SC Releases his 'white paper', hilarity ensues - page 3.

Inedible

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

What doesn't kill you only makes you sicker!

Quote from: localhost on October 12, 2011, 02:57:29 PM

1) I don't think the security wallets release any coins more than what they generate.
2) no
3) probably - I think they can just spend money by themselves indeed
4) I'm sure he gets 5% (that's what I read a while ago on solidcointalk). Not too sure about the other 5%, that's new for me too.
5) Yeah, the 18.9M limit was in SC 1. In SC 2 there's no limit on the total amount of coins.

My understanding is that the security wallets can't spend money without first going through CoinHunter's wallet first.

Ah, right - with no limit on SC2 then I guess that's why CoinHunter will get paid forever.

Not sure a 5%-10% on the system would fly but I guess for others, that's an acceptable cost for the benefits of SC.

localhost

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: Inedible on October 12, 2011, 02:47:27 PM

This is really the first time I've read up on SolidCoin so apologies for the daft questions but:

1) How does CoinHunter get SC1.2M every year forever? Does it not stop when the 'security wallets' have released all their coins?

2) Does each of the 12 or so Trusted Nodes pay CoinHunter money? (I.e. he gets this 12 times over)

3) Can the Trusted Nodes money be spent like ordinary SolidCoins once transferred over to CoinHunter's wallet?

4) Does he really get 10% of everything that's mined (SC1.9M)?

5) If the Trusted Nodes monies can be transferred to CoinHunter's wallet, doesn't this mean the SolidCoin economy is massively larger than SC18.9M?

1) I don't think the security wallets release any coins more than what they generate.
2) no
3) probably - I think they can just spend money by themselves indeed
4) I'm sure he gets 5% (that's what I read a while ago on solidcointalk). Not too sure about the other 5%, that's new for me too.
5) Yeah, the 18.9M limit was in SC 1. In SC 2 there's no limit on the total amount of coins.

grod

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: Lolcust on October 12, 2011, 02:27:06 PM

P.S.:
Perhaps a bit of a touchy subject, so feel free to decline answer, but are you currently a resident of the United States?
Just a bit of less-than-scientific statistics gathering on my part...

Yup, been living in various parts of the US forever.

Inedible

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

What doesn't kill you only makes you sicker!

Quote from: ?? on ??

Since there are no design docs, or source code I am kinda working in the dark but here are my assumptions.

1. "Normal" (odd) block every 3 1.5 minutes. Right?
2. A "wealth transfer block" - WTB (even) follows each normal block. Right?
3. You personal gain 3.2 coins per WTB. Half of that is from the TN (trusted nodes) and half is minted out of thin air (MOTA). Right?
4. Not sure why you split it up. Maybe to obfuscate further?

If those 4 assumptions are valid then it is
So that 60*24*365/1.5 * 3.2 = 1,120,000 SC siphoned from SC economy into your personal wallet annually into perpetuity.

About right?

Of course at current difficulty imbalance it is many magnitudes more.

I will update my post above (again) w/ correct math & clarification.

This is really the first time I've read up on SolidCoin so apologies for the daft questions but:

1) How does CoinHunter get SC1.2M every year forever? Does it not stop when the 'security wallets' have released all their coins?

2) Does each of the 12 or so Trusted Nodes pay CoinHunter money? (I.e. he gets this 12 times over)

3) Can the Trusted Nodes money be spent like ordinary SolidCoins once transferred over to CoinHunter's wallet?

4) Does he really get 10% of everything that's mined (SC1.9M)?

5) If the Trusted Nodes monies can be transferred to CoinHunter's wallet, doesn't this mean the SolidCoin economy is massively larger than SC18.9M?

johnj

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: Lolcust on October 12, 2011, 02:35:26 PM

I forgot to add to the above:

SC2 has huge communication issues.

They keep going on "everything is fine, situation is UNDER CONTROL, nothing to see here" when it is pretty obvious that their diff got horribly borked early on and they have weird "chain hiccups" which have so far received zero public technical comment from anyone.

Just an update

SC 2.0 has been released for ~40 hours. It's on block 23000. The current block generation is ~25s, only 27% of the target. This is after 66 difficulty adjustments. For a total of 41k funneld into CH's personal wallet.

BitterTea

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 252

Quote from: Lolcust on October 12, 2011, 02:35:26 PM

I forgot to add to the above:

SC2 has huge communication issues.

They keep going on "everything is fine, situation is UNDER CONTROL, nothing to see here" when it is pretty obvious that their diff got horribly borked early on and they have weird "chain hiccups" which have so far received zero public technical comment from anyone.

That's not "communication issues", that's propaganda.

Lolcust

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 11

Hillariously voracious

I forgot to add to the above:

SC2 has huge communication issues.

They keep going on "everything is fine, situation is UNDER CONTROL, nothing to see here" when it is pretty obvious that their diff got horribly borked early on and they have weird "chain hiccups" which have so far received zero public technical comment from anyone.

