Author

Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 393. (Read 845569 times)

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 21, 2014, 12:34:44 PM
There is no proof that the Bible is the only printed word of God.
If you question BADecker on the integrity of the Bible, he will freak out because you are attacking his dogma.
BADecker is not willing to discuss anything that could contradict his dogma, and he likes it that way.
Decksperiment wrote several pages trying to get this point across, among others...

Huwt youw itty, bitty, feewings, did I?   Grin

I pierced your dogma.

Life is about, at times, feeling comfortable. So, since I am not adverse to you feeling comfortable, I won't object to your statement. But, so that I feel comfortable, neither will I accept it.

Smiley
No need to blindly accept what I say; do your own thinking, and consider the FACT that Jesus never put pen to paper, that Paul never was a "follower of Christ", that Creationism cannot actually explain the anomalies mentioned.

Quote from: Ayn Rand
Non-thinking is an act of annihilation, a wish to negate existence, an attempt to wipe out reality. But existence exists; reality is not to be wiped out, it will merely wipe out the wiper. By refusing to say “It is,” you are refusing to say “I am.” By suspending your judgment, you are negating your person. When a man declares: “Who am I to know?” he is declaring: “Who am I to live?”

You can hardly feel good about yourself if you are wandering around in a self-induced mental fog.

Does somebody pay you to write this stuff?   Grin

No amount of smileys will hide the fact that you are extremely sensitive to this subject matter and result to passive aggression when you no idea how to respond  to someone.

The idea is to get people to be saved, even atheists, even new agers. Jesus suffered a lot on the cross that day. He did it for me. He did it for you. He did it for everyone. He doesn't want anyone to be lost.

How does one respond with the truth while, at the same time, not alienate? bl4kjaguar might be lost, but the fact that he is still answering shows that there is hope. Notice that his answers don't have much of a thread of logic to them. But he still tries. There is still hope.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 21, 2014, 12:16:43 PM
There is no proof that the Bible is the only printed word of God.
If you question BADecker on the integrity of the Bible, he will freak out because you are attacking his dogma.
BADecker is not willing to discuss anything that could contradict his dogma, and he likes it that way.
Decksperiment wrote several pages trying to get this point across, among others...

Huwt youw itty, bitty, feewings, did I?   Grin

I pierced your dogma.

Life is about, at times, feeling comfortable. So, since I am not adverse to you feeling comfortable, I won't object to your statement. But, so that I feel comfortable, neither will I accept it.

Smiley
No need to blindly accept what I say; do your own thinking, and consider the FACT that Jesus never put pen to paper, that Paul never was a "follower of Christ", that Creationism cannot actually explain the anomalies mentioned.

Quote from: Ayn Rand
Non-thinking is an act of annihilation, a wish to negate existence, an attempt to wipe out reality. But existence exists; reality is not to be wiped out, it will merely wipe out the wiper. By refusing to say “It is,” you are refusing to say “I am.” By suspending your judgment, you are negating your person. When a man declares: “Who am I to know?” he is declaring: “Who am I to live?”

You can hardly feel good about yourself if you are wandering around in a self-induced mental fog.

Does somebody pay you to write this stuff?   Grin

No amount of smileys will hide the fact that you are extremely sensitive to this subject matter and result to passive aggression when you no idea how to respond  to someone.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 21, 2014, 11:56:30 AM
Let me say it like this:
Evolution offers science some handles for investigation.
God doesn't because God is "outside of the sphere" of what science has any way of handling.

Smiley

And yet, Darwinists, Creationists and Intelligent Design proponents are unable to explain anomalies in the emergence of domesticated plants, animals and humans.

http://www.whale.to/b/pye1.html

Obviously you missed the part about the devil deceiving Adam and Eve, thereby causing sin to come into the world, and changing everything. I wonder if he (the devil) is your writer.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 21, 2014, 11:37:57 AM
There is no proof that the Bible is the only printed word of God.
If you question BADecker on the integrity of the Bible, he will freak out because you are attacking his dogma.
BADecker is not willing to discuss anything that could contradict his dogma, and he likes it that way.
Decksperiment wrote several pages trying to get this point across, among others...

