Topic: Ripple vs Bitcoin - page 10. (Read 13381 times)

To be fair, you guys are asking me all the time about "theoretically possible", "at all possible" etc. - there are a lot of things "theoretically possible" in Bitcoin too.

Like what? That there can be more than 21 million bitcoins without a protocol change?

There has been already a protocol change in Bitcoin to prevent that a few years ago (there was a bug that could issue more BTC than what was intended).

That's my point, that to change the 21 million cap on BTC requires a protocol change.

Next time please quote me completely, you missed this part:

(e.g. "there will be 21 million BTC" is provably wrong - there will be for sure less than that because some miners did non issue themselves all 50 BTC in coinbase in the past)

I said there will be LESS than 21 million BTC, not more.

I personally didn't miss that part. I thought it was obvious having LESS than a capped amount is more beneficial to all holders of the commodity in question. It's having MORE than a perceived capped amount that results in the problem (which is the problem I have with Ripple).

When were the dollar bills in your wallet printed?

Well, you've got me there. If you want to put Ripple on par with non-transparent Central Bank fiat currency I'll concede that.

Who originally mined all the inputs in your Bitcoin wallet?

It doesn't matter. Stop pretending it does. ALL of the records needed to check all of the bitcoins in existence are available now.

Quote from: Sukrim on April 05, 2014, 01:07:55 PM

I mean, of course it is important to know where stuff comes from, we're talking about ~10 days and a few hundred transactions here though, not about how Ripple works since then.

Somehow I get the impression you already know this, but let me spell it out for anyone who doesn't: it only take one unaccounted for transaction to allow for trillions (or more) in unaccounted for currency units, because it's all only data.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: cbeast on April 05, 2014, 01:04:40 PM

Quote from: Sukrim on April 05, 2014, 01:00:45 PM

Me too, that's why I like Ripple, since it is not centralized.

Cool. Can I use Ripple without trusting any Gateways?

Sure.

Can I use it without going through Opencoin?

I guess you mean RippleLabs... yes, the client code is just hosted on ripple.com for convenience, you can run your own rippled to connect to and set up a webserver with the client locally too (it's what I do for example), I linked the repositories before. I'd recommend to use the tagged release versions and not bleeding edge code as it is under active development.

So if I set up a centralized webserver as you suggest, the trades will be distributed with the Ripple Labs hosted transactions?

Pente

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It seems to me that the market cap of Ripple totally exceeds it's volume:

http://coinmarketcap.com/

Capitalization = $ 815,887,553
Volume = $ 68,099
Ratio = 11980

I have brought this issue up and most people just tell me that I am just stupid or uneducated. Whatever. Roll Eyes

But this brings up my #1 rule for investing. Never invest in something I don't understand. I need to understood both the concept & how it fits into the big picture. I feel I understand Ripple, I just can't see it becoming mainstream. And if it did, I can't see how it's value wouldn't be diluted.

Bitcoin has a ratio around 476
Litecoin is just under 100
Dogecoin is around 68

Blackcoin & Zetacoin are running around a 10 and even they have a bigger volume than Ripple. I would trust them long before I would trust Ripple.

My crypto investments are 95% Bitcoin & 5% Dogecoin. I trust Bitcoin because of the huge decentralized network behind it's elegant algorithm. I trust Dogecoin because of it's adoption of a fast confirm time, tiny costs of each unit, the huge community backing it, and the fact that it's inflation rate from mining will drop to about 5% each year at the end of 2014.

I don't trust Ripple.

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www.ripplescam.org

grifferz

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Quote from: grifferz on April 05, 2014, 11:46:18 AM

Quote from: cbeast on April 05, 2014, 01:04:40 PM

It would be very unexpected to see that more than 100 billion XRP existed prior to #32570. With current transaction types etc. it is impossible in Ripple to issue more XRP, so the amount in #32570 is the maximum we know about

Is it at all possible that a transaction type existed before #32570 that could have allowed more XRP to be created, and then that transaction type was removed prior to ledger #32570 being published?

To be fair, you guys are asking me all the time about "theoretically possible", "at all possible" etc. - there are a lot of things "theoretically possible" in Bitcoin too. Yes, it is theoretically possible that this happened (though I cannot think of any reason why it should have and also have not found any evidence for that in any way).

