scenarios if US Govt tried to take down bitcoin? - page 5.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: crumbs on November 12, 2013, 05:27:17 PM

If the US government finds bitcoin disruptive enough, they will outlaw it, using any of the already mentioned reasons as justification.
1. Once bitcoin becomes illegal in US, the country's trade partners will likely follow suit.
2. Existing bitcoin money exchanges will shutter, tanking the bitcoin dollar price.
3. Money speculators and money launderers, interested in fiat exchange rather than ideology, lose interest.
4. Bitcoin mining, already centralized & commercialized, will become easy prey for law enforcement. Profitability, already shot due to (1), will not justify operating under the radar. Hash rate plummets.
5. Possible protocol/packet filtering at tier-1 provider level, likely unnecessary.
6. Diehards keep the network alive, but with fiat flowing out instead of in, it becomes irrelevant.
TL;DR: Nothing high-tech needs to happen, no 51% attacks, no crypto-cracking.

None of this is likely to happen, i'm not cashing out Cheesy

All of these points are incorrect.
They can't do anything.

vqp

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Quote from: mmitech on November 12, 2013, 05:48:17 AM

the million dollar question is what the government and big organizations think of Bitcoin ? in which position Bitcoin stands ? is bitcoin a threat for them ? will they ever regulate bitcoin ?

it is a serious matter that should be discussed but when you have the answers to these questions it will be easier to imagine the 51% attack.

First, you have to ask who is "the government". Big corporations, capitalists and other criminals including several lawmakers and politicians from all countires in the world sent billions to tax havens for decades. Now the FED and the governments are raining their parade by printing zillions and blocking capital movements. Bitcoin could be seen as a new "haven". And these guys were able to convince DC that wiring money to a dubious corporation in "Cayman Islands" is lawful, I don't doubt that they can lobby DC and Berlin in favor of bitcoin, even if bitcoin is bad for the government is good for the elites that run the show.

vqp

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Quote from: Hawker on November 12, 2013, 07:46:53 AM

A government will spend a few billion dollars on paperclips or prison overtime or endless wasteful projects. The easiest way for any government to take down Bitcoin is to invest a few billion in mining kit and hoard all they produce. They would force up the difficulty while having the ability to flood the market so other miners would be pushed out.

Or they could just buy all Bitcoin. Again, a few billion is peanuts to a government.

Well, I can say that my last bitcoin is gonna cost them ALOT!

jeppe

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They can not take it down as they cant take Torrents down because they are peer to peer and no CEO to arrest

tvbcof

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Quote from: crumbs on November 12, 2013, 05:27:17 PM

If the US government finds bitcoin disruptive enough, they will outlaw it, using any of the already mentioned reasons as justification.
1. Once bitcoin becomes illegal in US, the country's trade partners will likely follow suit.
2. Existing bitcoin money exchanges will shutter, tanking the bitcoin dollar price.
3. Money speculators and money launderers, interested in fiat exchange rather than ideology, lose interest.
4. Bitcoin mining, already centralized & commercialized, will become easy prey for law enforcement. Profitability, already shot due to (1), will not justify operating under the radar. Hash rate plummets.
5. Possible protocol/packet filtering at tier-1 provider level, likely unnecessary.
6. Diehards keep the network alive, but with fiat flowing out instead of in, it becomes irrelevant.

None of this is likely to happen, i'm not cashing out Cheesy

I don't know the likelihood, but I would not expect a significant clamp-down on unauthorized currencies absent a crisis in fiat currency frameworks as well. The latter seems to me to be the most likely inducement for the former as there would be an enormous amount of collateral damage which would be best avoided unless it is the least bad option.

I mention it because to gauge the likely trajectory of Bitcoin (and related efforts) under an attack like this, the disposition of the mainstream monetary framework would probably be playing the largest factor. And I wouldn't anticipate it being all peaches-n-cream in USD land either.

