Topic: Say no to maximalism - page 6. (Read 2496 times)

The memecoin debate is actually interesting, I think.

I tend to support the assumption that they increase the awareness of the crypto space, as they're a "fun way" to enter a world which often is associated with nerdy geeks and wannabe pro traderz At least this should be true for memecoins like Doge which are not simply a tool to enrich their founders. So in theory users could "trickle" into the crypto space and eventually will "land" in the arms of the safest and biggest one, Bitcoin.

The memecoin wave which started (?) with Ordinals, (or at least I'm aware of it since then), where the creators let random people "mint" coins until a certain limit, however is economically totally useless and very prone to scams, as nobody knows how many coins were already minted by the creator as he can use the number of addresses he likes and thus fake an "even" distribution and high popularity. Only few coins really circulate and that makes price manipulation to the upside easy. Even a premined memecoin (with transparent tokenomics) is probably often fairer.

These practices of course lead to disappointment and so I can understand the opinion that memecoins are actually harmful, too.

I'd like to read research about that issue: do memecoins enrich the crypto ecosystem or not? While I have found some papers on Google Scholar about the "co-explosivity" in price (i.e. that Bitcoin and memecoins tends to "bubble" at the same time, and Bitcoin price unidirectionally seems to influence memecoin prices) but nothing really on a longer-lasting influence of memecoins on Bitcoin adoption. An interesting find was instead this study, where memecoins were found to be a possible "hedge" for Bitcoin crashes 

See PDF of study here

This study which explores behavioral patterns on social media which may influence memecoins, meme stocks and Bitcoin prices may also be interesting but is not freely accessible.

Investing is "inherently unsafe" too. Any investment can lose money. And any bet can win money.

Buying Bitcoin or any other digital currency is speculation. You can have good or bad reasons for doing it, but barring your ability to determine the future, you ultimately never know what will happen.


Every gamble involves a decision. Do you think this horse will run faster? Or Mbappe will score? Or Harris will win the election? Then you place your bet. It's a losing battle trying to determine what is "smart investing" versus "dumb gambling" in some universal way because there will always be exceptions in either direction.

If they amount to the same thing, then you're talking about "gambling safety", which doesn't make sense. Gambling is inherently unsafe, as the odds are always in favor of the house.

No, these terms are opposites. An investment involves decision making whereas a gamble does not.

Spoken like a true Bitcoin Maximalist!

Ltc fes are cheap because the network is not congested, the network is not congested because the capacity is enough for the 10k-200k transactions they are doing daily and can handle even 1 million a day.If you apply the same logic to the fees in Bitcoin coming down is because nobody is using it right now, right?
Bth doge and LTF have acted like flood controls lately, taking a lot of pressure from BTC, exactly because they are cheap and can deal with a ton of transactions.


The only way to agree with you on this one is to think of it like Ponzi schemes will make victims understand that there is no such thing as unlimited money and stick to stocks and traditional investments, so yeah, meme coins help Bitcoin just as Ponzi schemes help banks!

Memecoins are actually a less-than-zero-sum game as the most successful ones are run by professional scammers who simply delete value out of crypto and put it back into fiat. A thousand new normies need to be onboarded to make up for one good memecoin, like the Caitlyn Jenner coin for instance. Already forgot what it was called, seems like a millions years ago already in terms of the life cycles of these coins (they're actually tokens and not coins but nobody cares anymore).

The value of the memecoin is actually dependent on two things: marketing (first and foremost) and memetic staying power (a distant second). A really good idea might get to a multi-million-dollar market cap with average marketing, but a really dumb idea can get to a billion with great marketing.

Take WIF for example. Utterly stupid in every sense of the word, $1.6 bil market cap, millions traded every day. But for whatever reason they have a perfect marketing machine, and its still up 900% since it launched at the end of last year.

The word "investing" and the word "gambling" really amount to the same thing. In both cases people are buying something in hopes of a gain. Getting inside people's heads as to why they are buying XYZ is endlessly complicated. You should just accept that people invest/gamble/etc. whatever they feel like buying for a million different reasons. You have your rational and they have theirs.

