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Topic: Ripple starts to conquer the world from China - page 3. (Read 10036 times)

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1000
The balances in the Cyprus accounts just shrunk, it's not like the actual Euros are worth less, there are just less of them.

Currency controls prevent the free movement of Euros out of Cyprus.
Euros in other countries are not so restricted.
As a practical matter, Euros in Cyprus have less utility than those outside of it, and therefore less value.
It's a similar effect as with Mt.Gox now.

Someone could go there with no EUR but enough BTC, change BTC to EUR on a good rate, make a cheap holiday, and come back with some cash in the pocket. Cyprus is nice for making holidays, and it would help them.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
The balances in the Cyprus accounts just shrunk, it's not like the actual Euros are worth less, there are just less of them.

Currency controls prevent the free movement of Euros out of Cyprus.
Euros in other countries are not so restricted.
As a practical matter, Euros in Cyprus have less utility than those outside of it, and therefore less value.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
- an automatic distributed currency exchange is complete vaporware. It will require a lot more than technology to work, e.g. like liquidity.
Nobody is debating the necessity of liquidity in Ripple in order to perform currency exchange.
- debt valuation depends on the debtor, just compare mtgox and bitstamp USD credits now and you understand how this must be handled inside a Ripple scheme. If you were to exchange currency you trade credits with one debtor with credits for another debtor. Here is the econ theoretic argument - any tuple of debtors in such a transaction creates its on market, so the credits are not fungible. Liquidity will be very thin.
Again, I agree with you that liquidity is a huge issue. But if there is liquidity, I'm sure the balances for the most trusted gateways will be worth about the same. Ripple is trying to federate the existing banking system. Nobody today ever says: " It sucks that my Bank of America USD is worth less than my Citibank USD".

Really?
How about: "It sucks that my Bank of Cyprus EUR is worth less than my Bank of Germany EUR"
Seems like I have heard people say that.
The value of an IOU is proportionate to the trustworthiness of the issuer.
Any system that ignores that is broken by design.

The balances in the Cyprus accounts just shrunk, it's not like the actual Euros are worth less, there are just less of them.

AFIK the ripple protocol allows you to assign quality factors to your own trust lines to compensate for that risk.

I just logged on to Ripple for 1st time in 2 months.
It looks like there's been ZERO progress.

On github there are 234 open Bug Reports...
If your money disappears you just become another "Bug". What fun.

https://github.com/ripple/ripple-client/issues?state=open

You still cannot produce a Tax Compliant trading report...
Via History Page or any other manner...
I remember the Devs being mystified why any trader would need detailed records...
Hippies don't pay taxes, I suppose.

I used the API and it's a joke...
To get a transaction... a DB record is JSON stringed and dumped on the Net...
Every transaction requires a 2,500 string be converted twice...
And *** no transaction is guaranteed to be available ***...
It depends if there is a server willing to send you information.

People take money super-seriously...
People send money to feed their families and pay for cancer surgery...
For many people transmitting money is a life and death matter...
That, baby, is worth $20 or whatever.

The people at OpenCoin have no respect for this...
To the hippy devs at Ripple money is an esoteric concept in their cool code.

Western Union takes money very, very seriously...
And have a massive Security Department... not a Cryptology Fetish.

Reuters has been selling out-of-the-box sub 1 millisecond trading for 5-6 years...
The laughable Ripple network is something Reuters might have been doing in the mid 90s.

Sorry, but 2 months ago I decided Ripple was doomed... and it worse looks now.


elm
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
is there a merchant who is using ripple for BTC payments? and can shed some light because I am still in the dark. any help is very much appreciated
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
- an automatic distributed currency exchange is complete vaporware. It will require a lot more than technology to work, e.g. like liquidity.
Nobody is debating the necessity of liquidity in Ripple in order to perform currency exchange.
- debt valuation depends on the debtor, just compare mtgox and bitstamp USD credits now and you understand how this must be handled inside a Ripple scheme. If you were to exchange currency you trade credits with one debtor with credits for another debtor. Here is the econ theoretic argument - any tuple of debtors in such a transaction creates its on market, so the credits are not fungible. Liquidity will be very thin.
Again, I agree with you that liquidity is a huge issue. But if there is liquidity, I'm sure the balances for the most trusted gateways will be worth about the same. Ripple is trying to federate the existing banking system. Nobody today ever says: " It sucks that my Bank of America USD is worth less than my Citibank USD".