Huwt youw itty, bitty, feewings, did I?   Grin

I pierced your dogma.

Life is about, at times, feeling comfortable. So, since I am not adverse to you feeling comfortable, I won't object to your statement. But, so that I feel comfortable, neither will I accept it.

Smiley
No need to blindly accept what I say; do your own thinking, and consider the FACT that Jesus never put pen to paper, that Paul never was a "follower of Christ", that Creationism cannot actually explain the anomalies mentioned.

Quote from: Ayn Rand
Non-thinking is an act of annihilation, a wish to negate existence, an attempt to wipe out reality. But existence exists; reality is not to be wiped out, it will merely wipe out the wiper. By refusing to say “It is,” you are refusing to say “I am.” By suspending your judgment, you are negating your person. When a man declares: “Who am I to know?” he is declaring: “Who am I to live?”

You can hardly feel good about yourself if you are wandering around in a self-induced mental fog.

Does somebody pay you to write this stuff?   Grin
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
November 21, 2014, 04:48:43 AM
There is no proof that the Bible is the only printed word of God.
If you question BADecker on the integrity of the Bible, he will freak out because you are attacking his dogma.
BADecker is not willing to discuss anything that could contradict his dogma, and he likes it that way.
Decksperiment wrote several pages trying to get this point across, among others...

Huwt youw itty, bitty, feewings, did I?   Grin

I pierced your dogma.

Life is about, at times, feeling comfortable. So, since I am not adverse to you feeling comfortable, I won't object to your statement. But, so that I feel comfortable, neither will I accept it.

Smiley
No need to blindly accept what I say; do your own thinking, and consider the FACT that Jesus never put pen to paper, that Paul never was a "follower of Christ", that Creationism cannot actually explain the anomalies mentioned.

Quote from: Ayn Rand
Non-thinking is an act of annihilation, a wish to negate existence, an attempt to wipe out reality. But existence exists; reality is not to be wiped out, it will merely wipe out the wiper. By refusing to say “It is,” you are refusing to say “I am.” By suspending your judgment, you are negating your person. When a man declares: “Who am I to know?” he is declaring: “Who am I to live?”

You can hardly feel good about yourself if you are wandering around in a self-induced mental fog.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
November 21, 2014, 04:42:45 AM
Let me say it like this:
Evolution offers science some handles for investigation.
God doesn't because God is "outside of the sphere" of what science has any way of handling.

Smiley

And yet, Darwinists, Creationists and Intelligent Design proponents are unable to explain anomalies in the emergence of domesticated plants, animals and humans.

http://www.whale.to/b/pye1.html
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 20, 2014, 11:06:59 PM


Try telling that to all the kids in grade school, high school, college, medical school, etc., who are virtually forced to study evolution as though it were some kind of logical process, if not the absolute truth behind all life.


Quote

Probably, yes. But why would a religion that tries to ignore the whole idea of religion even mention anything about religion at all?


Quote
No? My idea isn't to bolster arguments. My idea is to set down some points that will help you and others clarify for yourselves - that is, instigate valid internal arguments within yourselves - about why or why not God or evolution or something else might be valid. I see from your discussion that it is working. I also see that you have very subtle ways for evading the point.

Smiley

1)  Evolution is misunderstood if it's proposed as a cause for life itself.  No teacher or professor or scientist has any business associating evolution with the cause for life.

2)  The scientific method isn't a religion, it's a theory about knowledge acquisition, i.e. it is a specific method used to acquire certain types of knowledge.  Religion is not a method of anything, but instead is a belief system. 

3)  What point am I evading?  I'd like to know so I can respond to it directly.

Lately my daughter tells me that colleges are becoming less formal about the idea of evolution as the way life came about. But for a long time, evolution was taught both ways, as a theory and as fact (fact by implication, mostly).

In today's world, politics has turned the scientific method into a different thing than science. While the scientific method may not be affected for a long time yet by politics, politics has turned science into, if not religion, at least philosophy.

The point wasn't meant to be responded to, exactly. The point is that when you look at nature and the universe as a whole, the idea of God is way stronger than the idea of evolution for the beginnings of life. Notice, I said "idea," not "science." Now, relax. I'm not saying you necessarily agree or disagree with this. It is more rhetorical, since there is no way of proving full evolution or full God... not at this point, anyway.