I've lived long enough to understand that I don't have all of the answers, and a vibrant market with lots of opinions--including very "wrong" opinions--is critical to grow an overall market.

Even, risks will occur in any type of investment, whether in crypto with Bitcoin or memecoins.
People who say "memecoins are just unsafe junk coins with a lot of manipulation", of course they are not aware that DOGE exists until now and manipulation can be done by anyone, but not for the long term.
I even buy and hold Bitcoin and also have a number of top Memecoins that I think will make huge profits.

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The top altcoins are the best choice, but of course it also needs research if it is going to be used as a long-term investment.
Some of the top altcoins are now hype and have a lot of fans, but don't get complacent with altcoins, because Bitcoin will affect all altcoins all of a sudden.

If that is options is in discussions then provably that there's no question that its no good to believe only on bitcoin since there's an alternative asset like what you mention is a good investment to choice.

But if we talk about the whole crypto space then I guess there's no coin or token would surpass the supremacy of bitcoin. So can't blame those people to became a bitcoin maximalist especially if they don't want to deal with huge risk brought by other altcoins.

I really understand the point of OP since somehow we can see lots of opportunity if we just do good investment approach especially on top altcoins.

How about they stop "investing" in memecoins? You can't expect both safety and massive gains without any risk. You either accept the risk of investing in a pyramid scheme, or you avoid dog coins that promise to make you rich. Sounds fair to me.

Memecoins with no utility are essentially zero-sum games, where every gain is perfectly balanced by an equal loss.

But not all, and not at the moment. This supports my argument that having a market of various cryptocurrencies with different features and trade-offs is a net benefit. Do you think encrypting transaction amounts could lead to an undetected inflation bug? Fine, then don't risk Bitcoin with that. We have Monero if you ever need it.

OK, there's nothing stopping developers and researchers from building and developing other projects. I'm merely saying that with the network effects that Bitcoin has, all those other cryptocurrencies that you posted will either lose market value or will simply never be as dominant as Bitcoin. Plus some of those technologies will be implemented in Bitcoin, either off-chain, or on-chain, or side-chain in its own time and out of necessity.

There probably will merely be 5 blockchains existing in 20 years. The rest will either be dead or forgotten.

If you spend time on the WO thread, you will find a lot of Bitcoin Maximalists who cannot tolerate alts. I don't know why, but if someone posts something out of Bitcoin in the WO thread, they get attacked by Bitcoin Maximalist. It's probably because the thread is all about Bitcoin, and they don't want to see off-topic things. But, as you may know, the WO thread is different, and many people have a lot of off-topics, so the thread is not moderated anymore. I don't have a problem with Bitcoin maximalists; I believe I was similar at some point. But I don't like the way they treat other people.

I want to ask if FTT has its own blockchain? Does it have Dapps or any projects built on it or is it used specifically for the FTX exchange?I don't know if it is a shitcoin or not because it will depend on each person's judgment, but comparing it to FTT is lame and unfair to BNB. Not to mention it has a market capitalization in the top 5 on CMC and is also one of the layer 1s that has existed and developed strongly in the market for many years.

Likewise, there is no guarantee that binance will last forever and not collapse but looking at how Binance serves the community with what FTX did, there is a huge difference. As for whether they are a good long-term investment or not, it will all depend on the individual as each person needs to be responsible with their money.

Nah, BNB is one of shitcoin that most people should be aware of, it's clear BNB has no purpose except encouraging people to use Binance. Once Binance get hacked or bankrupt, BNB will gone. Just like FTX got hacked and now people who invest in FTT are ended up miserable.

Bitcoin itself is an experimental project, so it's need to adapt and improve from time to time.

I love the op's argument about the Austrian school of economics and embracing the free market. I agree that the spirit of financial freedom and decentralization presupposes that there won't be any 'tyranny of Bitcoin', with it being supported and prioritized no matter what.
I still believe that Bitcoin is the best and most reliable crypto, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't hear out alternative opinions and pay attention to major developments.

