forum and never once have shipped my item to the escrow. It is always direct send. I have been the buyer and the seller for many high priced items.
Saying "you and I both know this isn't how escrow works" is completely wrong and shows your inexperience and stubbornness.

Hypothetical: even with signed delivery, what happens if the seller ships a brick? It's still going to be the seller's word against the buyer's word, which negates the use of escrow.

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 21, 2020, 04:38:03 PM

TECHSHARE won't give me the TXID... or allow signed..

Based on the PM, it's because of his privacy. I get that for the signed post, but the TXID will become obvious after the escrow forwards funds to the seller. Unless the escrow uses different funds and also acts as a mixer, but my assumption would be input > output (minus fees).

Quote from: Last of the V8s on February 19, 2020, 06:03:24 AM

But I think as it stands this situation stems more from inexperience and lacking communication skills than anything more sinister.

Agreed!

Quote from: jimjam123 on February 21, 2020, 09:42:52 AM

Honestly guys I think this is just getting way out of proportion.

Agreed!

Quote from: anonymousminer on February 21, 2020, 06:17:24 PM

What a shitshow.... round and round and round....

This sums it up nicely. I've read most of the topic, but this filled far more pages than needed.

I'm glad this sorta came to an end already

Thank you LoyceV, I just was not happy sending the bar direct to the buyer without signed for delivery as I would have had no leg to stand on if he claimed it didn't arrive or it was not as described this was the main issue.

I accept my terms should and could have been much clearer I do accept that was my fault there was confusion over the bidding process but I never tried to do what Techshare is saying by trying to gain additional funds in my view the bids were correct and I have made a detailed post on this but again accept it may not have been a conventional way to sell here on the forum.

I am only human and people make mistakes I am doing what the community asks of me by shipping now to the escrow.

I have taken the advice and I will ship there's not really anything more to say on this matter.

Thanks for the advice.

Magic

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First: the auction terms were terrible (see unedited post):

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 11, 2020, 10:56:47 AM

:Auction Terms:
Starting Price: 0.01 BTC PER BAR

:Starting Bid:
Bid Increments: +0.002 BTC on *Bar 1,2 or 3*

My first impression was reading: "Starting Bid 0.002".
What MagicByt3 wrote can easily be misinterpreted. And that could easily have been prevented:

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 21, 2020, 05:14:07 PM

My terms were clear.

No, not really, as explained above.

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 19, 2020, 10:02:47 AM

The open price shown is 0.01BTC
Bids should have been 0.002 BTC

How can you not see this is far from intuitive?

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 21, 2020, 02:33:17 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

We have all been here for years and know how things run.

2. The bar is to be directly send to the buyer not to the escrow.
~
How is this escrow if I have to send directly to the buyer escrow is to protect BOTH party's not just the buyer.
I did ask to send it direct to MJ escrow but he said no the buyer has requested direct send.

I've never used escrow, so I'm not familiar with "how things run", but I would have had the same expectation as MagicByt3. What's the point of using an escrow if the escrow doesn't check both parts of the trade?

Quote from: teeGUMES on February 21, 2020, 02:48:58 PM

I have consistently through my time here used various different escrows across the forum and never once have shipped my item to the escrow. It is always direct send. I have been the buyer and the seller for many high priced items.
Saying "you and I both know this isn't how escrow works" is completely wrong and shows your inexperience and stubbornness.

Hypothetical: even with signed delivery, what happens if the seller ships a brick? It's still going to be the seller's word against the buyer's word, which negates the use of escrow.

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 21, 2020, 04:38:03 PM

TECHSHARE won't give me the TXID... or allow signed..

Based on the PM, it's because of his privacy. I get that for the signed post, but the TXID will become obvious after the escrow forwards funds to the seller. Unless the escrow uses different funds and also acts as a mixer, but my assumption would be input > output (minus fees).

Quote from: Last of the V8s on February 19, 2020, 06:03:24 AM

But I think as it stands this situation stems more from inexperience and lacking communication skills than anything more sinister.

Agreed!

Quote from: jimjam123 on February 21, 2020, 09:42:52 AM

Honestly guys I think this is just getting way out of proportion.

Agreed!

Quote from: anonymousminer on February 21, 2020, 06:17:24 PM

What a shitshow.... round and round and round....

This sums it up nicely. I've read most of the topic, but this filled far more pages than needed.

