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Topic: Ripple vs Bitcoin - page 7. (Read 13331 times)

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
April 06, 2014, 10:19:49 PM
so far, NO ONE can explain even one benefit of Ripple.  is this a joke?

Congratulations! Embrace your new title. You have been marked as a retard.



Ooh a meme, so clever.  I guess you are scared to make an assertion about the value of ripple
because there is none.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
April 06, 2014, 10:16:05 PM
I see Ripple also tried their own quasi-mining attempt with the Computing for Good project.  But like everything else they do, it fails before it even gets off the ground.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
April 06, 2014, 10:14:55 PM
Call it "escrowed funds" then?

"Bank note" or "balance" might also be correct terms, in the end it is not strictly defined by the network though what your RippleState entries (the internal name for trust lines) reflect - they can be debt, money, time, goods...

All Bitcoin exchanges (even localbitcoins with their escrow system) use strictly IOUs, not "real" Bitcoins by the way.

It's been a long time since I've even looked at Ripple so forgive me if things have changed but one of the big issues to me is that all of the IOUs are treated similarly.  TradeFortress proved this a while back, has this been addressed?  Essentially people lost their Bitstamp IOUs for the bogus TF IOUs.  So long as you trust both parties, the IOUs are interchangeable.  It just seems like another way for people to get scammed.

If a completely anonymous stranger wanted to borrow 1 BTC from you, would you trust him?

Nope.  But if a completely anonymous stranger wanted to give me 1 BTC, I'd gladly let him.  That's the problem to me, TF was giving away IOUs, which shouldn't be able to come back and hurt the holder of said IOU.  But they were hurt due to the interchangeability between IOUs. 

If someone gives you an IOU and fails to pay, that's the counterparty risk.  But to intermingle IOUs between multiple issuers makes everything opaque and near impossible to assess risk.
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1040
A Great Time to Start Something!
April 06, 2014, 10:05:43 PM
Call it "escrowed funds" then?

"Bank note" or "balance" might also be correct terms, in the end it is not strictly defined by the network though what your RippleState entries (the internal name for trust lines) reflect - they can be debt, money, time, goods...

All Bitcoin exchanges (even localbitcoins with their escrow system) use strictly IOUs, not "real" Bitcoins by the way.

It's been a long time since I've even looked at Ripple so forgive me if things have changed but one of the big issues to me is that all of the IOUs are treated similarly.  TradeFortress proved this a while back, has this been addressed?  Essentially people lost their Bitstamp IOUs for the bogus TF IOUs.  So long as you trust both parties, the IOUs are interchangeable.  It just seems like another way for people to get scammed.

If a completely anonymous stranger wanted to borrow 1 BTC from you, would you trust him?

With enough collateral, yes.
ps. Do you think your comment answered his point?
NWO
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
April 06, 2014, 10:00:29 PM
Call it "escrowed funds" then?

"Bank note" or "balance" might also be correct terms, in the end it is not strictly defined by the network though what your RippleState entries (the internal name for trust lines) reflect - they can be debt, money, time, goods...

All Bitcoin exchanges (even localbitcoins with their escrow system) use strictly IOUs, not "real" Bitcoins by the way.

It's been a long time since I've even looked at Ripple so forgive me if things have changed but one of the big issues to me is that all of the IOUs are treated similarly.  TradeFortress proved this a while back, has this been addressed?  Essentially people lost their Bitstamp IOUs for the bogus TF IOUs.  So long as you trust both parties, the IOUs are interchangeable.  It just seems like another way for people to get scammed.

If a completely anonymous stranger wanted to borrow 1 BTC from you, would you trust him?
NWO
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
April 06, 2014, 09:59:02 PM
so far, NO ONE can explain even one benefit of Ripple.  is this a joke?

Congratulations! Embrace your new title. You have been marked as a retard.

