Topic: SANDSTORM: - A Collective Investment Vehicle for BTC. - - page 15. (Read 35774 times)

Wait, are we considering that OP an actual contract? If it is supposed to be a security contract, the issuer should gpg sign it so we can know if it gets modified.

The obligation does not lie with the reader to interpret the contract when things are unclear or worded poorly. It sits with the issuer to be clear and concise.

Regardless- this security raises many red flags on the long list of what comprises a ponzi.

Obviously he is going to raise capital and then 1% of that is the target for profit, not that he is returning raised capital. So if he raises 100 btc, his target for profit is 1 btc, which profit would be given as a dividend, not that 1 of the 100 initial capital is returned. So after a week he will have ~ 1 btc profit, which he gives as dividend, leaving the 100 btc capital.

It could have been stated more clearly, but you do not have to purposely misread his words.

I am just repeating what you said. "Releasing dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings." You stated you are going to raise money and then you are going to release 1% of it back to shareholders each week. The language you used that I quoted makes no mention of profit, only raised capital from issuing shares.

Then in the last week you should have had a dividend of 0.49, but you had a dividend of 1.9? Shouldn't the extra 1.41 be divided between the buffer and the dividends?

I think I remember that on the list of things to look out for in a Ponzi: limiting initial investment, slowly letting bigger and bigger investments be made into the scheme.


I don't think this is true. Trading myself I do not have to wonder if the guy doing the trading is going to run off with my money.


To those saying 1% a week is untenable, I have been getting at least that much on my (admittedly small) portion of my portfolio in bitcoin investments. But I have had a few negative weeks, saying you never have negative weeks sounds a bit fishy. (My USD investment portfolio has been averaging about 1% a year, stupid stock market economy grumble grumble grumble mpfh ...)

-Dividends only come from profit through the trading and investment activities. I don't know why you would think i would do this. I'd take dividends out of my own pocket before taking them out of the fund.

-The key word there is relatively. Sandstorm is less risky than trading yourself but obviously more risky than a lot of the funds on the market. It's simply a fund that is geared more aggressively than the funds on the market.

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Goal two adresses this. I would never sell shares in a manner that would decrease their value. I have a vested interest in the increase of shareprice. Why would i want to dilute the fund?

-yes. If you don't believe it then why not follow my trades. my btct.co portfolio is public.

I just want to say a couple of things here:

-I'm not going anywhere with anyones BTC. I've fully disclosed my ID to people that have bought shares so far. I don't hide behind an alias on this site.
-The IPO is tiny. This is a reflection on the amount of trust i think i deserve. Which isn't much. I'm not kidding myself here. I think people should wait before forming an opinion on my understanding of economics and ability to trade BTC related elements.

No.

Best case scenario: This 'fund' will be managed by someone who appears to have almost no knowledge of finance and has crafted a terribly vague contract.

Worse case scenario: This 'fund' is a HYIP and a lot of people will get burned.

There is literally no reason to return raised capital back to shareholders in this manner- unless you want to make it appear as though the fund has some form of positive cash flow. This is the same strategy that all HYIPs abide by.


Your 'plan' so far appears to be to trade miscellaneous securities and hope to profit. Speculation ≠ Investment, and is anything but low risk. The sad thing is, other than you saying the fund is "low risk", you don't address risk at all.


Nowhere in the contract does it state how future offerings will be priced. Red flag for potential future dilution.


Do you honestly expect people to believe that?

You said that twice. how creative.....


Do you have any actual input, questions? Or should I just expect constant unsubstantiated defamation from you...

It doesn't look like you know what you're doing.

I cannot guarantee this. However I plan to operate the fund in a way not dissimilar to my portfolio. Never have I had a negative week and when you pay as much attention to the markets as I do, it is not hard to achieve an average 1%.

In the event of a negative week dividends will come out of the aforementioned carry over fund. The weekly financial reporting is there to indicate to shareholders and investors the health of the fund.

This fund does not come without risks therefore it isn't close to a bond. Right now a fraction of the fund is long in AM shares. If AM was to go under right now, the fund would have a bad week.


To be honest right now I have no interest in buying, selling, mining hardware. I see much to greater risk in these type of investments for the very reason you stated. This is just inserted in the list to leave options open to this kind of investment. If you invest in Sandstorm you are placing an element of trust in the decisions that i make on a weekly basis.

In direct response to your discussion. Any exposure to fiat will be well thought out and will only be a small percentage of the entire fund. [/list][/list]

Hi,

Thanks for starting a constructive discussion Ukyo. I appreciate it, the feedback helps me further solidify the fund.


100% profits up to 1% of capital raised will go to dividends. Profits above this will be divided into a reserve "carryover fund" and further dividends. The allocation will depend on the health of the carry over fund. This carry over is a safety net for the chance of a negative week.

It would be good to get feedback on this. Would it be better to have a constant fraction above the 1%?



This is somewhat tailored to the voting system on btct.co. This may present a challenge on bitfunder. But for now i plan to keep this policy.

[/list]

There are two main things which concern me about this :

Is this a goal or a minimum expectation?  A goal is something you hope to achieve a minimum expectation is something you assume you WILL achieve.

What happens if you have a losing week?  Do you still pay at least 1% in dividends?  If so, where does it come from.  If not do you REALLY expect that you'll never have a losing week?

If you intend to guarantee a minimum return then this isn't a fund - it's nearer a bond but without any demonstration of assets supporting the claimed guarantee of a minimum return.

If it's nowhere near guaranteed then your goals boil down to "make profit" - which isn't exactly enlightening as a goal (nearly every business at least claims that).


All of these carry high fiat-exposure.  If you buy hardware it's almost always going to have a price/value in fiat.  If BTC then rises sharply vs fiat you MAY make a profit in fiat - but in BTC (what your fund is valued in) you'd make a loss.

Paying for something in BTC doesn't magically make its value/price static in BTC.

If you trade BTC/USD then at times you will hold USD.  If BTC then rises you will lose (in BTC).

Mining is pretty much fiat-denominated most of the time (right now it isn't - but within a few months it'll be back to being fiat-denominated).

How can you aim for (let alone nearly promise) BTC-denominated profit when a significant part of your planned activities will bear heavy exposure to the BTC/fiat exchange-rate?

You'll find there's actually very few things you can do which have low fiat exposure.  That doesn't mean you can't do them - but it does mean you need to be realistic about claims of profits every week.  And it also means you need a strategy to actively assess, manage and reduce the risks that exposure brings.

I don't see this in the OP, maybe you said this somewhere, but what percentage of profits are sent out as dividends?

Also, you do not address when/if/how additional shares will be issued?

Just a quick question for investors.

JMutch (as mentioned in the prior post) has asked me about listing on BitFunder.

Sandstorm having the asset description being what it is, I would like to ask for thoughts, concerns, interests by users to see this listed. (or not..)
And please, fully explain reasoning for not's.

Thanks,
Ukyo

I've been trying to get onto Ukto with not much success. I'm persisting with this at the moment.


Cheers Bithub, confirmed, spreadsheet updated. Should be a good week this week. I've been getting on top of the volatility so far

Just confirming that BitHub purchased 1000 shares for 1btc. Please forward Divs to - 1CFzfqdJjn3bjkZTtQdZU9ZCBWjSh2AFPu

Maybe its possible to launch this fund on bitfunder.com ?

come into the #bitcoin-aus channel, we can probably all just work from home using ventrillo or skype or something. in QLD