Ripple starts to conquer the world from China - page 5.

DeathAndTaxes

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Quote from: yvv on September 07, 2013, 10:49:30 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:29:31 AM

Quote from: yvv on September 07, 2013, 10:19:50 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 09:20:16 AM

Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

By the way, how do you plan to revoke sources from 100 of groups which have them now?

Simple. Release a new version which drops connections from servers older than prior version. Revoke access to the proprietary closed source binary to those you no longer want to run the server.

You are talking crap here. It is essential for ripple network to have many servers running by different groups. Whatever OpenCoin does, this will not stop those who have server codes continue running their servers. Even if OpenCoin disappear immediately after ripple release, the network will continue to run until somebody is running servers.

It isn't essential for OpenCoin that ANYONE but OpenCoin (or approved lackeys) run servers. It may be essential to your goals but OpenCoin has indicated that the network will work fine with just a handful of servers. With decent hardware a handful (or one) server could handle tens of thousands of transactions a second without breaking a sweat.

If OpenCoin (and the source code dispaeared) tomorrow you really think the Ripple network could survive? What someone is going to reverse engineer the server software? At best that would be an incompatible hard fork. The existing network operates solely at the will of OpenCoin. Period.

yvv

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:29:31 AM

Quote from: yvv on September 07, 2013, 10:19:50 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 09:20:16 AM

Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

By the way, how do you plan to revoke sources from 100 of groups which have them now?

Simple. Release a new version which drops connections from servers older than prior version. Revoke access to the proprietary closed source binary to those you no longer want to run the server.

You are talking crap here. It is essential for ripple network to have many servers running by different groups. Whatever OpenCoin does, this will not stop those who have server codes continue running their servers. Even if OpenCoin disappear immediately after ripple release, the network will continue to run until somebody is running servers.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: AmazonStuff on September 07, 2013, 10:40:40 AM

I agree, beta doesn't magically make it open source, but you must agree that it doesn't make it closed-source neither, that is something that is determined when software is officially released.

Of course I don't. It is closed source until it is released under open source license. By your "logic" if they NEVER release the source code then it can never be closed source. Hmm? Huh

Yeah that makes sense.

Source code =/= open source.

Open Source is an open license. It can't be undone. If Satoshi showed up tomorrow and said "nope I want Bitcoin to be closed source in the future" he would have no legal authority to do so. The MIT license grants others the right to modify and distribute the code. Open Source is about free software (free speech not free beer). Until it is licensed as open source you are just hoping they will do so in the future. If they don't? Well that sucks but you have no legal authority to modify or distribute the code. Open Source can't be "reversed" and that makes it incredibly powerful.

Ripple Server is closed source until it isn't. Maybe it will be open sourced in the future but .... maybe it won't. That is the whole point.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: yvv on September 07, 2013, 10:38:08 AM

If it will not be released within several month, no matter closed or open source, it will die.

It won't be released ... certainly not in the next couple months. OpenCoin is already distancing itself from Joel comments about wanting (not promising) the source code to be released by the end of the year. It won't die because it was always intended to be bait and switch. Just like you are trying to tell me night is day (closed source binary isn't closed source) in a couple months you (and others) will be even more invested and have a dozen excuses/rationals on why the code can't be released yet.

AmazonStuff

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:33:44 AM

Quote from: AmazonStuff on September 07, 2013, 10:24:36 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:21:28 AM

It has been "released" the network was in use. If it was an internal closed testnet that would be one thing but the network has been released to the public.

Have you ever heard of open-beta?

Beta doesn't magically make it open-source. Bitcoin is considered an open-beta and the source code is available. Imagine that.

Microsoft Windows 8.1 Preview (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/preview)
Closed Source, Beta

Bitcoin
Open Source, Beta

Ripple
Closed Source, Beta

I agree, beta doesn't magically make it open source, but you must agree that it doesn't make it closed-source neither, that is something that is determined when software is officially released.

yvv

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:21:28 AM

the network has been released to the public

It clearly states "beta" on ripple web page.

Quote

By the Open Source Initiative (http://opensource.org/), the Ripple server is not open source.

Not closed source either.

Quote

Say 10 years have passed and the source code hasn't been made available "yet".

If it will not be released within several month, no matter closed or open source, it will die.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: AmazonStuff on September 07, 2013, 10:24:36 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:21:28 AM

It has been "released" the network was in use. If it was an internal closed testnet that would be one thing but the network has been released to the public.

Have you ever heard of open-beta?

Beta doesn't magically make it open source. Bitcoin is considered an open-beta and the source code is available. Imagine that.

Microsoft Windows 8.1 Preview (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/preview)
Closed Source, Beta

Bitcoin
Open Source, Beta

Ripple
Closed Source, Beta

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: yvv on September 07, 2013, 10:19:50 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 09:20:16 AM

Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

By the way, how do you plan to revoke sources from 100 of groups which have them now?

Simple. Release a new version which drops connections from servers older than prior version. Revoke access to the proprietary closed source binary to those you no longer want to run the server.

AmazonStuff

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:21:28 AM

It has been "released" the network was in use. If it was an internal closed testnet that would be one thing but the network has been released to the public.

Have you ever heard of open-beta?

