rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 46.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 02:06:16 PM

The side effect of this is he can learn about supply, inflation and other stuff.

You don't know marketing. Never do you market to the highest hanging fruit first where you have teach them.

And you surely don't have enough time, even if you did have the $trillion budget for it.

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 02:25:57 PM

Well, I am talking about decentralized crypto 2.0 technologies.
You're posting about some digital fiat by Ecuador and other developing nations.
Other than that, we seem to agree that Bitcoin won't last too long.

After all I wrote you still don't see the interconnection.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 02:23:04 PM

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 02:19:21 PM

...Bitcoins work as seed capital to develop those crypto 2.0...

And that is what I am posting about.

Well, I am talking about decentralized crypto 2.0 technologies.
You're posting about some digital fiat by Ecuador and other developing nations.
Other than that, we seem to agree that Bitcoin won't last too long.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 02:19:21 PM

...Bitcoins work as seed capital to develop those crypto 2.0...

And that is what I am posting about.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

To make my point more clear. I don't think Bitcoin can be a store of value longer than the next 5 years, probably even less than that. This will be a transition period to crypto 2.0 technologies, where Bitcoins work as seed capital to develop those crypto 2.0 technologies (IPOs to distribute stock, development costs, etc), decentralized companies and a full-fledged economy based on those. This stage already started last November. By the end of this transition stage Bitcoins will stop appreciating, because a) it will have used its full potential and being just a store of value and a money transfer mechanism would not be good enough; and b) yes, it will be fully centralized by then, with all the inconveniences that centralization causes.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: aminorex on September 04, 2014, 01:31:54 PM

You might do better to using timing to separate your rhetoric from your reason.

Of course you are correct, but I don't have time and these guys are pissing me for wasting my time. So I am trying to blow out this discussion because I need an excuse to leave. Otherwise I can't get any work done wasting my time on guys who call me a tinfoil hat and they have errors in their thought processes left and right.

Quote from: aminorex on September 04, 2014, 01:32:50 PM

Quote from: georgehosterguy on September 04, 2014, 01:16:40 PM

what's a jackbook?

New Apple laptop, I think.

Hahaha, and cashmere padded ~~walls~~security on the ~~jail~~garden too.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 01:25:13 PM

Crypto currencies function by no decree. They are decentrally produced.

Bitcoin is centrally produced for mining (Ghash.io + any other pool have > 50% of hashrate) and protocol development.

With the coming ETFs and other offchain entities, I posit it will soon by top-controlled for investment and transactions too.

Raise your hindquarters in the air for some Butthurt.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: Skinnkavaj on September 04, 2014, 01:18:50 PM

I see three categories right now as an altcoin investor:
PoS coins
Anonymous coins
2.0 coins

Would you categorize it further down?

Decentralized Transaction coins which might also be Anonymous and 2.0 but I hope not PileOfShit.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: Este Nuno on September 04, 2014, 02:01:39 PM

Do you think the average person really cares about such things, or is going to become educated on such matters in our lifetime?

The average person cares about price rise. When supply of a useful commodity is predictable and cannot be increased at a whim, the price tends to rise. That's when an average person takes a notice and wants to take part in the action. The side effect of this is he can learn about supply, inflation and other stuff.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:55:11 PM

Are you going to continue trolling?

I just explained that the issue of altcoin adoption in the developing world is threatened. And if an altcoin is going to compete it needs to be very proactive now on generating income for the developing world people, because they are not investors in crypto-currency. They are workers and earners of income.

This is a very relevant discussion about altcoin demographics.

You are just trolling.

Your category mistakes are becoming embarrassing as their frequency increses; stop calling disagreement "trolling."

Cyber-fiat, whether Canadian or Ecuadorian, is not an altcoin any more than commodity-backed MPESA credits.

Este Nuno

legendary

Activity: 826

Merit: 1002

amarha

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 01:49:11 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on September 04, 2014, 01:46:10 PM

Yes, full fledged digital fiat and decentralised cryptocurrencies are a separate animal. One question might be why the average person would want to use something like bitcoin when the government is offering them what they know already in a safer and more convenient form.

Because supply of crypto currencies is predictable and cannot be inflated at a whim and thus can be a store of value?

Do you think the average person really cares about such things, or is going to become educated on such matters in our lifetime?

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:58:02 PM

The developing world is not China any more dumbass. You are like 10 - 15 years behind the times.

You said 6 billion people. Who are they? So you agree then that Chinese can invest because they have a lot of savings and would like to diversify from Renminbi which their government likes to inflate too?