I'm glad this sorta came to an end already

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on February 22, 2020, 10:28:32 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 22, 2020, 10:19:07 PM

Thanks for the advice I did say why not use wasabi or joinmarket and send a UTXO that was privacy orientated because as it stands if he sends a UTXO to MJ the MJ forwards it to me where is the "privacy" there? there's none I could still look back not that I am even interested in looking back.

Privacy tools are available if the buyer wanted to mask his UTXO to the escrow as it stands I see no privacy with him sending it to escrow then escrow forwarding it to me I still see the last transaction on chain.

Let's just move on bud. Don't take much stress. Once you get the postal address from MJ then just post the item. You will be fine.

Thank you and also to everyone who gave me some advice on this matter.

I look forward to Tecshare getting his bar and this saga being over.

Two happy customers.. One to go..

Magic.

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 22, 2020, 10:19:07 PM

Thanks for the advice I did say why not use wasabi or joinmarket and send a UTXO that was privacy orientated because as it stands if he sends a UTXO to MJ the MJ forwards it to me where is the "privacy" there? there's none I could still look back not that I am even interested in looking back.

Privacy tools are available if the buyer wanted to mask his UTXO to the escrow as it stands I see no privacy with him sending it to escrow then escrow forwarding it to me I still see the last transaction on chain.

Let's just move on bud. Don't take much stress. Once you get the postal address from MJ then just post the item. You will be fine.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on February 22, 2020, 10:14:13 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 22, 2020, 10:00:17 PM

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Yes I missed if I am being honest with you. May be I read but did not actually found it a point to be taken.

Here is an incidence where how I felt in a seriation and I hope this will help you to understand what actually going on in their from physcholocsl points.

A guy came to me for a collateral loan and it was around something 0.04 BTC or so but he was insisting of using an escrow for the alt he will put as colletaral. I really felt annoyed coz I know if anyone would see my history then they would not bother for a third party escrow to hold for only 0.04 BTC loan.

If you see the trading history TECSHARE has then I am pretty sure no one will be much worried about sending him anything. I am sure asking for escrow and all this just annoyed TECSHARE and it's just a natural human reaction.

Take it easy. I am sure end of the deal you will feel hsppy.

Thanks for the advice I did say why not use wasabi or joinmarket and send a UTXO that was privacy orientated because as it stands if he sends a UTXO to MJ the MJ forwards it to me where is the "privacy" there? there's none I could still look back not that I am even interested in looking back.

Privacy tools are available if the buyer wanted to mask his UTXO to the escrow as it stands I see no privacy with him sending it to escrow then escrow forwarding it to me I still see the last transaction on chain.

AB de Royse777

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 22, 2020, 10:00:17 PM

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Yes I missed if I am being honest with you. May be I read but did not actually found it a point to be taken.

Here is an incident where how I felt in a seriation and I hope this will help you to understand what actually going on in there from physcholocsl points.

A guy came to me for a collateral loan and it was around something 0.04 BTC or so but he was insisting of using an escrow for the alt he will put as colletaral. I really felt annoyed coz I know if anyone would see my history then they would not bother for a third party escrow to hold for only 0.04 BTC loan.

If you see the trading history TECSHARE has then I am pretty sure no one will be much worried about sending him anything. I am sure asking for escrow and all this just annoyed TECSHARE and it's just a natural human reaction.

Take it easy. I am sure end of the deal you will feel happy.

Edit:

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 22, 2020, 10:11:48 PM

Will post update once bar is in the post.

you are doing the right thing that you needed to do without being much worried at the beginning.

Cheers,

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: suchmoon on February 22, 2020, 10:09:37 PM

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 22, 2020, 10:00:17 PM

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Water under the bridge. A compromise has been achieved, you're shipping to the escrow. Just focus on completing this deal - it's all in your hands now.

Agreed.. Will post update once bar is in the post.

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Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 22, 2020, 10:00:17 PM

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

Water under the bridge. A compromise has been achieved, you're shipping to the escrow. Just focus on completing this deal - it's all in your hands now.

DaCryptoRaccoon

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Quote from: AB de Royse777 on February 22, 2020, 09:58:42 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on February 22, 2020, 09:36:34 PM

He already agreed so fingers crossed it works out for all involved.

Finally something useful to see. I had to read all the posts made on this topic and all these were really unnecessary magic. Yes, some of your concerns looked valid (Sign on delivery) but when the escrow is holding both money and the item then it's not very necessary.
And talking about MJ - I do not think a single user in the forum who knows MJ will ever doubt about his escrow service. Besides owlcatz gone extra mile. So smile and complete everything from your side that needed to close this deal.