Let me say it like this:
Evolution offers science some handles for investigation.
God doesn't because God is "outside of the sphere" of what science has any way of handling.

Perhaps we agree way more than we think. Perhaps it is only that we are coming from different directions.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 20, 2014, 10:43:11 PM


Try telling that to all the kids in grade school, high school, college, medical school, etc., who are virtually forced to study evolution as though it were some kind of logical process, if not the absolute truth behind all life.


Quote

Probably, yes. But why would a religion that tries to ignore the whole idea of religion even mention anything about religion at all?


Quote
No? My idea isn't to bolster arguments. My idea is to set down some points that will help you and others clarify for yourselves - that is, instigate valid internal arguments within yourselves - about why or why not God or evolution or something else might be valid. I see from your discussion that it is working. I also see that you have very subtle ways for evading the point.

Smiley

1)  Evolution is misunderstood if it's proposed as a cause for life itself.  No teacher or professor or scientist has any business associating evolution with the cause for life.

2)  The scientific method isn't a religion, it's a theory about knowledge acquisition, i.e. it is a specific method used to acquire certain types of knowledge.  Religion is not a method of anything, but instead is a belief system. 

3)  What point am I evading?  I'd like to know so I can respond to it directly.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 20, 2014, 10:29:42 PM
Here's a nice article about scientific hypotheses: https://philosophynow.org/issues/74/Hypotheses_Forget_About_It

looks like it is very interesting reading material.  sadly, I don't have a membership. if you would be so kind to PM me a copy and paste, it would be read and appreciated.   Wink  I won't tell if you don't.

You know, it's strange.  I was able to access the entire article online, but when I clicked my own link that I pasted I couldn't access it either.

Here's the quoted text, again I have no idea why it was accessible in full via Google but not upon clicking the hyperlink:

Quote
Hypotheses? Forget About It!

So says our philosophical science correspondent Massimo Pigliucci.

Newton famously said “hypotheses non fingo,” meaning, “I frame no hypotheses” – a rather startling position for a scientist to advocate. Isn’t science precisely the activity of constructing and testing hypotheses about the natural world? Certainly this has been the view of influential philosophers of science such as Karl Popper. Popper said that scientific hypotheses can never be proven correct, but they can be falsified, that is proven wrong. For Popper, science progresses through the successive elimination of wrong hypotheses. Many scientists proudly ignore philosophy, but Popperian falsification is one of the only two philosophical concepts you are likely to find in an introductory science textbook. (The other is Thomas Kuhn’s idea of paradigms. This is rather strange, since Kuhn was a fierce critic of Popper.)

I came across a delightful paper by David Glass and Ned Hall – the first a biomedical researcher, the second a philosopher – published in a rather unlikely place, the journal Cell (August 8, 2008). As its title states, the main point of the paper is to provide readers with ‘A Brief History of the Hypothesis’. This makes it a must-read for young (and perhaps not so young) scientists. But what caught my attention in the paper is Glass and Hall’s suggestion that, contrary to Popper’s conception of science, scientists would be better off replacing hypotheses with two other guides to their research: questions and models.

Let me explain. Half of the problem with hypotheses was mentioned above: there is no way to conclusively prove a hypothesis correct, because there is always the possibility that a new set of observations will disprove it. The bad news is that, unbeknownst to most scientists, philosophers have also made a very compelling argument that hypotheses cannot be decisively disproved either. Falsification doesn’t work, because one can always tweak the hypothesis enough to accommodate the initially discordant data, or question some of the ancillary hypotheses, or even question the accuracy of the data itself. (This is not as far fetched as it may seem given the complexity of the machinery used nowadays to produce scientific data, from particle colliders to genomic sequencers.)

What now? Glass and Hall advise us to go back to the basics. Science is really about asking questions, they suggest: “it would seem that a question is the appropriate tool because the question, as opposed to a hypothesis, properly identifies the scientist as being in a state of ignorance when data are absent.” Right! I became a scientist because science has the power to answer questions about nature. Questions can be formulated in either open-ended or very specific ways, and both ways can provide guidance for fruitful empirical research. Besides, as Glass and Hall also note, in many fields of modern science one would not even know how to begin to formulate sensible hypotheses. For instance, in the field of genomics, it’s easy to ask questions: how many genes are there in the human genome? How much does the human genome differ from that of other primates, and in what ways? But what sort of hypotheses could one possibly formulate to replace such questions?