To be fair I, as someone wanting to know more about Ripple, am just asking you simple direct questions in order to never have to go through the back and forth argument I have seen you and acoindr engage in several times on this subject, and your huffy attitude at being asked them just makes me less interested in spending my time in future.

Sukrim

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Quote from: Sukrim on April 05, 2014, 01:00:45 PM

Quote from: Sukrim on April 05, 2014, 01:00:45 PM

Me too, that's why I like Ripple, since it is not centralized.

Cool. Can I use Ripple without trusting any Gateways?

Sure.

Can I use it without going through Opencoin?

I guess you mean RippleLabs... yes, the client code is just hosted on ripple.com for convenience, you can run your own rippled to connect to and set up a webserver with the client locally too (it's what I do for example), I linked the repositories before. I'd recommend to use the tagged release versions and not bleeding edge code as it is under active development.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Me too, that's why I like Ripple, since it is not centralized.

Cool. Can I use Ripple without trusting any Gateways?

Sure.

Can I use it without going through Opencoin?

Sukrim

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Me too, that's why I like Ripple, since it is not centralized.

Cool. Can I use Ripple without trusting any Gateways?

Sure.

cbeast

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Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Me too, that's why I like Ripple, since it is not centralized.

Cool. Can I use Ripple without trusting any Gateways?

Sukrim

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Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

To be fair, you guys are asking me all the time about "theoretically possible", "at all possible" etc. - there are a lot of things "theoretically possible" in Bitcoin too.

Like what? That there can be more than 21 million bitcoins without a protocol change?

There has been already a protocol change in Bitcoin to prevent that a few years ago (there was a bug that could issue more BTC than what was intended).

I hate speaking in absolutes when they are not justified (e.g. "there will be 21 million BTC" is provably wrong ...

You're suggesting the common statement there will never be more than 21 million BTC is not justified, and is provably wrong?

I think you just destroyed your credibility. (it's not there will be exactly 21 million BTC, it's there will never be more than 21 million)

Next time please quote me completely, you missed this part:

(e.g. "there will be 21 million BTC" is provably wrong - there will be for sure less than that because some miners did non issue themselves all 50 BTC in coinbase in the past)

I said there will be LESS than 21 million BTC, not more.

Quote from: cbeast on April 05, 2014, 12:44:15 PM

The older ledgers were lost because of a software bug by the way, not because of a conspiracy. There is a slow ongoing effort to still recover/reconstruct these old ledgers, so this might very well be just a temporary issue.

So the most important property in dealing with money, namely transparency of supply, experienced a software bug for Ripple?

When were the dollar bills in your wallet printed? Who originally mined all the inputs in your Bitcoin wallet? I mean, of course it is important to know where stuff comes from, we're talking about ~10 days and a few hundred transactions here though, not about how Ripple works since then.

Centralized platforms remind me of Liberty Reserve.

Me too, that's why I like Ripple, since it is not centralized.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Sukrim on April 05, 2014, 12:06:47 PM

Quote from: cbeast on April 05, 2014, 12:01:07 PM

Shouldn't this be Ripple vs Ethereum? Ethereum has a stronger development team and wider scope than Ripple. Bitcoin isn't even designed to do the same thing.

This assessment is based on what exactly?

Anyways, I agree: Ethereum, eMunie, NXT, Mastercoin, Colored Coins etc. are the things you should compare to Ripple, Bitcoin is just something that is very well designed to be traded on these platforms.

Centralized platforms remind me of Liberty Reserve.

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Quote from: acoindr on April 05, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

Sukrim, thank you for your apparently honest answers. I would ask people to replace "Ripple" with "Bitcoin" to see how shaky IMO it sounds:

Quote from: grifferz on April 05, 2014, 11:46:18 AM

It would be very unexpected to see that more than 100 billion XRP existed prior to #32570. With current transaction types etc. it is impossible in Ripple to issue more XRP, so the amount in #32570 is the maximum we know about

Is it at all possible that a transaction type existed before #32570 that could have allowed more XRP to be created, and then that transaction type was removed prior to ledger #32570 being published?

