Topic: scenarios if US Govt tried to take down bitcoin? (Read 11940 times)
You do realize that a 51% can be fixed?
mining these days is mostly centralized, you have few pools that have the most of the network hash power, p2pool is not that popular which really bothers me, so an attacker (could be US government or any one else) in has to achieve that 51% in order to start his own fork and do a big mess.
the easiest way and most efficient is to heavily DDOS the biggest pools, they say that they are DDOS protected but 100 DDOS protection is a myth, so lets say the attacker can take the biggest 3 pools (BTCguild, GHash.IO, Eligius) this is equal to 66% of the network hash rate.
so the technical aspect of the scenario is possible, but the question that popup is why ? if I have that kind of power I would just mine and make money, because such operation will cost millions of dollars, who wants to invest (lose) millions of dollars to do such thing ?
the million dollar question is what the government and big organizations think of Bitcoin ? in which position Bitcoin stands ? is bitcoin a threat for them ? will they ever regulate bitcoin ?
it is a serious matter that should be discussed but when you have the answers to these questions it will be easier to imagine the 51% attack.
the easiest way and most efficient is to heavily DDOS the biggest pools, they say that they are DDOS protected but 100 DDOS protection is a myth, so lets say the attacker can take the biggest 3 pools (BTCguild, GHash.IO, Eligius) this is equal to 66% of the network hash rate.
so the technical aspect of the scenario is possible, but the question that popup is why ? if I have that kind of power I would just mine and make money, because such operation will cost millions of dollars, who wants to invest (lose) millions of dollars to do such thing ?
the million dollar question is what the government and big organizations think of Bitcoin ? in which position Bitcoin stands ? is bitcoin a threat for them ? will they ever regulate bitcoin ?
it is a serious matter that should be discussed but when you have the answers to these questions it will be easier to imagine the 51% attack.
The biggest problem is the mistake that was made not to allow normal computer processors to mine efficiently. If this was made, then millions of people would have their miners running. With millions of users mining, you could never easily take over 51% of the market. But instead, the mining is designed in such a way that you can develop specific cards that make normal computer invalid. What happens then? Well, all the mining is centralized to those few who have these cards. And it's much easier to target.
What would be the most likely form(s) of attack?
This site always shows the 51% attack costs:http://coinometrics.com/bitcoin/brix
but part of the ASICs they could acquire for free by seizing them.
At this point, this could be done by controlling two largest pools.
Yes, this is a serious risk. If the pool members were blind followers, or individually feel that they have something to gain by sticking in the pool and didn't break off.
Then we all lose. Even them.
Search for Transactions Withholding Attack. BitCON is designed to go to the government.
Also Martin Armstrong picked up on most of the points in my recent writings (except he missed my reasons why BitCON is a ponzi scheme):
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/
See also this related thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3572508
Also Martin Armstrong picked up on most of the points in my recent writings (except he missed my reasons why BitCON is a ponzi scheme):
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/
See also this related thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3572508
Currently USGovt is holding some 180K bitcoin from just silk road? That's more than the Winklevoss ETF.
Search for Transactions Withholding Attack. BitCON is designed to go to the government.
Also Martin Armstrong picked up on most of the points in my recent writings (except he missed my reasons why BitCON is a ponzi scheme):
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/
See also this related thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3572508
Also Martin Armstrong picked up on most of the points in my recent writings (except he missed my reasons why BitCON is a ponzi scheme):
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/
See also this related thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3572508
What would be the most likely form(s) of attack?
This site always shows the 51% attack costs:http://coinometrics.com/bitcoin/brix
but part of the ASICs they could acquire for free by seizing them.
At this point, this could be done by controlling two largest pools.
Yes, this is a serious risk. If the pool members were blind followers, or individually feel that they have something to gain by sticking in the pool and didn't break off.
Then we all lose. Even them.
What would be the most likely form(s) of attack?
This site always shows the 51% attack costs:http://coinometrics.com/bitcoin/brix
but part of the ASICs they could acquire for free by seizing them.
At this point, this could be done by controlling two largest pools.
What would be the most likely form(s) of attack?
