Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 371. (Read 74267 times)

This boggles my mind.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-invasion-ukraine-kills-352-civilians-including-14-children-2022-02-27

So Russia is loosing 10 soldiers and 2 armored vehicles ... for every civilian death? This is either the most humane military "operation" (comparing to Kosovo, Iraq, Syria etc...) or the numbers are way off, fog of war?

There isn't really any plausible strategic interest for Russia (as in Russian people, or Russian Federation; not the current clown dictator) to make Ukraine an impoverished, oppressed, resentful nation by attempting to invade it. It's just madman's dream to turn history back. This never works. And the Soviet history is horrid. No sane person wants a repeat of that.

Lecturing Ukrainians to stay neutral is no different than telling them to join Russia. They should treat any such "advice" like they treated that Russian warship.

This six years old lecture sums thing very well. I wish more and more Ukrainian would understand the politics of West.

I agree it was a false equivalent but I was trying to make a point by this. Here you have the real equivalence, from 25:19th minute - 26:20 minute.

I did not mean to make it right, please don't get me wrong. What I meant is that it's obviously wrong for anyone to invade other country who are independent. But for strategic interests world leaders are doing is from the beginning.  

Anyway, here is the key point of this lecture.



44:40th minute to 45:17 minute summed up everything for Ukrainians.

/Link edited.

 

False equivalence. Canada was not subject to US occupation for decades or centuries prior to this hypothetical scenario, so it's unlikely to look for protection against a potential US military invasion the way Eastern Europe looks for protection against a potential (and now very real) Russian invasion.

But even if it was somehow a valid example, it would be wrong for the US to invade Canada in such circumstances and it is wrong for Russia to invade Ukraine. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.


Roughly zero, because protests are illegal and they get arrested as soon as they try to.

And how many of those 144.1 million people are on the streets of Russian cities protesting against the aggression their government is committing against other nations?

This is your situation, I am sorry.

Here is where the main problem - NATO.

Imagine (hypothetically) there is a preparation for Canada to ally with Russia what would you think US would do. Just allow Canada to give Canadian land for Russian troops and make America vulnerable? The world leaders need power, they are power hungry and your precedent is just a bait for them.

LOL I came here to post this.

I'm still amazed how there are scattered small groups or even lone tanks/BMPs just riding across the country... what lunatic planned this "operation" (rhetorical question).

Here is the latest from the Russian front:

https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1498023662695419910

How do you occupy a country with people who will do anything to harm you?

Putin is done.

To be frank, this is the problem of the Russians themselves, since they themselves allow one person to decide their fate, therefore their government easily suppresses their inner voice. But in reality, the people should be tough and assertive, then the government will listen to the people.

In 2014, a revolution took place in Ukraine, and although I do not approve of its consequences, since 70% of the protesters received money for this and, as a result, Poroshenko became the president, the same bastard as his predecessor ... these events turned into something more, for the first time in In Ukraine, the president was democratically elected (in 2019) and now Zelensky has done more than all past presidents combined since 1991.

China is hoping that western governments will be scared to help Ukraine. They are on the side of Russia. China has similar ambissions for Taiwan. 

Putin took months to build up his military, and while he was doing so, he claimed to be doing military exercises. This gave the people of Ukraine time to be aware of the threat of a pending invasion, and it makes the pretext that Putin is using for the invasion clearly false without even knowing the details of Putin's allligations.

Russian soldiers appear to be demoralized, and do not appear to believe in what they are fighting for. There are reports that the solders were told they were going to the Ukraine border for exercises, not for war. There are reports that Russian solders are surrendering without even taking any fire.

Putin is known to take big risks by western standards. He also owes his power to the oligarchs in his country, some of whom have faced increasingly stiff sanctions in recent years. The KGB does not have the same surveillance capabilities that China does, so it is difficult for Putin to truly know who is and isn't loyal.

It is also possible that Putin is unsure of who he can trust inside his inner circle. The west exposed Putin's plan to execute a false flag attack well ahead of time and may have made public the planned invasion date ahead of time. Both suggest that Putin has leaks coming from his inner circle.

It is not uncommon for peace talks to be held in person. Although asking to have the talks in a country that is not neutral does pose a risk to the Ukraine deligation, and does smell like a trap.

There are no time to judge what is wrong and what is right at the moment, it's a question of surviving. When someone hits me with a bullet, I will hit back with whatever I have to survive. I am sorry that it is happening to you. I am sorry that the civilians of Ukraine suffering the loss of lives. The WAR needs to stop. I have civilians of Ukraine in my prayers.

You are suffering, scaring to death for the decisions made by your politicians and 144.1 million Russians are going to suffer for their politicians too. What harm these 144.1 million people did that they will face the consequences of the sanctions coming from all over the world?

Imagine just because you are a Russian - your assets will be seized if they are in abroad, you can not fly, you can not participate in any financial deal with foreign county, you can not see your relatives, they can not come to you. Imagine you are living in abroad and just because your are a Russian, you will lose job, you can not conduct any business, your assets will be seized, you are losing your identity. Imagine you hated this war as much Ukrainian people did and you never wanted your Ukrainian brothers, sisters, cousins to be killed but you are facing all these consequences.