Genomic research is highly explorative, so it is natural to base it on well-thought-out questions. Even when research is more advanced and less explorative, Glass and Hall contend that hypotheses still will not do, as they can’t be proven and they can’t be disproven. Instead, here we need models of the phenomena under study.

Unlike a hypothesis, a model is constructed after some of the data is in, and then the model is used to predict new data. A model can be statistical or directly causal in nature, mathematical or verbal, but its predictions are probabilistic and always subject to refinement.

It is the very dynamism of models which makes them powerful intellectual tools in the scientific quest for knowledge. Glass and Hall write: “eliminate the ‘hypothesis’ term and substitute the ‘question’ for settings where experiments are performed before sufficient data exist, and the ‘model’ for situations where the scientist is working with sufficient data to produce a construct that can be tested for inductive [predictive] power.”

In fields which rely heavily on statistical analysis, such as biology and the social sciences, some scientists have already moved away from hypothesis testing to model comparisons. It used to be that statistical tests were rigidly set up to pit a simple (some would say simplistic) ‘null hypothesis’ (nothing’s happening) against an alternative, catch-all hypothesis (there’s something going on here…). Slowly but surely, people have figured out that this is not particularly productive, and recent years have seen a steady increase in the use of statistical software that can pit several alternative models against each other, with analytical methods that can tell which ones are more likely, given the available data.

The funny thing about all this is that a few years ago the US National Science Foundation made a ‘philosophical’ move in their guidelines for grant proposals. They explicitly asked scientists to do away with questions (the traditional way to frame grants) and to replace them instead with the more ‘solid’ concept of hypothesis. So now a prospective grant applicant can be seriously penalized if she does not put her proposal in a way clearly contradictory to Newton’s dictum (I venture to say that citing Newton as a reference will not help). But this is what happens when scientists pay so little attention to philosophy that they are a few decades out of date with the philosophy of science literature. Maybe we should mandate Philosophy of Science 101 for all graduate students in the sciences.

© Dr Massimo Pigliucci 2009

Massimo Pigliucci is Chair of the Philosophy Department at City University of New York, Lehman College, and is the author of several books, including Making Sense of Evolution: The Conceptual Foundations Of Evolutionary Biology (Chicago Press, 2006). His philosophical musings can be found at www.platofootnote.org.
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
November 20, 2014, 10:07:50 PM
Here's a nice article about scientific hypotheses: https://philosophynow.org/issues/74/Hypotheses_Forget_About_It

looks like it is very interesting reading material.  sadly, I don't have a membership. if you would be so kind to PM me a copy and paste, it would be read and appreciated.   Wink  I won't tell if you don't.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 20, 2014, 08:24:54 PM
These responses are exactly the thing that I am talking about. Point them in the other direction. Point them at evolution, big bang, and old-age universe.

Let me pick on evolution. Evolution suggests that things have gone from a very simple state to an extremely complex state over a long period of time. What do we see in the universe and nature around us? Let's list some of them. We see:
1. Extremely great complexity;
2. Cause and Effect in everything;
3. Continual entropy;
4. No evident method for evolution to be happening;
5. A fossil record that shows that in the past there were more than 3 x the number of species than we see alive today;
6. A fossil record that doesn't conclusively show evolution.

Putting all these things together as simply stated above doesn't prove God. Yet these things are part of the reason that men of science have to twist math and nature in laboratories just to get something that they can suggest might appear to be evolution.

That's human laboratories, not nature's "laboratory." They aren't the same. Men need to make very controlled "situations" to get what they want. Nature shows what exists.

The 6 things mentioned above make two very apparent points:
A. We simply don't know for a scientific fact about how things came into being. We are still at base one;
B. Of all the things that we can logically surmise about where we come from, God in all strong probability holds the top position.

Although nature may not prove God from the things listed above in the simplistic form they are listed, they point to God more than any other popular idea, and maybe more than any other idea whatsoever. It's self evident.