Mike Christ

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Quote from: subcoin on November 12, 2013, 04:52:56 PM

Quote

Yes, I believe it'll take a hit, but I don't believe Bitcoin will be taken down;

Yes, I agree with that too. Also, that no matter what happens Bitcoin will be operational.
However, in peoples' mind torrent'ing music is not the same as torrent'ing money.
From an early age we are taught that doing anything illegal with money is really bad.
Unlike sneaking into a movie or copying your friends music.
Psychologically these actions are NOT on the same level of "illegal".

If government convinces public that Bitcoin is illegal, that would be the end of "mainstream" Bitcoin.

This is why I proselytize liberty Wink

crumbs

full member

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If the US government finds bitcoin disruptive enough, they will outlaw it, using any of the already mentioned reasons as justification.
1. Once bitcoin becomes illegal in US, the country's trade partners will likely follow suit.
2. Existing bitcoin money exchanges will shutter, tanking the bitcoin dollar price.
3. Money speculators and money launderers, interested in fiat exchange rather than ideology, lose interest.
4. Bitcoin mining, already centralized & commercialized, will become easy prey for law enforcement. Profitability, already shot due to (1), will not justify operating under the radar. Hash rate plummets.
5. Possible protocol/packet filtering at tier-1 provider level, likely unnecessary.
6. Diehards keep the network alive, but with fiat flowing out instead of in, it becomes irrelevant.
TL;DR: Nothing high-tech needs to happen, no 51% attacks, no crypto-cracking.

None of this is likely to happen, i'm not cashing out Cheesy

jbreher

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lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: lorax2013 on November 12, 2013, 06:57:13 AM

Thanks for the answers, to diverge again as to why: ...

You have asked important questions, and even more important details about such questions. Any consideration of any one aspect of any identified attack vector could be a lengthy discussion unto itself. You may wish to avoid letting the conversation derail into whys and wherefores, lest the signal get buried in the noise.

inform

newbie

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Quote from: xan_The_Dragon on November 12, 2013, 12:56:46 PM

What would be there motivation?

paper dolar usa or masons or iluminati or secrets societys also propoganda i think this fashion also people how hipnoze procedure zombies

P.S biozombies

i Russian
but intelectual intuition i understand Roll Eyes

this some true

who create system
who create paper dolar analog federal rezerve
who create usa

who make war iraq,afganistan,difirents revolutions and etc,kosovo,ukraine,iran,egypt,now is procedure syria

make a lot globas proublums sionizm

who is god

goild
oil
drugs

i think this bankzters make global monopoly

make bomb city how people slep [this how democraty come]

NEW WORLD ORDER

read 1 coment

[ fuck the government! we all gotta stick together asian blacks white mexicans we all gotta stick together & fight the government! stop fighting for evil & fight 4 good 4 whats rite! stop the racism 1 love!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_J1viY2cE0

if you not know what is this
you in big hipnoze!

This who and how control world our planet

this kill 2pac and michiel jackson and industry who try say true 100%
Who know true say you how realy this come in this 2013

subcoin

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Quote

Yes, I believe it'll take a hit, but I don't believe Bitcoin will be taken down;

Yes, I agree with that too. Also, that no matter what happens Bitcoin will be operational.
However, in peoples' mind torrent'ing music is not the same as torrent'ing money.
From an early age we are taught that doing anything illegal with money is really bad.
Unlike sneaking into a movie or copying your friends music.
Psychologically these actions are NOT on the same level of "illegal".

If government convinces public that Bitcoin is illegal, that would be the end of "mainstream" Bitcoin.

LiteCoinGuy

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1014

In Satoshi I Trust

of course they can forbid all trading and holding of btc.

i guess the price would go down 50-70% and then recover over time. if other countrys are okay with that technologie, they will have an advantage.

but i dont think, that they forbid that.

RodeoX

legendary

Activity: 3066

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: superresistant on November 12, 2013, 05:03:29 AM

US have no intention to take it down.

They cannot take it down. Can you take down Internet ?