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1004
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
April 06, 2014, 09:55:49 PM
so far, NO ONE can explain even one benefit of Ripple.  is this a joke?
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
April 06, 2014, 08:51:23 PM
Exactly, part of the strength of bitcoin is fungibility. So long as gateways are limited to banks then we would expect to see fungibility of dollar IOUs unless there is a potential run on the bank, but the dream of anyone becoming a gateway isn't feasible because the trust level of each gateway is not the same

Apart from the fact that you are making the category error of comparing rippling to bitcoin, it isn't even true that the ideal is that IOUs issued by different users should be fungible. The trust system exists precisely because they fundamentally cannot be fungible any more than bonds issued by corporation X and bonds issued by corporation Y are fungible. Ripple distinguishes between issuers precisely because the counterparty risk isn't identical. In addition, counterparty risk is a function of both the issuer and the holder, a function of their real world relationship. People are much more likely to default on obligations to anonymous strangers than on those to close associates.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
April 06, 2014, 08:43:02 PM
the fundamental question of how does a halawa network work on a global scale. If it does ripple or a competitor will succeed, but I don't think it does

Ripple is the combination of a cryptocurrency (XRP) + a digital hawala system (rippling) + a distributed exchange. It makes no sense to compare rippling to BTC, the right comparison is XRP to BTC and rippling + exchange to Bitcoin exchanges. And it so happens that the largest exchange, Bitstamp, also is a Ripple gateway, so the two systems are intertwined already.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
April 06, 2014, 08:39:33 PM
Essentially people lost their Bitstamp IOUs for the bogus TF IOUs.  So long as you trust both parties, the IOUs are interchangeable.  It just seems like another way for people to get scammed.

That's exactly what the trust relation is for. Do not tell Ripple to trust people that you don't actually trust. Similarly, don't store money at exchanges you don't trust. The only difference is that Ripple explictly talks about trust and IOUs, while exchanges typically pretend their IOUs are real dollars. There is exactly the same kind of counterparty risk as with Ripple. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
sr. member
Activity: 787
Merit: 250
April 06, 2014, 08:38:38 PM
Just to make it clear, I am not pro BTC or XRP. I am liquid and pro profit. I am ideologically inclined towards bitcoin still want to maximize profit, I think that bitcoiners are attacking irrelevant issues with ripple (premine, technology) rather than the fundamental question of how does a halawa network work on a global scale. If it does ripple or a competitor will succeed, but I don't think it does
sr. member
Activity: 787
Merit: 250
April 06, 2014, 08:34:40 PM
Call it "escrowed funds" then?

"Bank note" or "balance" might also be correct terms, in the end it is not strictly defined by the network though what your RippleState entries (the internal name for trust lines) reflect - they can be debt, money, time, goods...

All Bitcoin exchanges (even localbitcoins with their escrow system) use strictly IOUs, not "real" Bitcoins by the way.

It's been a long time since I've even looked at Ripple so forgive me if things have changed but one of the big issues to me is that all of the IOUs are treated similarly.  TradeFortress proved this a while back, has this been addressed?  Essentially people lost their Bitstamp IOUs for the bogus TF IOUs.  So long as you trust both parties, the IOUs are interchangeable.  It just seems like another way for people to get scammed.

Exactly, part of the strength of bitcoin is fungibility. So long as gateways are limited to banks then we would expect to see fungibility of dollar IOUs unless there is a potential run on the bank, but the dream of anyone becoming a gateway isn't feasible because the trust level of each gateway is not the same
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
April 06, 2014, 08:19:07 PM
Call it "escrowed funds" then?

"Bank note" or "balance" might also be correct terms, in the end it is not strictly defined by the network though what your RippleState entries (the internal name for trust lines) reflect - they can be debt, money, time, goods...

All Bitcoin exchanges (even localbitcoins with their escrow system) use strictly IOUs, not "real" Bitcoins by the way.

It's been a long time since I've even looked at Ripple so forgive me if things have changed but one of the big issues to me is that all of the IOUs are treated similarly.  TradeFortress proved this a while back, has this been addressed?  Essentially people lost their Bitstamp IOUs for the bogus TF IOUs.  So long as you trust both parties, the IOUs are interchangeable.  It just seems like another way for people to get scammed.
NWO
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
April 06, 2014, 07:48:49 PM
I've done a little more reading about Opencoin/Ripple Labs version of Rippled. I no longer see it as a threat to Bitcoin. It is a fundamentally different approach to payments than Bitcoin. I laud the tenacity of the marketroids selling the system (which requires buying XRP), but I will reserve final judgement on it until there is further development and forks to compare it to.

Exactly.

Although it only costs a few dollars and you will probably never have to buy XRP again (transactions fees are tiny). It is cheaper than others systems (bitcoin, paypal, banks etc), so it isn't too much of an issue.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
April 06, 2014, 07:45:00 PM
#99
You'd better squeeze all the Charmin you can,
When Mr. Ripple's not around.
Put your head in the microwave and get yourself a tan...

i know at least someone will get this
sr. member
Activity: 787
Merit: 250
April 06, 2014, 07:40:39 PM
#98
Every time I read bitcoiners trying to understand Ripple.