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:58:02 PM

China has already banned Bitcoin for use as a currency.

And you think 1.5 bln. people will just stand and watch in silence their savings in fiat fade away and at least some of those Chinese not try to do anything about it. You're being naive in thinking that if something's banned, nobody will use it. Among other things that can function as store of value they will use crypto currencies too, be sure of it. And it doesn't have to function as currency at merchant level, peer-to-peer level is good enough.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 01:55:18 PM

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:51:43 PM

You have a math error.

A higher percentage rate of 1/10 the income, doesn't mean they have more to invest. In fact, food is stilll 30% of their budget. And as always the savings is power-law distributed and most of the people in the developing world have very little savings because they can barely meet their basic consumption expenses (and they've gotten a taste of materialism and spend to join the lifestyle of westerners).

No I don't have an error. I'd bet an average Chinese has more to invest than an average American. This works on both personal and on a country level. Who is the largest debtor nation of the world? Who is the largest creditor nation of the world?

The developing world is not China any more dumbass. You are like 10 - 15 years behind the times.

China has already banned Bitcoin for use as a currency.

If crypto-currencies will be for investment only, they are useless.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:51:43 PM

You have a math error.

A higher percentage rate of 1/10 the income, doesn't mean they have more to invest. In fact, food is stilll 30% of their budget. And as always the savings is power-law distributed and most of the people in the developing world have very little savings because they can barely meet their basic consumption expenses (and they've gotten a taste of materialism and spend to join the lifestyle of westerners).

No I don't have an error. I'd bet an average Chinese has more to invest than an average American. This works on both personal and on a country level. Who is the largest debtor nation of the world? Who is the largest creditor nation of the world?

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: Skinnkavaj on September 04, 2014, 01:52:42 PM

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

Skinnkavaj,

Your only refutation is "no one will use the government coin".

I told you already that the people in the developing world for the most part don't have money to invest in coins. They are rather users of the coin to get paid. Thus they will use what ever they are told to use by the government and large crony corporations that run the developing world.

So if you can't even get your basic demographics correct, then you are not qualified to categorize my post as a conspiracy theory.

It seems you are not a person of factual analysis.

If you are going to get any traction with an altcoin in the developing world, you have to enable them to get paid with it. I have specific ideas for this, but I am not going to share them publicly at this time.

Equadors currency does not even fit the term "coin" as minted by the Bitcoin community. We are here to discuss coins, or crypto currencies, defined by that they are a decentralized ledger.

If you still want to discuss this AnonyMint, I suggest you start a new thread called "Centralized ledger observer".

Are you going to continue trolling?

I just explained that the issue of altcoin adoption in the developing world is threatened. And if an altcoin is going to compete it needs to be very proactive now on generating income for the developing world people, because they are not investors in crypto-currency. They are workers and earners of income.

This is a very relevant discussion about altcoin demographics.

You are just trolling.

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 01:49:11 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on September 04, 2014, 01:46:10 PM

Yes, full fledged digital fiat and decentralised cryptocurrencies are a separate animal. One question might be why the average person would want to use something like bitcoin when the government is offering them what they know already in a safer and more convenient form.

Because supply of crypto currencies is predictable and cannot be inflated at a whim and thus can be a store of value?

You have a demographic error.

The developing world people don't give a rats ass about central banking.

I live in the developing world. I ask them all the time. They don't even know what a central bank is you FOOL.

Skinnkavaj

sr. member

Activity: 469

Merit: 250

English Motherfucker do you speak it ?

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

Skinnkavaj,

Your only refutation is "no one will use the government coin".

I told you already that the people in the developing world for the most part don't have money to invest in coins. They are rather users of the coin to get paid. Thus they will use what ever they are told to use by the government and large crony corporations that run the developing world.

So if you can't even get your basic demographics correct, then you are not qualified to categorize my post as a conspiracy theory.

It seems you are not a person of factual analysis.

If you are going to get any traction with an altcoin in the developing world, you have to enable them to get paid with it. I have specific ideas for this, but I am not going to share them publicly at this time.

Equadors currency does not even fit the term "coin" as minted by the Bitcoin community. We are here to discuss coins, or crypto currencies, defined by that they are a decentralized ledger.

If you still want to discuss this AnonyMint, I suggest you start a new thread called "Centralized ledger observer".

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 01:49:11 PM

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

I told you already that the people in the developing world for the most part don't have money to invest in coins.