Really?
How about: "It sucks that my Bank of Cyprus EUR is worth less than my Bank of Germany EUR"
Seems like I have heard people say that.
The value of an IOU is proportionate to the trustworthiness of the issuer.
Any system that ignores that is broken by design.

The balances in the Cyprus accounts just shrunk, it's not like the actual Euros are worth less, there are just less of them.

AFIK the ripple protocol allows you to assign quality factors to your own trust lines to compensate for that risk.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
- an automatic distributed currency exchange is complete vaporware. It will require a lot more than technology to work, e.g. like liquidity.
Nobody is debating the necessity of liquidity in Ripple in order to perform currency exchange.
- debt valuation depends on the debtor, just compare mtgox and bitstamp USD credits now and you understand how this must be handled inside a Ripple scheme. If you were to exchange currency you trade credits with one debtor with credits for another debtor. Here is the econ theoretic argument - any tuple of debtors in such a transaction creates its on market, so the credits are not fungible. Liquidity will be very thin.
Again, I agree with you that liquidity is a huge issue. But if there is liquidity, I'm sure the balances for the most trusted gateways will be worth about the same. Ripple is trying to federate the existing banking system. Nobody today ever says: " It sucks that my Bank of America USD is worth less than my Citibank USD".

Really?
How about: "It sucks that my Bank of Cyprus EUR is worth less than my Bank of Germany EUR"
Seems like I have heard people say that.
The value of an IOU is proportionate to the trustworthiness of the issuer.
Any system that ignores that is broken by design.
yvv
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1000
.

You just need to offer your services to Ripple community, because every Rippler can make a direct payment to any bitcoin address from his Ripple wallet via something called "Bitcoin Bridge". Basically, every Rippler is actually Bitcoiner too Cheesy
Just what we need, a centralized interception of Bitcoin transactions too. Was Ripple designed by the NSA?



We totally agree.

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tin-foil-hat.jpg?f9d891
erk
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 500

You just need to offer your services to Ripple community, because every Rippler can make a direct payment to any bitcoin address from his Ripple wallet via something called "Bitcoin Bridge". Basically, every Rippler is actually Bitcoiner too Cheesy
Just what we need, a centralized interception of Bitcoin transactions too. Was Ripple designed by the NSA?

hero member
Activity: 628
Merit: 500
Actually whoever invests in ripple now is making a huge mistake.

Ripple is not just a alt-coin, it's a payment system that makes easier for people in countries with rigid bank regulations to move their money, so I really think that OpenCoin made a good move, it's like they asked me for advice Cheesy

can You point me to an URL to get more info about their payment system? can I use them to get payments in BTC and do Pay outs in BTC for my website?

Read this pages for Ripple merchants:
https://ripple.com/partners/

thanks I have read it. ok sounds good but is there some one who has already used it and can give some feedback?

cheers

I haven't been using Ripple as a merchant, so I can't talk about that side of Ripple.

On the other side, I think you don't need to become a Ripple merchant at all, your bitcoin enabled website is just fine.

You just need to offer your services to Ripple community, because every Rippler can make a direct payment to any bitcoin address from his Ripple wallet via something called "Bitcoin Bridge". Basically, every Rippler is actually Bitcoiner too Cheesy
elm
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
Actually whoever invests in ripple now is making a huge mistake.

Ripple is not just a alt-coin, it's a payment system that makes easier for people in countries with rigid bank regulations to move their money, so I really think that OpenCoin made a good move, it's like they asked me for advice Cheesy

can You point me to an URL to get more info about their payment system? can I use them to get payments in BTC and do Pay outs in BTC for my website?

