SANDSTORM: - A Collective Investment Vehicle for BTC. - - page 17.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

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Quote

Listing on btct is an initial risk which will be solely paid for be me not sandstorm.

Risk ??

~~How do you expect this to succeed when you're unwilling to take any kind of 'risk', especially a $70 listing fee? It's an expense if you want to have a shot at getting it listed.~~

jmutch

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Quote from: furuknap on June 01, 2013, 09:29:14 AM

Quote from: jmutch on June 01, 2013, 09:28:31 AM

This isn't a ponzi. I guess I would think the same thing from an outside perspective. Might have to get friends to buy some shares.

Any way don't expect anyone to get involved before its on an exchange

Why not just list it at BTCT and get it over with?

.b

This is definitely key to the success of this project. This is something I plan to do shortly. But I thought it would be wise to put a post up here two gauge the response. I didn't even tell my friends until just now because i knew the response would be bad

Quote from: burnside on June 01, 2013, 10:19:36 AM

I'm not sure how helpful this is, but if your fund is operating on btct.co you can turn on a publicly viewable profile in the account settings. It will give you a URL where you can send people to verify any btct.co assets your fund is holding.

Cheers.

Cheers burnside, at last something constructive. Transparency may as well start now. This is my trading profile at btct.co:

https://btct.co/api/act?key=dee683c843fc0ff4c39bf9b745d3ec9b0e9617262e656d58f958d4ef30fe9edc
I got 5 "real shares which could be confirmed by Friedcat or Gyom.

And about 8 BTC worth of shares over at bitfunder.

This wealth has been created by mining with a single 5870 last year and through trading and investing those coins. It was first a hobby now i'm serious about it. Just recently sold a BFL preorder for $5000 so i have the profit from that which i consider BTC funds.

Quote from: ldrgn on June 01, 2013, 10:28:03 AM

Quote from: jmutch on June 01, 2013, 09:28:31 AM

This isn't a ponzi.

So how do you reconcile "This isn't a ponzi." with "weekly dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings"? What am I missing here?

I don't understand the question

Quote from: Deprived on June 01, 2013, 10:41:07 AM

Quote from: furuknap on June 01, 2013, 09:29:14 AM

Quote from: jmutch on June 01, 2013, 09:28:31 AM

This isn't a ponzi. I guess I would think the same thing from an outside perspective. Might have to get friends to buy some shares.

Any way don't expect anyone to get involved before its on an exchange

Why not just list it at BTCT and get it over with?

.b

Because he needs to sell 5 BTC worth of shares first to pay the listing fee.

And that's what's wrong with this (same thing that's been obviously wrong with a bunch of similar attempts to start funds). There's no sign of any of the profits the issuer claims to have made being invested in the fund. Which leaves only two possibilities;

1. The issuer doesn't have any funds. That would suggest either he doesn't make profit OR he can't manage his own finances. Neither of which is a good advertisement for running an investment fund.
2. He's investing his own cash elsewhere. Which means either a conflict of interest (if he's doing same thing with his own cash in parallel then which do you think will get priority on buys/sells?) or that he believes this isn't as good an invetsment as whatever he's doing with his own funds.

If someone starts a fund I expect to see some of their own cash/assets already in it - preferably verifiable - to show that they a) aren't broke and b) have some skin in the game.

I'm planning to go apply for btct.co. You assume I would charge this to the company. This is a false assumption. Listing on btct is an initial risk which will be solely paid for be me not sandstorm. Right now I have 60 BTC which i would like to allocate to buying 66% of Sandstorm IPO. If i did this wouldn't it feed the idea of a ponzi scheme?

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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Because he might not have 5 BTC - he's signing up to PowerCoin giveaways which are worth like $0.02 total.

Can't also invest $10 into a domain name and uses a @hotmail email. Sign me up!

furuknap

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Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: Deprived on June 01, 2013, 10:41:07 AM

Quote from: furuknap on June 01, 2013, 09:29:14 AM

Why not just list it at BTCT and get it over with?

.b

Because he needs to sell 5 BTC worth of shares first to pay the listing fee.

That's exactly my point. A 5BTC~$750 listing fee is peanuts if this fund is really going to handle 10'BTC so I don't see why he can't just upfront that payment and add a clause like 'startup expenses to the tune of up to 10BTC including listing fee will be taken out of the dividends' or something like that.

.b

Deprived

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on June 01, 2013, 10:56:52 AM

Which is exactly what I did. Throughout the early stages I held up to 30% of the fund.

It's what I did as well - paid listing fee myself and have never held less than 40% of the fund (currently hold a bit over half of the main fund and over a third of the 250 BTC-worth of bonds issued).

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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Which is exactly what I did. Throughout the early stages I held up to 30% of the fund.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: furuknap on June 01, 2013, 09:29:14 AM

Quote from: jmutch on June 01, 2013, 09:28:31 AM

This isn't a ponzi. I guess I would think the same thing from an outside perspective. Might have to get friends to buy some shares.

Any way don't expect anyone to get involved before its on an exchange

Why not just list it at BTCT and get it over with?

.b

Because he needs to sell 5 BTC worth of shares first to pay the listing fee.