To be fair, you guys are asking me all the time about "theoretically possible", "at all possible" etc. - there are a lot of things "theoretically possible" in Bitcoin too.

Like what? That there can be more than 21 million bitcoins without a protocol change?

I hate speaking in absolutes when they are not justified (e.g. "there will be 21 million BTC" is provably wrong ...

You're suggesting the common statement there will never be more than 21 million BTC is not justified, and is provably wrong?

I think you just destroyed your credibility. (it's not there will be exactly 21 million BTC, it's there will never be more than 21 million)

Quote from: cbeast on April 05, 2014, 12:01:07 PM

The older ledgers were lost because of a software bug by the way, not because of a conspiracy. There is a slow ongoing effort to still recover/reconstruct these old ledgers, so this might very well be just a temporary issue.

So the most important property in dealing with money, namely transparency of supply, experienced a software bug for Ripple?

Walsoraj

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Ultranode

Shouldn't this be Ripple vs Ethereum? Ethereum has a stronger development team and wider scope than Ripple. Bitcoin isn't even designed to do the same thing.

Stronger development team? Please elaborate.

Sukrim

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Quote from: cbeast on April 05, 2014, 12:01:07 PM

Shouldn't this be Ripple vs Ethereum? Ethereum has a stronger development team and wider scope than Ripple. Bitcoin isn't even designed to do the same thing.

This assessment is based on what exactly?

Anyways, I agree: Ethereum, eMunie, NXT, Mastercoin, Colored Coins etc. are the things you should compare to Ripple, Bitcoin is just something that is very well designed to be traded on these platforms.

cbeast

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Activity: 1736

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Shouldn't this be Ripple vs Ethereum? Ethereum has a stronger development team and wider scope than Ripple. Bitcoin isn't even designed to do the same thing.

Sukrim

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Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quote from: acoindr on April 05, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

Sukrim, thank you for your apparently honest answers. I would ask people to replace "Ripple" with "Bitcoin" to see how shaky IMO it sounds:

Quote from: grifferz on April 05, 2014, 11:46:18 AM

It would be very unexpected to see that more than 100 billion XRP existed prior to #32570. With current transaction types etc. it is impossible in Ripple to issue more XRP, so the amount in #32570 is the maximum we know about

Is it at all possible that a transaction type existed before #32570 that could have allowed more XRP to be created, and then that transaction type was removed prior to ledger #32570 being published?

To be fair, you guys are asking me all the time about "theoretically possible", "at all possible" etc. - there are a lot of things "theoretically possible" in Bitcoin too. Yes, it is theoretically possible that this happened (though I cannot think of any reason why it should have and also have not found any evidence for that in any way).

I hate speaking in absolutes when they are not justified (e.g. "there will be 21 million BTC" is provably wrong - there will be for sure less than that because some miners did non issue themselves all 50 BTC in coinbase in the past) so it might sound more sketchy than needed if I were a bit more bold with wording (then I seem to attract trolls again who claim I lie or try to make Ripple look like something it isn't).

The older ledgers were lost because of a software bug by the way, not because of a conspiracy. There is a slow ongoing effort to still recover/reconstruct these old ledgers, so this might very well be just a temporary issue.

grifferz

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Quote from: softron on April 05, 2014, 11:39:29 AM

It would be very unexpected to see that more than 100 billion XRP existed prior to #32570. With current transaction types etc. it is impossible in Ripple to issue more XRP, so the amount in #32570 is the maximum we know about

Is it at all possible that a transaction type existed before #32570 that could have allowed more XRP to be created, and then that transaction type was removed prior to ledger #32570 being published?

grifferz

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Where can i sell ripple for fiat

Looks like you can sell ripples for EUR on Kraken. I haven't, but it seems the functionality and order book is there.

acoindr

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Sukrim, thank you for your apparently honest answers. I would ask people to replace "Ripple" with "Bitcoin" to see how shaky IMO it sounds:

It would be very unexpected to see that more than 100 billion XRP existed prior ....

With current transaction types etc. it is impossible in Ripple to issue more XRP, so the amount in #32570 is the maximum we know about ...