Why are you all so dumb!? Stick with your simple archaic system if that is all you can wrap your mind around.

Sick of seeing these debates.

Yes, insulting people is a great way to support your view?

Every time I read bitcoiners trying to understand Ripple..
Ripple is not suitable for mainstream users (BTC is not yet either)

  • BTC has over 20 to 50+ companies with VC$$$ all trying to make BTC ready for prime time.
  • How many companies are actively working to improve Ripple?
  • What are the chances Ripple will ever be ready for "the dumb people" to use?



Because I don't care if bitcoiners don't understand Ripple. The amount of threads that I have read with Sukrim clearly rebutting or informing bitcoiners about Ripple is ridiculous. The worst part is, those same people are still like...



From the top of my head there is peercover, ritazachari (jewelry), bitstamp, zip zap, ripplesingapore (gold/ silver) and with crosscoinventures I'm sure there are many more in the pipeline. Theoretically, anyone who accepts BTC accepts XRP due to the Bitcoin bridge (but you probably don't know what that is either). How many companies were involved with Bitcoin after a year? Oh that's right, it was still being premined/ instamined (there's some bitcoiner lingo which is actually relevant!) by Satoshi and his small group of followers.

I'm assuming this is what the OP is talking about http://www.coindesk.com/ripple-courts-developers-entrepreneurs-new-initiatives/

Merchant adoption of ripple is an irrelevant point IMHO. If a merchant were to accept XRP for G&S, MAYBE, it would be relevant. But Ripple does not aim for merchants to accept it, as these merchants are not interested in running a hawala network, Ripple needs to get the banks to do it so they can get rid
of visa and MasterCard. Ripple aims to be paypal, you can't say that paypal competes with dollar vs yuan adoption...
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
April 06, 2014, 07:40:00 PM
#97
XRP and bitcoins compete. Ripple and Bitcoin require a more elaborate analysis to substantiate that claim

Yes, but Ripple is much more than XRP, it also includes the IOU rippling mechanism and a distributed exchange. And these aren't just any two merely nice additions, they deal directly with Bitcoin's major weakness, its interface with the fiat world. That won't matter eventually in an all-crypto world, but we have to get there first, and that's where Ripple or something like it can help. If Ripple didn't have these additional parts, it would be much less interesting.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1006
April 06, 2014, 07:32:40 PM
#96
Maybe because ripple is using the concept of IOU

IOU is a typical way to confuse people and let them fall for the scheme, banks are very good at it. A financially strong person don't need to borrow money, nor lending money, so the concept of IOU only attract those financially weak person. Only banks need IOU, since that will cover the fact that they print money for themselves or they lend customer funds to someone else

When you see the word IOU, you can sense that some scheme is going on here Wink

Call it "escrowed funds" then?

"Bank note" or "balance" might also be correct terms, in the end it is not strictly defined by the network though what your RippleState entries (the internal name for trust lines) reflect - they can be debt, money, time, goods...

All Bitcoin exchanges (even localbitcoins with their escrow system) use strictly IOUs, not "real" Bitcoins by the way.

Fortunately we can have both. It is not a zero-sum game: one person taking ripple seriously does not imply one fewer person taking bitcoin seriously.
Yes it does - Ripple and Bitcoin are in direct competition: every dollar spent on the one cannot be spent on the other.
You need to spend less than one single dollar buying XRP for a few million transactions + reserves, after that you can spend all other dollars for BTC, dogecoin or whatever else you want to buy on Ripple. It's an exchange mostly with an "altcoin" attached to it for denominating fees, not the other way around.
sr. member
Activity: 787
Merit: 250
April 06, 2014, 07:31:59 PM
#95
XRP and bitcoins compete. Ripple and Bitcoin require a more elaborate analysis to substantiate that claim
full member
Activity: 557
Merit: 101
April 06, 2014, 07:23:14 PM
#94
Fortunately we can have both. It is not a zero-sum game: one person taking ripple seriously does not imply one fewer person taking bitcoin seriously.

Yes it does - Ripple and Bitcoin are in direct competition: every dollar spent on the one cannot be spent on the other.

http://themisescircle.org/blog/2014/03/14/the-coming-demise-of-the-altcoins/
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