And that's what's wrong with this (same thing that's been obviously wrong with a bunch of similar attempts to start funds). There's no sign of any of the profits the issuer claims to have made being invested in the fund. Which leaves only two possibilities;

1. The issuer doesn't have any funds. That would suggest either he doesn't make profit OR he can't manage his own finances. Neither of which is a good advertisement for running an investment fund.
2. He's investing his own cash elsewhere. Which means either a conflict of interest (if he's doing same thing with his own cash in parallel then which do you think will get priority on buys/sells?) or that he believes this isn't as good an invetsment as whatever he's doing with his own funds.

If someone starts a fund I expect to see some of their own cash/assets already in it - preferably verifiable - to show that they a) aren't broke and b) have some skin in the game.

ldrgn

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Activity: 118

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Quote from: jmutch on June 01, 2013, 09:28:31 AM

This isn't a ponzi.

So how do you reconcile "This isn't a ponzi." with "weekly dividends of at least 1% of the capital gathered from public offerings"? What am I missing here?

burnside

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1006

Lead Blockchain Developer

I'm not sure how helpful this is, but if your fund is operating on btct.co you can turn on a publicly viewable profile in the account settings. It will give you a URL where you can send people to verify any btct.co assets your fund is holding.

Cheers.

furuknap

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: jmutch on June 01, 2013, 09:28:31 AM

This isn't a ponzi. I guess I would think the same thing from an outside perspective. Might have to get friends to buy some shares.

Any way don't expect anyone to get involved before its on an exchange

Why not just list it at BTCT and get it over with?

.b

jmutch

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

This isn't a ponzi. I guess I would think the same thing from an outside perspective. Might have to get friends to buy some shares.

Any way don't expect anyone to get involved before its on an exchange

Factory

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Activity: 259

Merit: 250

Scam.

miTgiB

full member

Activity: 251

Merit: 100

Du hast

Quote from: jmutch on June 01, 2013, 07:51:53 AM

This isn't a short term thing for me i guess i'll just have to prove my integrity over time.

The long scam

danieldaniel

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Activity: 854

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Quote from: jmutch on June 01, 2013, 08:02:48 AM

Nice. That is a long time ago

I've been a part of the community for 1.5+ years and I think this is a ponzi, too!

jmutch

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Nice. That is a long time ago

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

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I just checked my email, I registered on Gox at least before 6/24/11 (probably a few months earlier, Gox didn't send registration confirmation emails by then). Yes, I witnessed the infamous hack. Teh provez:

Code:

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	id 52FF842DE5A; Fri, 24 Jun 2011 07:45:30 +0000 (GMT)
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Mt.Gox] Account recovery request
From: Mt.Gox account recovery service 
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:45:30 +0900
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Message-Id: <[email protected]>

Dear user,=0A=0AYour account recovery request has been updated.=0A=0APle=
ase follow this link (the same as in the previous email) to see your rec=
overy request status, if it was successful or not.=0A=0Ahttps://claim.mt=
gox.com/?claim_id=3Dc1d57ca2-c0ac-4eb4-a4e5-018b7922dc8f&claim_code=3DTV=
XLC7JCXRB4NB9EST24GUH777A5GTMY=0A=0A=0ABest regards,=0AThe Mt.Gox team=
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 of the form on https://claim.mtgox.com/ and verification by our team

jmutch

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on June 01, 2013, 07:45:53 AM

"I know this does look like a ponzi scheme and there is no way for me to prove that it's not. I can only offer my assurances that this is not a ponzi scheme"

Quote from: Currin Trading, EVE Online Ponzi First Hand Account

I replied, "there's really no way to verify this. That's why I always recommend that people only invest what they feel comfortable with, and that varies from person to person."

You only started posting a week ago. Did you SERIOUSLY think about trying your luck at copying Currin Trading?

Quote

Young characters are either n00bs or alts. I was a n00b. But I decided it would be better to be considered an alt than a n00b

Thanks for the feedback. This isn't a short term thing for me i guess i'll just have to prove my integrity over time.

I got one up on you trade fortress i been a part of the community for longer. Wink

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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"I know this does look like a ponzi scheme and there is no way for me to prove that it's not. I can only offer my assurances that this is not a ponzi scheme"

Quote from: Currin Trading, EVE Online Ponzi First Hand Account

I replied, "there's really no way to verify this. That's why I always recommend that people only invest what they feel comfortable with, and that varies from person to person."

You only started posting a week ago. Did you SERIOUSLY think about trying your luck at copying Currin Trading?

Quote

Young characters are either n00bs or alts. I was a n00b. But I decided it would be better to be considered an alt than a n00b

Kthnx bye, we've actually seen ponzis before (ie pirate, obsi, whatever), pulling another one isn't going to work.

jmutch

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Activity: 196

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I plan to use the same techniques as I do now to maintain the profits.

I know this does look like a ponzi scheme and there is no way for me to prove that it's not. I can only offer my assurances that this is not a ponzi scheme

I've been a part of the bitcoin community for over a year now. I hope that experience counts for something

furuknap

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Topic: SANDSTORM: - A Collective Investment Vehicle for BTC. - - page 17. (Read 35774 times)