An attempt would cost billions of dollars and have a very slim chance of doing any damage. What ever happens, there is not going to be a "takedown". I think it is impossible.

Mike Christ

legendary

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Quote from: subcoin on November 12, 2013, 04:27:15 PM

Quote

https://thepiratebay.sx/

Ok, some "rouge" Bitcoin trading will remain.
But who cares when public confidence is destroyed
and no legitimate business can operate?

Yes, I believe it'll take a hit, but I don't believe Bitcoin will be taken down; public confidence in torrenting, however, has never been higher, and economies have had to adapt to it (consider music-streaming services & online radio such as Pandora and last.fm and video-streaming services such as Netflix and Hulu to give people a reason not to bother with torrents.) It doesn't matter if it's illegal if the public prefers it; people consistently break laws they didn't make if they don't agree with them, as they should; only thing governments can do is get in the way, and if governments get in the way of the world, I'd side with the world.

bassclef

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Quote from: lorax2013 on November 12, 2013, 04:06:27 PM

Quote from: bassclef on November 12, 2013, 01:20:30 PM

Remember that the us government (or any large government for that matter) is made up of individuals acting in their own interests, often within huge beauracracies, which then operate in their own best interests and often compete with each other for power, money, etc. 99% of these people have probably never heard of Bitcoin and don't care about much beyond a nice paycheck and getting home to watch Homeland. Even Federal Reserve employees are like this, yes I know a few.

I say this because I keep reading about "they". "They" will outlaw Bitcoin. Who is they? There is no smoke filled room with old men deciding the fate of Bitcoin. The system is huge, complex, and has grown ever dependent on itself. It is a house of cards, a lumbering dinosaur, and not nearly as nefarious as some of you think.

One thing for sure is that without the dollar they are powerless: a silent coup. That is the beauty of Bitcoin.

The discussion keeps drifting from my original technical question, but OK I should have posted on the tech board - and for most people understanding if an attack would come is more important. Yes, the govt is a collective consciousness - I didn't want to get into this since it is part of the side issue of if or when "they" attack. The reason bitcoin wasn't taken down immediately, imo, is precisely because a collective consciousness is slow to act and bitcoin was hard to attack. Eventually the collective consciousness of the Establishment will recognize the threat and act more forcefully. Yes that may be years in the future but this is a different debate vs the originally technical question of how an attack would occur, could blame be shifted, and if there would be warning.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that if enough individuals within the government stand to profit from Bitcoin and it's in their interest to jump the fiat ship, any attack will likely never happen.

All you mathemagician coders tend to look at things too black and white

tvbcof

legendary

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Quote from: subcoin on November 12, 2013, 04:15:49 PM

If US government decides to "attack" Bitcoin, it'll go like this:
1. They will send cease and decease letters to all large pools (even the ones outside of US)
2. For those who do not comply, they will turn off domains
3. They will send cease and decease letters to all exchanges (even the ones outside of US)
4. For those who do not comply, they will turn off domains.
Boom! In one week 90% of Bitcoin infrastructure is gone.
Price of BTC plummets close to nothing.
People are afraid of using it because it's "illegal".
Cost to the government less than $100k.

How many of you received cease and decease letter from a government organization?
It's a pretty traumatic experience... will be enough to scare most people shitless.

Your scenario seems plausible. But quickly people would realize that the value store in the blockchain is safe (if potentially locked) and many smart people would be working overtime to circumvent the attack. I'm sure the value of BTC and confidence in the system would plummet, but not to anywhere near zero, and the effects would be transient.