Read this pages for Ripple merchants:
https://ripple.com/partners/

thanks I have read it. ok sounds good but is there some one who has already used it and can give some feedback?

cheers
hero member
Activity: 669
Merit: 500
The other thing people miss: XRP = Market Making Currency...
If the network is ever scaled up...
The most favorable exchange price will always flow through XRP...

Trading XRP has huge risks involved (even more than trading BTC and these can be already quite volatile), I doubt that there will be big liquidity providers using XRP trades in the longer run. This is paired with an entity that is known to be willing to sell its stash (unlike Satoshi who is controlling a large part of all available BTC but has disappeared). If you want to play the big investor and market maker, you should definitely stay within BTC territory and not mess with XRP.

Sukrim, I alwais appreciate your posts but here I have to strongly disagree: XRPs are the fuel of the ripple network. Every gateway must have a strong market between his IOUs and XRP if it wants his IOUs to be liquid and exploit the potential of the federate protocol (managing a single market a gateway can link its currency to every other currency in the ripple network, instead of dealing one by one with thousands of gateways and different tokens)

This difference in usage between XRP and BTC should be pointed out. Bitcoin has an ideological push as "currency for the people" (regardless of the fact that we believe in it or not) that XRP hasn't, because it's not designed for that purpose.
Shouldn't be so hard to think at XRP as a "business" currency, useful for entrepreneurs, market makers and investors (the reckless ones Cheesy) while the Ripple Network is for the people, even and especially bitcoiners.

And this perspective, in my point of view, could solve many of the misunderstandings we see here at bitcointalk.

sr. member
Activity: 403
Merit: 251
It is foolish to believe their Ripple will help Bitcoin in any way as the much quoted benefits are based on faulty conclusions,
- an automatic distributed currency exchange is complete vaporware. It will require a lot more than technology to work, e.g. like liquidity.
- debt valuation depends on the debtor


If (in the far future) everyone will have an open-sourced Ripple server and XRP valuation has left bubble territory,
it's almost an automatic distributed trustless currency exchange and it will help Bitcoin. Almost because you still have to trust a gateway for
transactions.

hero member
Activity: 628
Merit: 500
Actually whoever invests in ripple now is making a huge mistake.

Ripple is not just a alt-coin, it's a payment system that makes easier for people in countries with rigid bank regulations to move their money, so I really think that OpenCoin made a good move, it's like they asked me for advice Cheesy

can You point me to an URL to get more info about their payment system? can I use them to get payments in BTC and do Pay outs in BTC for my website?

Read this pages for Ripple merchants:
https://ripple.com/partners/
elm
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
Actually whoever invests in ripple now is making a huge mistake.

Ripple is not just a alt-coin, it's a payment system that makes easier for people in countries with rigid bank regulations to move their money, so I really think that OpenCoin made a good move, it's like they asked me for advice Cheesy

can You point me to an URL to get more info about their payment system? can I use them to get payments in BTC and do Pay outs in BTC for my website?
hero member
Activity: 628
Merit: 500
The most telling thing about OC Ripple is how everyone defending it makes such terribly flimsy, not-even-trying arguments. Without exception they give off the impression that they are merely to continue firing back even if all they have left to load in their cannon is wet noodles. "It's open source because it hasn't been released with a closed source license"? I can't even imagine a more tepid and transparent response.

OCRipple remains the most boneheadedly galling and brazen ploy since pirate@40.

It hasn't been released yet at all, nor under open-source, nor under closed-source licence, it's planned to be open-source when it's released.
Do you realize that your argument is that Ripple supporters are wrong?
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
The most telling thing about OC Ripple is how everyone defending it makes such terribly flimsy, not-even-trying arguments. Without exception they give off the impression that they are merely to continue firing back even if all they have left to load in their cannon is wet noodles. "It's open source because it hasn't been released with a closed source license"? I can't even imagine a more tepid and transparent response.