This site always shows the 51% attack costs:http://coinometrics.com/bitcoin/brix
but part of the ASICs they could acquire for free by seizing them.
...
Cant buy a handgun in my country.....
Cant buy a handgun in my country.....
Hey, come on over to ours -- we got enough for everyone!
So on crumb world, no one has these rights, except that everyone has them, and they are administered by the psalm 23 government?
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Drink deep of sweet nectar that is my prospectus.
I anoint thine refineries with light sweet crude; thine tank runneth over.
Nay, that drought is too strong for me, it has you imagining me bragging about my owning guns and the right to kill, I suspect hallucinogens or some other paranoia inducing substance. You might want to get yourself checked out before you get checked in.
You do not own a handgun?
I have never said whether I do, or do not, and with great certainty have never bragged about it either way.
Seriously, seek therapy. Trying to make this about me is not going to help you find yourself.
After i have refuted each one of your claims, point-by-point, on this very page, you *tried to make this about me* by derailing this thread and suggesting i seek therapy. One notch above "NO U!"
Refusing to be educated, ignoring facts, flinging ad hominems after being corrected by your betters and then forgetting to thank them ... Why, that's what brought about your sorry state in the first place. I'm afraid therapy can't help you now.
Not even industrial strength Obamacare.
Regarding the handgun tangent: I was confusing you with the user MoonShadow. The two of you, posting in the same thread, were difficult to distinguish for those unversed in the finer points of teabaggery.
So on crumb world, no one has these rights, except that everyone has them, and they are administered by the psalm 23 government?
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Drink deep of sweet nectar that is my prospectus.
I anoint thine refineries with light sweet crude; thine tank runneth over.
Nay, that drought is too strong for me, it has you imagining me bragging about my owning guns and the right to kill, I suspect hallucinogens or some other paranoia inducing substance. You might want to get yourself checked out before you get checked in.
You do not own a handgun?
Cant buy a handgun in my country.....
So on crumb world, no one has these rights, except that everyone has them, and they are administered by the psalm 23 government?
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Drink deep of sweet nectar that is my prospectus.
I anoint thine refineries with light sweet crude; thine tank runneth over.
Nay, that drought is too strong for me, it has you imagining me bragging about my owning guns and the right to kill, I suspect hallucinogens or some other paranoia inducing substance. You might want to get yourself checked out before you get checked in.
You do not own a handgun?
I have never said whether I do, or do not, and with great certainty have never bragged about it either way.
Seriously, seek therapy. Trying to make this about me is not going to help you find yourself.
So on crumb world, no one has these rights, except that everyone has them, and they are administered by the psalm 23 government?
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Drink deep of sweet nectar that is my prospectus.
I anoint thine refineries with light sweet crude; thine tank runneth over.
Nay, that drought is too strong for me, it has you imagining me bragging about my owning guns and the right to kill, I suspect hallucinogens or some other paranoia inducing substance. You might want to get yourself checked out before you get checked in.
You do not own a handgun?
So on crumb world, no one has these rights, except that everyone has them, and they are administered by the psalm 23 government?
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Drink deep of sweet nectar that is my prospectus.
I anoint thine refineries with light sweet crude; thine tank runneth over.
Nay, that drought is too strong for me, it has you imagining me bragging about my owning guns and the right to kill, I suspect hallucinogens or some other paranoia inducing substance. You might want to get yourself checked out before you get checked in.
US have no intention to take it down.
They cannot take it down. Can you take down Internet ?
They cannot take it down. Can you take down Internet ?
Actually the internet can be taken down, it is very unlikely but it is possible even by a small group of hackers. There is also an interesting TED talk where one of the early adopters of the internet was warning of a potential take down, and the need for a backup options.
So on crumb world, no one has these rights, except that everyone has them, and they are administered by the psalm 23 government?
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
This world is your world, NewLiberty. I don't wish you to feel left out.
Drink deep of sweet nectar that is my prospectus.
I anoint thine refineries with light sweet crude; thine tank runneth over.
So on crumb world, no one has these rights, except that everyone has them, and they are administered by the psalm 23 government?
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Your Kool-aide is very strong stuff my friend.