In order for the scenario to be more robust and durable, and regime of monitoring and attack would need to be implemented, or emplaced as part of a broader initiative of global network management. I don't rule this out because there are lots of things which could drive such an effort. Distributed crypto-currencies are probably a minor (but potentially growing) aspect of the threat mosaic.

subcoin

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Quote

https://thepiratebay.sx/

Ok, some "rouge" Bitcoin trading will remain.
But who cares when public confidence is destroyed
and no legitimate business can operate?

deadweasel

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Merit: 250

Quote from: Mike Christ on November 12, 2013, 04:20:00 PM

Quote from: subcoin on November 12, 2013, 04:15:49 PM

If US government decides to "attack" Bitcoin, it'll go like this:
1. They will send cease and decease letters to all large pools (even the ones outside of US)
2. For those who do not comply, they will turn off domains
3. They will send cease and decease letters to all exchanges (even the ones outside of US)
4. For those who do not comply, they will turn off domains.
Boom! In one week 90% of Bitcoin infrastructure is gone.
Price of BTC plummets close to nothing.
People are afraid of using it because it's "illegal".
Cost to the government less than $100k.

How many of you received cease and decease letter from a government organization?
It's a pretty traumatic experience... will be enough to scare most people shitless.

https://thepiratebay.sx/

Your scenario in effect.

Yes. Torrenting is a close analogy. How it would play out when risk takers nest eggs are in play, I don't know.

Mike Christ

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1003

Quote from: subcoin on November 12, 2013, 04:15:49 PM

If US government decides to "attack" Bitcoin, it'll go like this:
1. They will send cease and decease letters to all large pools (even the ones outside of US)
2. For those who do not comply, they will turn off domains
3. They will send cease and decease letters to all exchanges (even the ones outside of US)
4. For those who do not comply, they will turn off domains.
Boom! In one week 90% of Bitcoin infrastructure is gone.
Price of BTC plummets close to nothing.
People are afraid of using it because it's "illegal".
Cost to the government less than $100k.

How many of you received cease and decease letter from a government organization?
It's a pretty traumatic experience... will be enough to scare most people shitless.

https://thepiratebay.sx/

Your scenario in effect.

subcoin

member

Activity: 100

Merit: 10

If US government decides to "attack" Bitcoin, it'll go like this:
1. They will send cease and decease letters to all large pools (even the ones outside of US)
2. For those who do not comply, they will turn off domains
3. They will send cease and decease letters to all exchanges (even the ones outside of US)
4. For those who do not comply, they will turn off domains.
Boom! In one week 90% of Bitcoin infrastructure is gone.
Price of BTC plummets close to nothing.
People are afraid of using it because it's "illegal".
Cost to the government less than $100k.

How many of you received cease and decease letter from a government organization?
It's a pretty traumatic experience... will be enough to scare most people shitless.

lorax2013

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 0

Quote from: bassclef on November 12, 2013, 01:20:30 PM

Remember that the us government (or any large government for that matter) is made up of individuals acting in their own interests, often within huge beauracracies, which then operate in their own best interests and often compete with each other for power, money, etc. 99% of these people have probably never heard of Bitcoin and don't care about much beyond a nice paycheck and getting home to watch Homeland. Even Federal Reserve employees are like this, yes I know a few.

I say this because I keep reading about "they". "They" will outlaw Bitcoin. Who is they? There is no smoke filled room with old men deciding the fate of Bitcoin. The system is huge, complex, and has grown ever dependent on itself. It is a house of cards, a lumbering dinosaur, and not nearly as nefarious as some of you think.

One thing for sure is that without the dollar they are powerless: a silent coup. That is the beauty of Bitcoin.

The discussion keeps drifting from my original technical question, but OK I should have posted on the tech board - and for most people understanding if an attack would come is more important. Yes, the govt is a collective consciousness - I didn't want to get into this since it is part of the side issue of if or when "they" attack. The reason bitcoin wasn't taken down immediately, imo, is precisely because a collective consciousness is slow to act and bitcoin was hard to attack. Eventually the collective consciousness of the Establishment will recognize the threat and act more forcefully. Yes that may be years in the future but this is a different debate vs the originally technical question of how an attack would occur, could blame be shifted, and if there would be warning.

Topic: scenarios if US Govt tried to take down bitcoin? - page 5. (Read 11904 times)