AmazonStuff

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Quote from: STT on September 07, 2013, 10:16:43 AM

How is ripple secure if nobody is mining/hashing it

Ripple is completely secure, here's more visual example, how Ripple Consensus works:
http://vimeo.com/64405422

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: yvv on September 07, 2013, 10:10:07 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:00:51 AM

IT IS CLOSED SOURCE.

Show me the LICENSE?

Quote

That is the DEFINITION of closed source.

You have WRONG DEFINITION. Terms of use of any software are specified in software license upon the release. Ripple server WAS NOT RELEASED YET. Neither under opened nor under closed license. PERIOD.

YOU UNDERSTAND?

P.S. Does it make it more clear for you if I use a lot of capital letters and bold text?

That is a dubious distinction. It has been "released" the network is in use. If it was an internal closed testnet only by companies employees that would be one thing but the network has been released to the public. Real transactions are occuring everyday and they are occuring on proprietary transaction servers running closed source code.

Lets take your logic to the extreme. Say 10 years have passed and the source code hasn't been made available "yet". Is it still an "open source project"? Yes or no. If yes how about 5 years? 3 years? 1 year?

Open Source is open source. If the binaries are not released under an open license and the source code made available then it isn't open source. Period. By the Open Source Initiative (http://opensource.org/), the Ripple server is not open source. Hell by the definition of anyone other than a fanboy the Ripple Server is NOT open source. Even Ripple (and supporters) don't claim the server is open source ... BECAUSE IT ISN'T. The mere promise/claim of future open source doesn't make something open source.

yvv

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Quote from: STT on September 07, 2013, 10:16:43 AM

How is ripple secure if nobody is mining/hashing it

https://ripple.com/wiki/Consensus

yvv

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 09:20:16 AM

Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

By the way, how do you plan to revoke sources from 100 of groups which have them now?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: STT on September 07, 2013, 10:16:43 AM

How is ripple secure if nobody is mining/hashing it

That same way PayPal is secure; OpenCoin acts as a central authority. They maintain "the books". Mining is only necessary to achieve consensus among untrusted peers.
On PayPal if their servers say you have $100 then you have $100 and if they say you don't then you don't. Ripple is no different.

STT

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How is ripple secure if nobody is mining/hashing it

yvv

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 10:00:51 AM

IT IS CLOSED SOURCE.

Show me the LICENSE?

Quote

That is the DEFINITION of closed source.

You have WRONG DEFINITION. Terms of use of any software are specified in software license upon the release. Ripple server WAS NOT RELEASED YET. Neither under opened nor under closed license. PERIOD.

YOU UNDERSTAND?

P.S. Does it make it more clear for you if I use a lot of capital letters and bold text?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: yvv on September 07, 2013, 09:55:36 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 09:20:16 AM

Yet you admit in the next post that the transaction server IS closed source and only available to approved lackeys of OpenCoin. Replaced "owned" with "approved". Nobody runs the closed source binaries with OpenCoins experess permission. Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

Closed source and absolute central control of the network. Ripple is PayPal 2.0.

It is not closed sourced, it is not released yet. Neither sources no binaries are available to public. Currently, it is a very unstable piece of software which is not ready for release. When it will be released, no permission will be necessary to use it. Ripple has nothing in common with PayPal. Ripple aims to be a distributed currency exchange.

IT IS CLOSED SOURCE. That is the DEFINITION of closed source. It is a centrally controlled proprietary network. The fact that the company has made some vague promises to release the code to the public at some unknown future date doesn't make it open source. If Microsoft promised they would make the source code of some future version of Windows on some future unnamed date would that make Windows "open source" today? Of course not.

Servers run closed source binaries only with limited and revocable permission of the central authority (OpenCoin). The only transactions servers that exist are the ones that OpenCoin has allowed to operate (and can revoke at any point in the future).
What exactly would you call that other than closed source and centrally controlled proprietary network? The fact that it may (or may not) change in the future doesn't negate the reality today.

yvv

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 07, 2013, 09:20:16 AM

Yet you admit in the next post that the transaction server IS closed source and only available to approved lackeys of OpenCoin. Replaced "owned" with "approved". Nobody runs the closed source binaries with OpenCoins experess permission. Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

Closed source and absolute central control of the network. Ripple is PayPal 2.0.

It is not closed sourced, it is not released yet. Neither sources no binaries are available to public. Currently, it is a very unstable piece of software which is not ready for release. When it will be released, no permission will be necessary to use it. Ripple has nothing in common with PayPal. Ripple aims to be a distributed currency exchange.

DeathAndTaxes

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Quote from: yvv on September 07, 2013, 08:27:15 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 06, 2013, 08:43:08 PM

Quote from: nameface on September 06, 2013, 07:59:52 PM

If the distribution of XRP and the conduct of OpenCoin is a problem, at least the world will have their technology.

No they won't the transaction server is closed source and only runs on OpenCoin owned hardware.

Both statements are false.

Yet you admit in the next post that the transaction server IS closed source and only available to approved lackeys of OpenCoin. Replaced "owned" with "approved". Nobody runs the closed source binaries with OpenCoins experess permission. Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

Closed source and absolute central control of the network. Ripple is PayPal 2.0.

yvv

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on September 06, 2013, 08:58:04 PM

Provide a link to the download.

There is no link to download, neither sources nor binaries. The server was not released to public yet. Only limited number of testers (~100) have currently access to rippled. It will be released to public when it will be stable enough. It is a normal way of software development.

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