Cheers ,

Did you miss the part where he wanted me to send direct to him not the escrow? without proof of payment to the escrow?

It was me who said no we use the middle man for both the bar and the funds..

he wanted the bar sent direct to him without signature. without proof of payment to escrow or anything..

That was the issues...

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Quote from: suchmoon on February 22, 2020, 09:36:34 PM

He already agreed so fingers crossed it works out for all involved.

Finally something useful to see. I had to read all the posts made on this topic and all these were really unnecessary magic. Yes, some of your concerns looked valid (Sign on delivery) but when the escrow is holding both money and the item then it's not very necessary.
And talking about MJ - I do not think a single user in the forum who knows MJ will ever doubt about his escrow service. Besides owlcatz gone extra mile. So smile and complete everything from your side that needed to close this deal.

Cheers ,

Edit:

Quote from: DaCryptoRaccoon on February 22, 2020, 09:56:49 PM

You can't expect a new seller to blindly accept what is being said about some escrow I never even knew about till the other day without verification.

I'm going by the laws of bitcoin here with don't trust verify but that no longer seems to be valid here...

Sorry that you are feeling this way but when you are accepting an escrow service then you really have to trust him. You will also not need to blindly accept something but you can just see some of the reference feedback about the escrow here MJ of course.

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Quote from: bones261 on February 22, 2020, 09:47:03 PM

Quote from: kryme on February 22, 2020, 09:37:03 PM

Contract laws vary country to country. Exactly whose contract law are we supposed to follow over the internet?

The law in any of the jurisdictions where either party resides, I believe. Perhaps it wouldn't be worth the time and expense to actually seek legal remedies. However, I think someone that has established a good reputation under one identity will have better luck than someone not honoring their deals and becoming fly-by-night newbies.

I don't really know what you mean by this but I have send the escrow a message and await his reply.

Also a contract is only valid if BOTH party's agree on the terms and it's clear I don't agree but i'm being forced to agree by mob rule..

Lets not make this into another long battle.

I have agreed to send even though I have no proof the escrow holds the funds.

You can't expect a new seller to blindly accept what is being said about some escrow I never even knew about till the other day without verification.

I'm going by the laws of bitcoin here with don't trust verify but that no longer seems to be valid here...

** Edit **

PS I don't have any noob alt's to post with so if that's what your trying to say then you sir are very wrong. who ever that is posting is doing so of there own accord and nothing to do with me

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Quote from: kryme on February 22, 2020, 09:37:03 PM

Contract laws vary country to country. Exactly whose contract law are we supposed to follow over the internet?

The law in any of the jurisdictions where either party resides, I believe. Perhaps it wouldn't be worth the time and expense to actually seek legal remedies. However, I think someone that has established a good reputation under one identity will have better luck than someone not honoring their deals and becoming fly-by-night newbies.

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Quote from: bones261 on February 22, 2020, 09:31:50 PM

Quote from: kryme on February 22, 2020, 09:28:30 PM

You're literally an idiot if you think posting on a forum holds you to any legal obligation lmfao

You are literally an idiot, then. When it is in writing, it doesn't matter if it is a text, a social media post or written on good old fashioned paper. A contract is a contract.

Contract laws vary country to country. Exactly whose contract law are we supposed to follow over the internet?

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Quote from: owlcatz on February 22, 2020, 09:29:52 PM

Magic, just ship him the bar. You can trust MJ, regardless of how you feel about the txid.... This insanity has gone on long enough. If you don't get your BTC, I'll fucking pay you instead, how's that? Roll Eyes

He already agreed so fingers crossed it works out for all involved.

Quote from: kryme on February 22, 2020, 09:28:30 PM

You're literally an idiot if you think posting on a forum holds you to any legal obligation lmfao

A trade is a trade regardless if it's on a forum or in Micky D's parking lot. Granted it's unlikely they'd go to court for $100 but it would still be a breach of contract to not honor the deal.

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Quote from: kryme on February 22, 2020, 09:28:30 PM

You're literally an idiot if you think posting on a forum holds you to any legal obligation lmfao

You are literally an idiot, then. When it is in writing, it doesn't matter if it is a text, a social media post or written on good old fashioned paper. A contract is a contract.

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Magic, just ship him the bar. You can trust MJ, regardless of how you feel about the txid.... This insanity has gone on long enough. If you don't get your BTC, I'll fucking pay you instead, how's that? Roll Eyes

Topic: [RESOLVED] MagicByt3 - refusing to honor his auction contract - page 2. (Read 947 times)