Yes sure Putin is killing innocent Ukrainians but USA and other EU leaders are not doing less. They are making the future of innocent Russian civilians life a misery, dragging them towards dark which is not lesser than killing someone with a single bullet.

I have already said,

The world could have a better place if there were no border and no dirty politics. You would not need United Nations, North Atlantic Treaty Organization, European Union, World Trade Organization, International Criminal Court, World Bank or former Soviet Union type of organizations.

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Edited to add one more line at the end

Ukraine should agree not to join NATO, and then join NATO, and then tell Russia that reports of them joining NATO isn't true.  It's just western war mongering.  

I bet China is waiting for the right moment to make a twist in this whole WAR WAR game.

Ukraine could agree to not join NATO, the trouble is that both sides have a vastly different understanding of what that means. Putin likely wants to keep Russian troops in the country and/or have a puppet government. Ukrainians would likely want some sort of security guarantee but not by Russia, which really doesn't leave a lot of options that aren't related to NATO. Maybe China can step in here

He isn't going to give up that easily through negotiations, we're talking about someone who invades the same country twice within a few years. I hate to say this, but he's not planning on giving up anytime soon, any kind of negotiations won't be friendly and definitely won't be a win - win situation, the only thing that Putin is going to negotiate is Ukraine's surrender. I'm still positive that Russia hasn't used even half of their military capabilities, meaning that if everything else fails, he could potentially go nuts on Ukrainian cities, without caring about any casualties.

It seems to me that Putin has changed.  He is not the calculating, diplomatic, logical chess player he used to be even 10 years ago.  
His actions are a bit erratic and unpredictable.  I am not sure but I watched his videos over the years and did psychological profiles on him,
I can tell you, he lost his problem-solving skills.  His facial expressions deteriorated.  He is more angry, impatient and there is this unspoken
urgency in his communication, both verbal and non-verbal. He could be physically or mentally sick and that causes his changes in behavior.

Going into Ukraine with no logistical support beyond 3 days was a mistake that even a junior military strategist would not make.
That tells me he is making all decisions by himself and rejecting the advice of his military commanders.

Nuclear readiness is just a scare tactic ahead of the meeting with the Ukrainian delegation tomorrow.
If he kills them, we'll know we are dealing with a mad man.  Why do they have to meet in person?  No teleconferencing in Russia?

I think he knows he entered a war he cannot win so I think he is looking for some sort of way out and a promise that Ukraine
will never join NATO.  Which I think the Ukrainian side will reject.  The whole 'meeting' is BS of course.  Just buying time to refuel.

I just do not foresee him deploying his all army and reserves into Ukraine to control it.  
Even with his ~3M (regular and reserves) forces, it will be hard to carry out guerrilla warfare with people who have a history of
resisting invaders.

The more he escalates it, the more isolated his Soviet regime will become.

I wish I could believe this, but it is not the case. Putin can still afford quite a few casualties and what he calls "negotiating" in his mind is "negotiating the terms of the surrender" which seems to be well away from what Ukraine is willing to accept.

This war of aggression is going to get messy and bloody. Putin will lay siege to cities, use artillery to avoid losses, destroy infrastructure and cut out supplies to send Ukraine back to the middle ages. Yet Ukraine will hold and aim to cause an unacceptable level of losses or a cost that will make Russians consider other options.

 

Putin should have stopped when the two regions of eastern Ukraine as independent ("Donetsk People's Republic"and the "Luhansk People's Republic"), if he actually wanted to prove a point that Russian - speaking Ukrainian's were suffering, if that's even close to true, instead, he decided to head to Kyiv, trying to occupy the whole country.

However, I don't get how Putin believed he would be perceived as, when he's invading a country militarily, killing unarmed citizens in the process, throwing bombs and having battles right next to your doorstep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPxAVzP-O3c

Russian soldiers are being killed by a truckload. That is why Putin wants to 'negotiate'.

More Russian soldiers were killed so far than in the early days of the war in Afghanistan.

https://twitter.com/MFA_Ukraine/status/1497983902614315008

Putin's invasion of Ukraine is impossible to predict. The only certainty is that the situation is escalating rapidly and will likely become even messier before it improves. Even if he succeeds in taking over Ukraine, he just set in motion a chain reaction that will strengthen NATO to levels it has never seen before. He can continue to wreak havoc inside Ukraine, but it seems he signed his own "death warrant", and most likely his own regime will try to get rid of him.

But Putin is causing Ukraine a great deal of suffering, which I worry about more than the political or economic impact. My main concern is for the people of Ukraine, because it is likely they will suffer the most from a prolonged war that won't end anytime soon. As I write this, I keep wondering how much longer the people in Ukraine can possibly withstand the pressure the Russian army is putting on them. I pray for the people of Ukraine.