Topic: Rumor that Bitmain is going belly up! can't pay its chip builder! - page 4. (Read 19832 times)

looks like they(Bitdeer) limit your mining to only antpool and BTC.com   wtf?

Are we talking about that BitDeer thing? It looks horrible: $4400 for 1 PH/s for 30 days. That's actually more that you can expect to mine with current diff and exchange rate.

There is definitely a few dollars to be made if things stay the same. Odds are that if they do sell most of what they want to the discount price will dry up, it doesn't look like they are planning longer term offers at those prices, so it's kind of a buy now or never. Which is just smart advertising,

"the clock is running out, these deals won't last forever, once their gone their gone"

My comment about desperation was a reflection on their need for cash in hand now. There are companies that thrive and plan to operate at losses such as Amazon, but this isn't one of those times. They screwed with the market to heavily, and the BCH issues going back to it's creation no less have put a strain on how much cash they can splash around.

They honestly had everything going for them, Market Share, Branding, Diversification - with pools and hardware as well as taping different Algos. I'm still not sure their predicament right now is due to paying for chips, I think it was a shear loss of capital in what they had from Crypto, which hits them doubly as sales have staled. Combine that with a reckless disregard for stability; and you have the current situation.

Seems Bitmain english store is sparse. Thoughts?

Bitmain has offered cloud mining for years intermittently.

"Subject to immediate change." Daily maintenance is pretty prohibitive also. Looks pretty crummy to me. I wouldn't touch it.

Whether it "reeks of desperation" or not, those are pretty attractive 30 day ROI's they are offering.

For whatever reason I thought they already had there hands in a filthy cloud mining operation. Doesn't surprise me that they would go that route, but it reeks of desperation.

I guess if the hardware isn't flying off the shelves you can trick a few people into a smaller initial investment that in the end leaves them well behind just buying coins; and Bitmain gets someone to pay off the gear and then had a machine to sell down the road.

The cloud "miners" will figure it out in a few months hopefully they dont sign a stupidly long contract

I think inventing your own currency, making sure that everyone gets a buttload of it for free, and then trading hardware for only that currency ("giving it away") wasn't exactly a brilliant financial strategy.

Back to bitmain and their finance, they've started a cloud mining business.
The topic got trashed here so I'm not going to name the website or put links to it but for a buyer, it was a pretty bad investment even with the so-called 30% off.

For me is just an attempt to grab more cash as fast as they can and deal with the payments later (if any) as their ToS is a joke.

Are they seriously sinking, and the rumors about loses are not just rumors anymore? Guess will find out once they will have to reveal the financial situation for Q3 and Q4, if they are going to do it.

It's true you're losing money. What most don't see is the benefit to mining at lower diff if your time preference is low or lower or lowest. Or simply have really cheap power. There is no point for most to mine if there isn't profit. Fact. Power down now. It's understandable, is sound, is good business. If you aren't equipped to weather the storm as a business or hobbyist, power down. Really very simple. The beauty of bitcoin is in the simplicity.

People want to debate about a death spiral. Not happening. Mass computation. Not happening. You want to protect the network, run a full validating node with some hash on it.

Bitmain got greedy, which is understandable actually. Is what people expect if you're not a steward. Hash means nothing if consensus doesn't follow. And consensus is more than just running software in the world.

No, I'm losing money if my income from mining is less than what I have to pay to do the mining.
You are confusing "investment" and "mining" - and I don't have the LUXURY of just hanging onto my mined cryptocoin as an investment, I have bills to pay and no other income source to pay them with.

Yes it is a store of transactions.  But it is slow and archaic and incapable of competing with the "Kings" of the space. Paypal, Visa, Master Card etc. Once activity gets too voluminous and the network overwhelmed, and it doesn't take much. It slows to a crawl and Tx fees become prohibitive. They even get very unfair as we've all seen and prioritize preference and order of block verification by amount of payment. To your point of "volatility". I would disagree in part. In fairness, BTC's market cap and available supply make it susceptible to wild swings in price. This can happen on the "long" side and the "short side" of the market. It's long been a bane of newer technologies to suffer these influences. It's human nature to try and find someone or something to blame. It's just growing pains. a natural process of "price discovery". BTC had no business being valued at $19,000 just as it has no business being valued at $2,500.00. When scaling solutions become the norm, we will all cheer and jump for joy as the existing "shorts" in the market get their heads ripped off. Just as the "wrong longs" got their heads ripped off at the highs.

Scaling to appropriate and competitive levels by today's standards means at least 1 million transactions per second capability. LN can do this once it's adopted and implemented (or something similar). This is what I mean by "transactionally viable".

This is really getting off topic now isn't it? Bitcoin is a currency, a store of value. The freedom is that you're sovereign to do what you wish with it like any other money. The great thing is that it's yours if you hold your keys. As far as mining for profit, I do and I don't. I'll be excited for the day when there is no reference to a fiat market.   

Bitmain looks like they're taking notes and releasing more gear. All said and done the S11 should have been release earlier this year Q2. They may be better off, then their fun with altcoins really is what killed them anyway. That and budgeting for a market/demand at 20k. I suppose my philosophy is about establishing roots, not growing branches. Leaves, flowers, fruits will come if you're able to sustain them.

To an extent. Technically this was supposed to go to WO, but for some reason I posted it here. That said, it does point out another reason to mine: Free heat. I could run a space heater in the upstairs room, but instead run miners to keep the top floor warm. The bitcoins offset the heat bill and their drone acts as an excellent white noise generator.

The AC unit kicks on when the room temp goes over 75F. This is kind of funny when it's 20F outside, and the unit is basically free cooling from the outside to inside.

In the summer the difference in miner temps between 75 degree AC cooled air and 100 degree outside air is quite substantial. For longest life IMO it's best to keep the air inlet temps below 80 or so.

You'll have to explain why it's not "transactionally viable", given that the network is literally a store of transactions.

Volatility can be blamed on boogeymen, since they're the only ones who profit from exploiting that kind of thing, and volatility prevents widespread utility. The problem with reduced utility is a self-fulfilling prophecy. People see a thing to be exploited, make it unstable, and there's no mass adoption. Because there's no mass adoption, it remains unstable and exploitable. It's only seen as "a store of value" because the ones who use it that way, by continuing to use it that way, prevent it from being used as intended.

Use and mass adoption don't come from mining. It comes from utility and "use cases" ( adoption as a payment option by Amazon) being a solution to existing problems. BTC is unable to scale, plain and simple. It is a brilliant and essential protocol, but has no ability to grow and scale. It hasn't changed one iota in many years. The internet achieved the same "stall" early on, and we are still "early on". If and when BTC becomes massively scaleable, then and only then will it be massively adopted. IE; Lightning Network or similar solutions the this dinosaur. Right now it is still just a store of value. Subject to the same fluctuations as any other store of value such as Gold or Silver. Once it becomes transactionally viable, you'll see a whole new world. Until then people will keep blaming boogie men, such as "short sellers and miners".

If I had merits I would send you a bunch.

I fully agree with you I also wonder what the difficulty would be like now too if we had not seen farms and pools and had kept mining simple and for home miners.

When people can't "participate" it pushed people away from a system what bitcoin needed was more user adoption but like already said that route is now no longer a viable one for newcomers.

maybe he was joking

I didn't think anyone was using AC to mine. Particularly in that cold of a temperature. You just up the airflow and use the ambient air from outside to cool everything. Even in the summer, just with even more airflow.