Actually, that's incorrect. People in the developing world have much higher savings rates than people in developed world countries. It doesn't mean most of them wouldn't go for tangible stores of value, but some could and do invest in cryptos too.

You have a math error.

A higher percentage rate of 1/10 the income, doesn't mean they have more to invest. In fact, food is stilll 30% of their budget. And as always the savings is power-law distributed and most of the people in the developing world have very little savings because they can barely meet their basic consumption expenses (and they've gotten a taste of materialism and spend to join the lifestyle of westerners).

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: AnonyMint on September 04, 2014, 01:44:47 PM

I told you already that the people in the developing world for the most part don't have money to invest in coins.

Actually, that's incorrect. People in the developing world have much higher savings rates than people in developed world countries. It doesn't mean most of them wouldn't go for tangible stores of value, but some could and do invest in cryptos too.

Quote from: Este Nuno on September 04, 2014, 01:46:10 PM

Yes, full fledged digital fiat and decentralised cryptocurrencies are a separate animal. One question might be why the average person would want to use something like bitcoin when the government is offering them what they know already in a safer and more convenient form.

Because supply of crypto currencies is predictable and cannot be inflated at a whim and thus can be a store of value?

Este Nuno

legendary

Activity: 826

Merit: 1002

amarha

Quote from: devphp on September 04, 2014, 01:25:13 PM

I am still waiting to hear how digital or digitized is different from fiat in electronic form. Fiat is fiat, no matter how you slice it. Fiat is 'by decree'.

Crypto currencies function by no decree. They are decentrally produced.

And it's not even by decree that matters, although that is important too. What matters is predictability of supply, which never works for fiat, because governments always tend to overspend and overproduce fiat. Fiat has been around for ages and we all know how it ends every time. So what does Ecuador change here?

Yes, full fledged digital fiat and decentralised cryptocurrencies are a separate animal. One question might be why the average person would want to use something like bitcoin when the government is offering them what they know already in a safer and more convenient form. That's average people, not us. Not predominately white, educated, tech focused investors and speculators.

And as AnonyMint pointed out, Hong Kong has already started transitioning to this sort of system many years ago(10?) by way of their octopus smart cards. Which are quite convenient and easy to use. And money there is printed by private banks as well which is interesting and different.

Is everyone here really fully convinced of Bitcoin hegemony in the near future?

edit: Altcoins are the only hope.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Skinnkavaj,

Your only refutation is "no one will use the government coin".

I told you already that the people in the developing world for the most part don't have money to invest in coins. They are rather users of the coin to get paid. Thus they will use what ever they are told to use by the government and large crony corporations that run the developing world.

So if you can't even get your basic demographics correct, then you are not qualified to categorize my post as a conspiracy theory.

It seems you are not a person of factual analysis.

Quote from: btc-mike on September 04, 2014, 01:41:37 PM

That sounds like a new thread - The Altcoin Predictor.

If you are going to get any traction with an altcoin in the developing world, you have to enable them to get paid with it. I have specific ideas for this, but I am not going to share them publicly at this time.

That isn't relevant to observing and analyzing existing altcoins?

btc-mike

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Este Nuno on September 04, 2014, 01:37:22 PM

Quote from: Skinnkavaj on September 04, 2014, 01:06:16 PM

Quote from: Este Nuno on September 04, 2014, 12:55:58 PM

Can we get back to talking about AnonyMint's idea of government backed digital currencies? It's something that seems inevitable but everyone seems to conveniently ignore.

Imagine the efficiency of tax collecting through a database of currency you control. It's the government's ultimate weapon.

Seriously please don't.
I advise rpietila to moderate post about this. This such a boring old subject that has been discussed all over Bitcointalk "What if government blabla"
Truth is government will not succeed because no one will support it this is the whole idea behind Bitcoin, that Bitcoin is unstoppable, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just a complete tin foil hat that can go back to the conspiracy forum.

Can we go back to technical discussions about altcoins and not some conspiracy nut job theories from AnonyMint.

I'm not the type that people would consider a 'nut job' I don't think and I don't agree with many of AnonyMint's theories on what's going to happen with the world, but do people really think that in 20-50 years the world will still be passing around pieces of paper? It's not even a question of if, it's a question of when.

What sort of government wouldn't love to eliminate cash and control their currency through a centralised database? They have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

To dismiss this as some kind of crackpot theory seems very odd to me.

That sounds like a new thread - The Altcoin Predictor.

Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 46. (Read 387552 times)