BitterTea

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 252

Quote from: Lolcust on October 12, 2011, 02:13:21 PM

The problems with SC2 are not "premine".

Well, a big problem with SC2 is that it was premined to a much larger extent than previously disclosed. At least all the previous premines (that I know of) have been honest from the beginning (had to be, they disclosed source codes).

I don't like premined block chains, but I don't think there's anything wrong with in as long as it's disclosed.

Lolcust

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 11

Hillariously voracious

Quote from: grod on October 12, 2011, 02:20:08 PM

You say that, but the shit really didn't start hitting the fan until the 13+ million coin premine was disclosed. That's when SC instantly took a 50% haircut on the exchanges while TBX rallied. At the moment your pig at the through exhibition is less offensive than that of a demonstrated liar, but only $2000 dollars is buying into both combined. Congratulations!

Actually, shit started hitting the fan when BTCEx posted his pwnage thread and the fan really spun up when a forum mod reversed his judgment on validity of BTCEx's claims and acknowledged the attack as real.

But I guess we're running into some kind of "subjectivity in sorta-kinda ill-formalized fundamental analysis of exotic neither-money-nor-asset cryptothingie markets" problem at this point Wink

P.S.:
Perhaps a bit of a touchy subject, so feel free to decline answer, but are you currently a resident of the United States?
Just a bit of less-than-scientific statistics gathering on my part...

grod

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: Lolcust on October 12, 2011, 02:13:21 PM

Meh, Tenebrix is doing well given zero blawg and twitter support, zero prelaunch hype, and a "competitor" that has both.

For the love of Cthulhu, what is it about some certain people and pre-mines?
it's like some kind of deep affront to you guys, on a level that seems to go beyond economic reasoning.

The problems with SC2 are not "premine".

The problems are, in no particular order:

weird chicanery happening to the diff, the "peer to pig" architecture itself, absolutely insane obfuscation going on in the "pig node" part of things, blatant electricity theft, and, perhaps, most of all, the amazing invisible source code.

In fact, given the above, SC2 is probably doing better than it should according to "strong efficient market" kind of reasoning.

You say that, but the shit really didn't start hitting the fan until the 13+ million coin premine was disclosed. That's when SC instantly took a 50% haircut on the exchanges while TBX rallied. At the moment your pig at the through exhibition is less offensive than that of a demonstrated liar, but only $2000 dollars is buying into both combined. Congratulations!

Lolcust

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 11

Hillariously voracious

Meh, Tenebrix is doing well given zero blawg and twitter support, zero prelaunch hype, and a "competitor" that has both.

For the love of Cthulhu, what is it about some certain people and pre-mines?
it's like some kind of deep affront to you guys, on a level that seems to go beyond economic reasoning.

The problems with SC2 are not "premine".

The problems are, in no particular order:

weird chicanery happening to the diff
the "peer to pig" architecture itself
absolutely insane obfuscation going on in the "pig node" part of things
blatant electricity theft
and, perhaps, most of all, the amazing invisible source code.

In fact, given the above, SC2 is probably doing better than it should according to "strong efficient market" kind of reasoning.

grod

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: Lolcust on October 12, 2011, 01:54:57 PM

The Invisible Hand, flipping off CoinHunter

Tenebrix are roughly at partity with SC on btce for both price and volume. Lots of flipping off to go around for both massively premined scamchains.

localhost

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: johnj on October 12, 2011, 01:53:40 PM

Quote from: localhost on October 12, 2011, 01:52:08 PM

Mkay... maybe forget what I said then... Although my main concern about this is that he's saying he already gave away millions of coins to SC fanboys. This leaves me with a tough choice about how to call this ccurrency: TaxCoin? RSFriendsCoin? RSClubCoin? FanCoin? So many things to choose from...

ScamCoin is my favorite, I'm pushing for CH to receive the scammer label after this obvious bait-and-switch.

Yeah but that's too generic and overused IMO.

Bobnova

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

So what I want to know is, if only supernodes can do even numbered blocks and they're always difficulty 1, why were even numbered blocks taking less time during the low difficulty minefest?

Lolcust

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 11

Hillariously voracious

The Invisible Hand, flipping off CoinHunter

johnj

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: localhost on October 12, 2011, 01:52:08 PM

Quote from: johnj on October 12, 2011, 01:41:25 PM

Here

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 11:24:00 PM

Quote from: Red on October 11, 2011, 11:20:32 PM

Question, for CoinHunter. Who runs the trusted peers? Are they all yours?

I have control of one of the accounts currently, I'm not sure if I will end up with any, just for now it's easier this way. I won't say how many are in the wild yet but we are increasing the presence on the network of them.

The people I'm giving them to are ardent SC supporters, who have families, assets and things to lose if they do anything inappropriate with it, combined with having excellent knowledge about system running.

