Rumor that Bitmain is going belly up! can't pay its chip builder! - page 9.

yrk1957

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Quote from: philipma1957 on November 07, 2018, 10:10:38 PM

I saw a denial but it seemed to not be direct from TSMC

do you have an official link

Only this was in the tweet, quotes a TSMC spokesperson:

https://m.sohu.com/a/273339023_115060/?pvid=000115_3w_a

Quote from: Steamtyme on November 07, 2018, 11:27:07 PM

Apart from protecting their own image of financial stability I can't see why TSMC would comment on a customers ability to pay bills unless they have gone well beyond the payment schedule. The only reason I see them making a statement denying these rumors is to ensure their shareholders that they aren't in trouble.

Can't say that I know anything about the money TSMC makes or how much of that Bitmain is responsible for; but I could see news like this affecting them more than Bitmain at the moment. So this statement may be nothing more than reassuring their business partners that they 1) Have no large amount of outstanding debt they may not be able to recover and 2) That they do not have any particular large customers that are ATM going out of business creating a potential sales void.

TSMC rode on crypto:

https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-mining-boost-helps-taiwanese-chip-maker-break-sales-record/

They better be quelling rumors...

Steamtyme

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Apart from protecting their own image of financial stability I can't see why TSMC would comment on a customers ability to pay bills unless they have gone well beyond the payment schedule. The only reason I see them making a statement denying these rumors is to ensure their shareholders that they aren't in trouble.

Can't say that I know anything about the money TSMC makes or how much of that Bitmain is responsible for; but I could see news like this affecting them more than Bitmain at the moment. So this statement may be nothing more than reassuring their business partners that they 1) Have no large amount of outstanding debt they may not be able to recover and 2) That they do not have any particular large customers that are ATM going out of business creating a potential sales void.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: yrk1957 on November 07, 2018, 08:47:21 PM

For what it’s worth TSMC has already denied these rumors.

I saw a denial but it seemed to not be direct from TSMC

do you have an official link

yrk1957

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For what it’s worth TSMC has already denied these rumors.

squall1066

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I for one don't mind saying I hope the rumors are true, I have had bad experiences and blunders from their "team" and it cost me thousands, and I did not even get a "sorry"

I am glad there are other options/manufacturers now than there were a while ago, but this is just rumour so far.

IIRC a good while ago bitmain was in a similar situation (again rumour) and was said to buy coins enough to raise the price and dump getting more money for their total volume of coins to pay everyone, its an amusing thought tho.

QuintLeo

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Quote from: qctechno_isback on November 05, 2018, 10:49:48 PM

S15 and T15 ... all the S10-11-12-13-14 went to trash ?

Even model numbers were traditionally "server size" designs - and haven't been done for a long while.

I suspect the S13 was the intended model that they had failures on their "risk dies" order(s).

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Coingeek is owned by Calvin Ayre which is the epitome of unobjective. I'd wait to hear from more sources before believing anything.

It is conceivable I suppose. Just goes to show the power of the collective will. You can't singlehandedly turn it no matter how powerful you think you are.

NotFuzzyWarm

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Evil beware: We have waffles!

Quote from: Steamtyme on November 06, 2018, 06:11:15 PM

Just wondering if it's the design that's on Bitmain, if it's in the process does that fall under the foundry to eat the cost?

New product and process runs are a collaboration between customer and Foundry. Foundries set an initial cost the customer pays regardless of where defects occur.

xxxABJxxx

jr. member

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Invest in Mining Hardware:

- you had a lot of stuff
- every day you take a look at the hardware
- you hope that hardware is not damaged in one year or later
- you have problems with the heat
- problems with your elektricity
- one year later, new miners are out and you make less money.

Invest in "real solid" coins on your hardware wallet:

- no stuff, only a little wallet
- relax
- play with your kids
- make other things that make you happy
- maybe start another business and make more money
- watch in 3 years on your wallet. maybe you are rich or not. But you not waste your time in the last 3 years.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: mikeywith on November 06, 2018, 08:31:27 PM

these were bitmain hodlings a couple months ago, BCH is almost at the same rate from the date of their leaked IPO documents March 31

https://i.imgur.com/yaMTaqU.jpg

that looks like a huge chunk of coins. of course assuming they still have all of them which i doubt.

I think the S15 sales will determine that next position of where bitmain will stand. and what is more important is the overall market situation. should we see another bull run soon, i think bitmain will survive at least by selling what ever worthless asics they are stuck with " assuming they will become profitable if prices should go up" . if we stay in bear market for couple more months. then it may be a fair-well to bitmain.

yeah it is interesting to see what will happen.

I wonder if they will do a longer preorder on the 8th or gear will be a fast release. (very important)

A 6 week wait or longer on the new gear and the info floating around against them could man they are in trouble.

A fast ship and decent gear could mean they will right the ship.

