Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 369. (Read 78223 times)

I am not from Russia. I dont know the real situation there, I get only what social media show me. Sadly, I dont know what to offer them or what is the solution to their situation. I think that all anti-Putin campaigns and actions will repeat "Orange revolution" and "Donbass" situations and consequences on Russian territory. I expect the world will have Ukraine 2.0 on Russian territory, and long financial crisis.

What I know, that during president election in 2018, 3/4 of all votes were for him. In addition there were those who did not vote. I count that 1/4 of Russian population is suffering from sanctions and etc. Some people made wrong decisions, and now "all those Russians" turned bad immediately. I bet there are places right now where you are got punched in the face for being Russian, even though you did nothing wrong.

I am sick and tired from all that crap from TV. "Stop Russia", "Russians are bad". The people who made decisions are bad. Why blame whole nation when mistakes were done by few people. For example if I in the US I got robbed by a black person and start a picket "Black people are criminals", "Black lives matter" community will disassemble me into molecules next minute.

I dont know who I am really is. Born in USSR, speak Russian, have non-Russian nationality and live in European country. I dont have any connections to Russia. I was only there several times on excursion or passing by. But when I speak Russian on public people look at me like I was that person who bombed Kiev or fired an automatic burst on civilians hour ago.

Sick.

Negotiations between Russia and Ukraine started in border with Belarus. But it's difficult to expect results from it. Russia doesn't seem to be open for talk because they already went too far.
Wagner group fighters are in Kyiv now. It's private fighters from Russia who were in Syria war previously. Their task here - kill Zelensky.
@suchmoon already said one point why it's wrong comparison. I'll add another one. Poland and Baltic states have joined NATO long time ago. We have American troops there, but did it made Russia vulnerable or created danger for them? I think Ukraine should have decide themselves what they want to do with their country future.

I'm sorry for innocent Russian people who will have to suffer, but what you're offering? How to prove that someone is anti-Putin? Or they shouldn't make sanctions to Russia?
I don't know, maybe when people in Russia will start to suffer from sanctions, maybe they won't be silent anymore.

Believe me its not possible to talk sanity and balance into these people,
especially if you consider the woke radicalisation that is fueling this anti putin hatred.

There are people who did not vote for Putin, are against his politics and were not able to leave Russian, but not suffer from sanctions and etc. Is whole world is going to help them? Maybe collect donations for them? Or help them to leave?Or it is their problem that they were born in Russia? Or we have double standards? Bunch of people cant agree on something, due to that nations now suffer, but call for help is only for one side.

It's the anti-Ukraine propaganda that's convinced you that anyone is trying to convince anyone that there aren't corruption issues in Ukraine.  

Typical right wing victim shaming.  No different than every time a white cop kills a black guy or a woman accuses someone they like of sexual assault.

By the way, guess who's responsible for more corruption in Ukraine than any other person?  Same guy that's responsible for the invasion.

Putin is a maniac, he needs to be stopped.

Just when diplomacy was active, Putin started suddenly invading Ukraine, an independent country. He's a crazy idiot.
I hope, we can deliever enough defensive weapons to Ukraine in time as a defense for Ukraine.

Putin killed so many people already and it's just 4 days of war.
He should be accused as a war criminal in Den Hague

This boggles my mind.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-invasion-ukraine-kills-352-civilians-including-14-children-2022-02-27

So Russia is loosing 10 soldiers and 2 armored vehicles ... for every civilian death? This is either the most humane military "operation" (comparing to Kosovo, Iraq, Syria etc...) or the numbers are way off, fog of war?

There isn't really any plausible strategic interest for Russia (as in Russian people, or Russian Federation; not the current clown dictator) to make Ukraine an impoverished, oppressed, resentful nation by attempting to invade it. It's just madman's dream to turn history back. This never works. And the Soviet history is horrid. No sane person wants a repeat of that.

Lecturing Ukrainians to stay neutral is no different than telling them to join Russia. They should treat any such "advice" like they treated that Russian warship.

This six years old lecture sums thing very well. I wish more and more Ukrainian would understand the politics of West.

I agree it was a false equivalent but I was trying to make a point by this. Here you have the real equivalence, from 25:19th minute - 26:20 minute.

I did not mean to make it right, please don't get me wrong. What I meant is that it's obviously wrong for anyone to invade other country who are independent. But for strategic interests world leaders are doing is from the beginning. 

Anyway, here is the key point of this lecture.



44:40th minute to 45:17 minute summed up everything for Ukrainians.

/Link edited.

 

False equivalence. Canada was not subject to US occupation for decades or centuries prior to this hypothetical scenario, so it's unlikely to look for protection against a potential US military invasion the way Eastern Europe looks for protection against a potential (and now very real) Russian invasion.

But even if it was somehow a valid example, it would be wrong for the US to invade Canada in such circumstances and it is wrong for Russia to invade Ukraine. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.