Lol no. I simply pointed out that your claim of governments having "...monopoly on the right to kill, steal and imprison and impoverish" is absurd.
If you would like me to take a position on this, i'd point out that "the governments" may be good for some (things/people) and bad for others. The word "good" needs context, or at least a subject to be meaningful.
(Is killing "good"? A meaningless question. It's good for the killer, ideal when there's killing to be done. For the victim, not so much.)
If you would like me to take a position on this, i'd point out that "the governments" may be good for some (things/people) and bad for others. The word "good" needs context, or at least a subject to be meaningful.
(Is killing "good"? A meaningless question. It's good for the killer, ideal when there's killing to be done. For the victim, not so much.)
OK, I'll bite. Maybe today is the day you teach me something. Who besides the governments have these rights? Or is it that governments don't have them?
You have heard of Max Weber, yes?
You have a curious way of misunderstanding things. Possibly due to getting wasted on your own Kool-Aid. Not sure how much good my teaching would do in your condition, but i suppose it doesn't hurt to try, so here goes:
No one has the right to kill*, steal** or impoverish***, including the government. That's where your logic begins to stray.
Let's take killing.
By killing, i assume you don't mean poisoning rats or slaughtering cows, but rather unjustly murdering human beings. Why "unjustly"? Simply because, under many circumstances, in my beloved land of the free, *you* have the right to murder people. You know this, and own guns designed specifically for that purpose. You have bragged about it on this forum. So i'm surprised you would ask me now who else has the right to kill. *You do.
If my goal was to simply win an argument, the above would be enough. But my goal is to educate and enlighten, so i will address your other claims.
Stealing.
Let's google us up a definition:
"Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it."
By "stealing," i assume you are referring to taxation, a subject addressed by a large body of law & to which your government has explicit legal rights. And which you have explicit legal duty to pay. **Taxation is not theft, it is your government's legal right and your legal duty.
Impoverishment.
Your government wants to impoverish you as much as a cattle rancher wants his cattle to get skinny & sickly -- not at all.
Just like the rancher, you government wants you to be fat, happy and healthy. It wants you to be fruitful and multiply, giving it moar willing milkers to milk and plump beefs to slaughter. If you become impoverished, the whole subject of taxation becomes moot -- collecting taxes on nothing is a fool's errand. ***Your government loves and protects you silly bovines.
The Government is your shepherd; you shall not want.
I make thee to lie down in green pastures:
I leade thee beside the still waters of Money River.
I restore thine credit rating:
I leade thee in the paths of sound business practices for fair taxation's sake.
Yea, though thee walketh through the valley of scammy BTC-denominated securities,
Thee shall fear no evil: for thou art with me;
My rod and my staff they comfort thee.
/lesson
government isn't incompetent. those politicians and bureaucrats know exactly what they're doing - it's just that they don't care enough to do anything about it.. because they are self serving sycophants.
they have all these "backdoor" deals with corporations and interest groups, all while smiling in front of the camera, espousing how they are such willing "public servants."
the difference between a politician and a prostitute is that.. the prostitute can still have some dignity.
they have all these "backdoor" deals with corporations and interest groups, all while smiling in front of the camera, espousing how they are such willing "public servants."
the difference between a politician and a prostitute is that.. the prostitute can still have some dignity.
Lol no. I simply pointed out that your claim of governments having "...monopoly on the right to kill, steal and imprison and impoverish" is absurd.
If you would like me to take a position on this, i'd point out that "the governments" may be good for some (things/people) and bad for others. The word "good" needs context, or at least a subject to be meaningful.
(Is killing "good"? A meaningless question. It's good for the killer, ideal when there's killing to be done. For the victim, not so much.)
If you would like me to take a position on this, i'd point out that "the governments" may be good for some (things/people) and bad for others. The word "good" needs context, or at least a subject to be meaningful.
(Is killing "good"? A meaningless question. It's good for the killer, ideal when there's killing to be done. For the victim, not so much.)
OK, I'll bite. Maybe today is the day you teach me something. Who besides the governments have these rights? Or is it that governments don't have them?
You have heard of Max Weber, yes?
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