OCRipple remains the most boneheadedly galling and brazen ploy since pirate@40.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
- an automatic distributed currency exchange is complete vaporware. It will require a lot more than technology to work, e.g. like liquidity.
Nobody is debating the necessity of liquidity in Ripple in order to perform currency exchange.
- debt valuation depends on the debtor, just compare mtgox and bitstamp USD credits now and you understand how this must be handled inside a Ripple scheme. If you were to exchange currency you trade credits with one debtor with credits for another debtor. Here is the econ theoretic argument - any tuple of debtors in such a transaction creates its on market, so the credits are not fungible. Liquidity will be very thin.
Again, I agree with you that liquidity is a huge issue. But if there is liquidity, I'm sure the balances for the most trusted gateways will be worth about the same. Ripple is trying to federate the existing banking system. Nobody today ever says: " It sucks that my Bank of America USD is worth less than my Citibank USD".
Ripple is clearly a Bitcoin competitor. Saying it isn't does not change the fact that XRP is another currency, so by any definition it is a competitor. Saying it is not, is sneaky marketing crap.
I totally disagree with your quip about the sneakiness. XRP is not Bitcoin, they are different. They will compete in some ways, and help each other in other ways.
Ripple is going to make profit by liquidating the XRP they "printed". In effect, if they are pre-printed or not does not matter as they are not in circulation, at this time. Very few XRP are released so Opencoin is in effect a central bank, regulating XRP. This is the whole point of XRP, printing money for Opencoin.
The point of XRP is to secure Ripple. OpenCoin created this technology, and they are now selling and giving it away. This does not make them a central bank. Anybody can use Ripple freely if it makes their life more convenient, and $1 worth of XRP will possibly pay a lifetime of transaction fees. I use Bitcoin all the time, and sometimes I trade Bitcoin balances, or move them around in Ripple because it is convenient.
Ripple addresses are extremely easy to use to uncover users identity as you will not have many more than one.
If you wanted maximum anonimity why would you use only one address? It functions very similarly to Bitcoin in this regard.
In fact, all your credit lines are associated to a single address so it is impossibly impractical to use many addresses to get more privacy.
It's true that it's more convenient to stick to a smaller number of addresses. But you can set trust lines for any number of accounts very easily, and you only need 1 trust line to trade Bitcoin or fiat in Ripple.
Also, David Schwartz is an old NSA guy. I would never trust anyone who worked there except for Mr. Snowden. Opencoin is funded by VCs and they would likely see their scheme get good traction help by NSA or DHS while bitcoins get outlawed. Opencoins Ripple would actually be The Perfect Surveillance Tool via the public ledger.
The fact that Katz worked with the NSA at some point in his career reinforces my confidence in him. He must really know what he's doing. Anyways, there are bunch of developers working on Ripple everyday. Anyone who doesn't trust them can just wait until it's open sourced.

To conclude, XRP is superfluous for a ripple like scheme, you could as well use some recognized USD credits, or why not Bitcoin credits, as fees. Also, a public ledger is not ok when you have few-to-one address -> user. The database has to be distributed amoung the creditors and debtors. It should not be global. I really think the bitcoin community could design a better ripple scheme like this, using the some consensus validation which I think is a good design.
The Bitcoin community did design Ripple, more or less. Maybe in the future a better similar system will exist? I don't doubt it, tech is always moving forward.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1007

Bitcoin works on Consensus too, in case people haven't noticed.

The real question is about how to find consensus. How do you measure one vote if you have no central authority to determine real life identities?

There are only three known methods known yet:

* CPU cycles vote (proof of work)
* Existing coins vote (proof of stake)
* A web of trust

Ripple basically uses a web of trust. Server nodes will be somewhat invite-only. Also I can imagine there's a reason why creating more than one account is discouraged (as they cost XRPs), and there effectively may be some proof of stake thrown in here and there which may be another reason why these XRPs exist.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
I'm staying far, far away from it and encourage others as well.   

Have a bitstamp account?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
Ripple is and will be around, deal with it.
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