Roughly zero, because protests are illegal and they get arrested as soon as they try to.

And how many of those 144.1 million people are on the streets of Russian cities protesting against the aggression their government is committing against other nations?

This is your situation, I am sorry.

Here is where the main problem - NATO.

Imagine (hypothetically) there is a preparation for Canada to ally with Russia what would you think US would do. Just allow Canada to give Canadian land for Russian troops and make America vulnerable? The world leaders need power, they are power hungry and your precedent is just a bait for them.

LOL I came here to post this.

I'm still amazed how there are scattered small groups or even lone tanks/BMPs just riding across the country... what lunatic planned this "operation" (rhetorical question).

To be frank, this is the problem of the Russians themselves, since they themselves allow one person to decide their fate, therefore their government easily suppresses their inner voice. But in reality, the people should be tough and assertive, then the government will listen to the people.

In 2014, a revolution took place in Ukraine, and although I do not approve of its consequences, since 70% of the protesters received money for this and, as a result, Poroshenko became the president, the same bastard as his predecessor ... these events turned into something more, for the first time in In Ukraine, the president was democratically elected (in 2019) and now Zelensky has done more than all past presidents combined since 1991.

China is hoping that western governments will be scared to help Ukraine. They are on the side of Russia. China has similar ambissions for Taiwan. 

Putin took months to build up his military, and while he was doing so, he claimed to be doing military exercises. This gave the people of Ukraine time to be aware of the threat of a pending invasion, and it makes the pretext that Putin is using for the invasion clearly false without even knowing the details of Putin's allligations.

Russian soldiers appear to be demoralized, and do not appear to believe in what they are fighting for. There are reports that the solders were told they were going to the Ukraine border for exercises, not for war. There are reports that Russian solders are surrendering without even taking any fire.

Putin is known to take big risks by western standards. He also owes his power to the oligarchs in his country, some of whom have faced increasingly stiff sanctions in recent years. The KGB does not have the same surveillance capabilities that China does, so it is difficult for Putin to truly know who is and isn't loyal.

It is also possible that Putin is unsure of who he can trust inside his inner circle. The west exposed Putin's plan to execute a false flag attack well ahead of time and may have made public the planned invasion date ahead of time. Both suggest that Putin has leaks coming from his inner circle.

It is not uncommon for peace talks to be held in person. Although asking to have the talks in a country that is not neutral does pose a risk to the Ukraine deligation, and does smell like a trap.

There are no time to judge what is wrong and what is right at the moment, it's a question of surviving. When someone hits me with a bullet, I will hit back with whatever I have to survive. I am sorry that it is happening to you. I am sorry that the civilians of Ukraine suffering the loss of lives. The WAR needs to stop. I have civilians of Ukraine in my prayers.

You are suffering, scaring to death for the decisions made by your politicians and 144.1 million Russians are going to suffer for their politicians too. What harm these 144.1 million people did that they will face the consequences of the sanctions coming from all over the world?

Imagine just because you are a Russian - your assets will be seized if they are in abroad, you can not fly, you can not participate in any financial deal with foreign county, you can not see your relatives, they can not come to you. Imagine you are living in abroad and just because your are a Russian, you will lose job, you can not conduct any business, your assets will be seized, you are losing your identity. Imagine you hated this war as much Ukrainian people did and you never wanted your Ukrainian brothers, sisters, cousins to be killed but you are facing all these consequences.

Yes sure Putin is killing innocent Ukrainians but USA and other EU leaders are not doing less. They are making the future of innocent Russian civilians life a misery, dragging them towards dark which is not lesser than killing someone with a single bullet.

I have already said,

The world could have a better place if there were no border and no dirty politics. You would not need United Nations, North Atlantic Treaty Organization, European Union, World Trade Organization, International Criminal Court, World Bank or former Soviet Union type of organizations.

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Edited to add one more line at the end

Ukraine should agree not to join NATO, and then join NATO, and then tell Russia that reports of them joining NATO isn't true.  It's just western war mongering.  

I bet China is waiting for the right moment to make a twist in this whole WAR WAR game.

Ukraine could agree to not join NATO, the trouble is that both sides have a vastly different understanding of what that means. Putin likely wants to keep Russian troops in the country and/or have a puppet government. Ukrainians would likely want some sort of security guarantee but not by Russia, which really doesn't leave a lot of options that aren't related to NATO. Maybe China can step in here

He isn't going to give up that easily through negotiations, we're talking about someone who invades the same country twice within a few years. I hate to say this, but he's not planning on giving up anytime soon, any kind of negotiations won't be friendly and definitely won't be a win - win situation, the only thing that Putin is going to negotiate is Ukraine's surrender. I'm still positive that Russia hasn't used even half of their military capabilities, meaning that if everything else fails, he could potentially go nuts on Ukrainian cities, without caring about any casualties.