Mkay... maybe forget what I said then... Although my main concern about this is that he's saying he already gave away millions of coins to SC fanboys. This leaves me with a tough choice about how to call this ccurrency: TaxCoin? RSFriendsCoin? RSClubCoin? FanCoin? So many things to choose from...

ScamCoin is my favorite, I'm pushing for CH to receive the scammer label after this obvious bait-and-switch.

localhost

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: johnj on October 12, 2011, 01:41:25 PM

Here

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 11:24:00 PM

Quote from: Red on October 11, 2011, 11:20:32 PM

Question, for CoinHunter. Who runs the trusted peers? Are they all yours?

I have control of one of the accounts currently, I'm not sure if I will end up with any, just for now it's easier this way. I won't say how many are in the wild yet but we are increasing the presence on the network of them.

The people I'm giving them to are ardent SC supporters, who have families, assets and things to lose if they do anything inappropriate with it, combined with having excellent knowledge about system running.

Mkay... maybe forget what I said then... Although my main concern about this is that he's saying he already gave away millions of coins to SC fanboys. This leaves me with a tough choice about how to call this ccurrency: TaxCoin? RSFriendsCoin? RSClubCoin? FanCoin? GiveawayCoin? So many things to choose from...

johnj

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: localhost on October 12, 2011, 01:37:51 PM

Quote from: sd on October 12, 2011, 01:25:07 PM

Quote from: grod on October 12, 2011, 12:23:29 PM

Quote from: sd on October 12, 2011, 11:40:24 AM

Quote from: johnj on October 12, 2011, 11:22:25 AM

Agreed. Threatening the lives of people involved with SC *is* in poor taste.

However, CH opened up this door himself when he made threats upon the SC 'super-node' holders. "They're people with families, assets, things to lose...."

It was a joke, and I did see CoinHunters comment you quoted above in the original context. I'm pretty sure he was talking about legal action, not some kind of criminal punishment! He is a scammer not a mobster.

Legal action? Really? Legal action?

That was the impression I got. I'm not trying to defend him and I never said he wasn't a delusional nutcase. If he can't pay lawyers he can't pay contract killers either so don't worry about his threats, legal or otherwise.

Jeez... you guys have too much imagination Cheesy

I think all he meant was that the super-node holders with a million of SC couldn't afford to lose them. I'm not sure this is right though...
On a side note, where are you quoting the sentence I underlined from? Can't find it as is in this thread nor in the whitepaper.

Here

Quote from: CoinHunter on October 11, 2011, 11:24:00 PM

Quote from: Red on October 11, 2011, 11:20:32 PM

Question, for CoinHunter. Who runs the trusted peers? Are they all yours?

I have control of one of the accounts currently, I'm not sure if I will end up with any, just for now it's easier this way. I won't say how many are in the wild yet but we are increasing the presence on the network of them.

The people I'm giving them to are ardent SC supporters, who have families, assets and things to lose if they do anything inappropriate with it, combined with having excellent knowledge about system running.

localhost

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: sd on October 12, 2011, 01:25:07 PM

Quote from: grod on October 12, 2011, 12:23:29 PM

Quote from: sd on October 12, 2011, 11:40:24 AM

Quote from: johnj on October 12, 2011, 11:22:25 AM

Agreed. Threatening the lives of people involved with SC *is* in poor taste.

However, CH opened up this door himself when he made threats upon the SC 'super-node' holders. "They're people with families, assets, things to lose...."

It was a joke, and I did see CoinHunters comment you quoted above in the original context. I'm pretty sure he was talking about legal action, not some kind of criminal punishment! He is a scammer not a mobster.

Legal action? Really? Legal action?

That was the impression I got. I'm not trying to defend him and I never said he wasn't a delusional nutcase. If he can't pay lawyers he can't pay contract killers either so don't worry about his threats, legal or otherwise.

Jeez... you guys have too much imagination Cheesy

I think all he meant was that the super-node holders with a million of SC couldn't afford to lose them. I'm not sure this is right though...
On a side note, where are you quoting the sentence I underlined from? Can't find it as is in this thread nor in the whitepaper.

sd

hero member

Activity: 730

Merit: 500

Quote from: grod on October 12, 2011, 12:23:29 PM

Quote from: sd on October 12, 2011, 11:40:24 AM

Quote from: johnj on October 12, 2011, 11:22:25 AM

Agreed. Threatening the lives of people involved with SC *is* in poor taste.

However, CH opened up this door himself when he made threats upon the SC 'super-node' holders. "They're people with families, assets, things to lose...."

It was a joke, and I did see CoinHunters comment you quoted above in the original context. I'm pretty sure he was talking about legal action, not some kind of criminal punishment! He is a scammer not a mobster.

Legal action? Really? Legal action?

That was the impression I got. I'm not trying to defend him and I never said he wasn't a delusional nutcase. If he can't pay lawyers he can't pay contract killers either so don't worry about his threats, legal or otherwise.

Topic: SC Releases his 'white paper', hilarity ensues - page 3. (Read 13187 times)