I completely agree with you about maximalism and Bitcoin. It is harmful to only believe in one way and not consider other ideas or new information. This goes against innovation and progress. Some Bitcoin fans only see good in Bitcoin and ignore strengths of other cryptocurrencies like Monero and Litecoin. But true support for Bitcoin means seeing its weaknesses and being open to improvement.Being more open minded will help cryptocurrency world move forward. And this way will increase our knowledge too. If we will consider only one so how we will learn or understand other one? That's why I like your Idea.

This relates to everyday life where ego and the mindset of wanting to win alone are still applied by some people.
I don't know if it is included in Maximalism or not, but having a mindset like that is an act against the logic of many people. This tendency will limit the thinking of people who have ideas to develop and the intellect does not function properly.
Regarding the forum, it is relative and may be based on the mindset and how to see the problem from which point of view because the reality that we feel is impossible to please many people. The positive side that I see is that the forum has the freedom to think and we can openly discuss things more rationally.

For the problem of truth, we can test it at the level of knowledge, not only based on references written by others, this is fun for those of us who adhere to the system of freedom.
Except when talking more specifically about techniques because it must be based on the maturity of knowledge so as not to cause mistakes.
When talking about Bitcoin, it is complex, where we will talk about the essence of seeking profit in the investment process and so on, of course it will give rise to many arguments based on the writer and those who read it.

What you've said is the truth, and the fact that there are numerous pump and dump Alts leave some investors with the mind-set that investing on other Cryptocurrency is a waste of time, well that impression is not quite right given that their are still some very good Alts that doesn't fall under the category of get rich quick schemes, pump and dumps, shitcoins and so forth, for instance ETH, SOL, BNB and lots very good Alts that could still serve for a long-term investment purpose. Bitcoin still remains the best Crypto assets so far, it's given investors a benefit of doubt concerning it's potential of yielding them good profits over time and has done that in several circles, that alone has triggered wide spread of investment on it across the globe but that doesn't mean that diversifying to other assets when an investor has accumulated enough Bitcoin shouldn't be entertained, Bitcoin is not the only crypto asset for investment purposes infact there shouldn't be a debate on that cause there are still very good Alts.

Ordinals LTC (supports Runes).
OrdinalsLite
Liteverse Marketplace

Should be the reason for the spikes in the numbers of transactions you can see on Bitinfocharts in late 2023 and early 2024. Now on both BTC and LTC the Runes/Ordinals activity has decreased drastically.

Second sentence is true, first is not. The number of transactions is stable at about half of Bitcoin's transactions. The current value was 192k txes/day. For a coin which has about 1/100 of Bitcoin's market cap this is quite good. Or is Bitcoin's usage "nobody * 2"?

LTC is also the coin most used at Bitpay.

On the link also you see that LTC's transaction throughput is continuously growing. In it's "perceived" heyday before 2020, much less people were using it. It's quite funny actually, when everybody was talking about "arise chiggun", LTC's chain was quite empty ...

I believe LTC is quite established now even if the price performance was indeed relatively poor last year. Doge too as the "historic and most decentralized memecoin", and XMR of course too (which is performing quite well price-wise lately). And this is quite a good thing. We have three quite different chains which can serve as a "backup" for Bitcoin, even if Bitcoin ran into problems (e.g. due to a critical bug), a recovery is more likely if there are such "backup chains" which can even in theory work, for example, as a Bitcoin sidechain.

I would also not be sad about more decentralized chains competing with these three main decentralized altcoins, but if we go down the rankings on CMC, Coingecko etc., after XMR (and perhaps Kaspa) there is a big "gap", all coins are centralized or semi-centralized until #200 approximately where Dash, Flux, ARRR and Ravencoin reside. (Edit: See also this thread in the altcoin forum where I list all coins I consider "decentralized" in the top #300 approximately and most which are ranked lower.)