And a long bear market will hurt them.

MedallionGroupCo

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just about to order some antminers and stumbled on this!..wow!

mikeywith

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be constructive or S.T.F.U

these were bitmain hodlings a couple months ago, BCH is almost at the same rate from the date of their leaked IPO documents March 31

that looks like a huge chunk of coins. of course assuming they still have all of them which i doubt.

I think the S15 sales will determine that next position of where bitmain will stand. and what is more important is the overall market situation. should we see another bull run soon, i think bitmain will survive at least by selling what ever worthless asics they are stuck with " assuming they will become profitable if prices should go up" . if we stay in bear market for couple more months. then it may be a fair-well to bitmain.

xxxABJxxx

jr. member

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Last year my brother bought a Antminer L3+ at BCH price at 300 USD.

Weeks later BCH was traded at max. round about 4.000 USD.

Investing in coins, he could have increased his investment tenfold.

But because he bought the Antminer he made losses.

Think about it. It only deserves the manufacturer.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Steamtyme on November 06, 2018, 06:11:15 PM

Thanks for doing the address thing again Phil. Definitely not as bright and shiny as last year but who knows how many wallets they have. I could see all this BCH drama and work to prop it up as having cost them quite a bit.

It's funny that on one side there are the stories of impending bankruptcy, and on the other there is the launch of the new product line.

Almost smells like a big old PR stunt. Agent they preparing for an IPO or something right now. So even if half the news is speculation about money problems as long as they can show they are not broke it's not harmful.

[...]

I would think contracts vary.

Bitmain has had a lot of chips burned to wafers by that foundry. So I would think they could ask for more than some other companies.

Steamtyme

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Thanks for doing the address thing again Phil. Definitely not as bright and shiny as last year but who knows how many wallets they have. I could see all this BCH drama and work to prop it up as having cost them quite a bit.

It's funny that on one side there are the stories of impending bankruptcy, and on the other there is the launch of the new product line.

Almost smells like a big old PR stunt. Agent they preparing for an IPO or something right now. So even if half the news is speculation about money problems as long as they can show they are not broke it's not harmful.

Quote from: QuintLeo on November 06, 2018, 05:01:23 PM

... but no details on if it was the design that failed or the process.

Just wondering if it's the design that's on Bitmain, if it's in the process does that fall under the foundry to eat the cost?

QuintLeo

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Quote from: Steamtyme on November 05, 2018, 12:31:09 AM

Interesting read. Hard to tell how much truth there is to it. I know there have been the rumors of a failed chip design, I think you mentioned something about a second even.

It's been fairly widely reported that Bitmain had "risk chip failures" on at least one 7/10nm design - but no details on if it was the design that failed or the process.

Quote from: qctechno_isback on November 05, 2018, 10:49:48 PM

S15 and T15 ... all the S10-11-12-13-14 went to trash ?

Even model numbers were traditionally "server size" designs - and haven't been done for a long while.

I suspect the S13 was the intended model that they had failures on their "risk dies" order(s).

sidehack

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Curmudgeonly hardware guy

Like when they price-warred Spondoolies into bankruptcy and then upped the price of their S5 by 40% the next day "just because".
What about the time they changed the S7 design from a 0.26J/GH miner to a 0.30J/GH miner with lower overall cost and reliability but the same price tag and didn't change the advertising numbers? And also built it with inherent undervolting for efficiency but didn't put that option in any public-release firmware (though very likely did in-house)?

Definitely not abusing the community.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: TheHas on November 06, 2018, 06:32:55 AM

I hope they go belly up. Although they'll probably just be replaced by another asic mining company - few new players coming into the market.

You would think just with their existing stock and mining operations they would be able to (slowly) pay back whatever they owe their chip builder.

You would also think a company as well placed as bitmain during the crypto mining boom in end 2017 wouldn't have any problems paying off its debts.

Something wrong in the story not sure what.

fanatic26_

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Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on November 06, 2018, 10:52:34 AM

Only thing I disagree with is "Years of extortion prices and abuse". It's called Free Market and BM just charged what the market would bear. No one held a gun to peoples heads to make them buy their miners so there is nothing wrong with that at all. If you have a problem with BM then don't buy their miners. I stopped buying Ants and moved to Avalons when BM tried to force BitCH on us and have never looked back.

If BM and other miner makers charged rock-bottom prices from day-1 and in turn sold even more miners can you imagine where diff would be today?

Quoted for truth. Bitmain has always priced their miners based off ROI, as has Canaan and others.

TheHas

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I hope they go belly up. Although they'll probably just be replaced by another asic mining company - few new players coming into the market.

You would think just with their existing stock and mining operations they would be able to (slowly) pay back whatever they owe their chip builder.

You would also think a company as well placed as bitmain during the crypto mining boom in end 2017 wouldn't have any problems paying off its debts.

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