Smiley

Quote
The 6 things mentioned above make two very apparent points:
A. We simply don't know for a scientific fact about how things came into being. We are still at base one;
B. Of all the things that we can logically surmise about where we come from, God in all strong probability holds the top position.

A)  Correct, we have no concrete scientific facts about how things came into being. Fortunately, that has absolutely nothing to do with evolution.  

This is one of the most profound and glaringly accurate, direct-to-the-point statements you havge made.


Quote
Evolution is *only* concerned with exploring the biological and environmental processes that lead to adaptive changes in the genome.  It has absolutely nothing to do with the origin of life, nor does it ever attempt to explain the origin of life.

Try telling that to all the kids in grade school, high school, college, medical school, etc., who are virtually forced to study evolution as though it were some kind of logical process, if not the absolut truth behind all life.


Quote
Evolution also makes no comment about religion.

Probably, yes. But why would a religion that tries to ignore the whole idea of religion even mention anything about religion at all?


Quote
B)  I, too, believe God is the most probable and logical cause of the Universe, but your arguments in no way support this.  Your reasoning continues to be shockingly horrible.  You can be correct for the wrong reasons, and you have demonstrated more wrongful reasons to believe in something than I imagined possible from someone who clearly can read, speak, and write the English language.  Simply put, you haven't put forth one legitimate argument for the necessary existence of God, nor have you put forth one legitimate counterargument to evolution, except in a few recent posts where you have obviously begun piggybacking off the ideas of others.

No? My idea isn't to bolster arguments. My idea is to set down some points that will help you and others clarify for yourselves - that is, instigate valid internal arguments within yourselves - about why or why not God or evolution or something else might be valid. I see from your discussion that it is working. I also see that you have very subtle ways for evading the point.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 20, 2014, 08:13:34 PM
These responses are exactly the thing that I am talking about. Point them in the other direction. Point them at evolution, big bang, and old-age universe.

Let me pick on evolution. Evolution suggests that things have gone from a very simple state to an extremely complex state over a long period of time. What do we see in the universe and nature around us? Let's list some of them. We see:
1. Extremely great complexity;
2. Cause and Effect in everything;
3. Continual entropy;
4. No evident method for evolution to be happening;
5. A fossil record that shows that in the past there were more than 3 x the number of species than we see alive today;
6. A fossil record that doesn't conclusively show evolution.

Putting all these things together as simply stated above doesn't prove God. Yet these things are part of the reason that men of science have to twist math and nature in laboratories just to get something that they can suggest might appear to be evolution.

That's human laboratories, not nature's "laboratory." They aren't the same. Men need to make very controlled "situations" to get what they want. Nature shows what exists.

The 6 things mentioned above make two very apparent points:
A. We simply don't know for a scientific fact about how things came into being. We are still at base one;
B. Of all the things that we can logically surmise about where we come from, God in all strong probability holds the top position.

Although nature may not prove God from the things listed above in the simplistic form they are listed, they point to God more than any other popular idea, and maybe more than any other idea whatsoever. It's self evident.

Smiley

Okay, so, let's look at this statement you make:

Quote
Putting all these things together as simply stated above doesn't prove God. Yet these things are part of the reason that men of science have to twist math and nature in laboratories just to get something that they can suggest might appear to be evolution.

While I'm not suggesting that there haven't been poor experimental methods (and, by the way, experimental methods are different from the more general scientific method), and while I'm also not suggesting that some scientists mistakenly commit unnecessary fallacies by intentionally trying to fit data to match a hypothesis, can you point to a single example of this with regards to evolution?  I'm not saying they don't exist, but I have the impression that you're saying things without ever having the awareness to recognize specific examples as they arise.

If you can't find an example with regards to evolution, then I'll accept another concrete example of where "men of science...twist math and nature in laboratories."

You sound like a logical sort of chap. So, my answer would have to be, all of it.

Stand up all of the evidence for evolution against the 6 things that I listed above (include in #1, "... along with extreme simplicity), and you have enough evidence that anything that can be called evolution is sheer foolishness.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 20, 2014, 08:06:29 PM
There is no proof that the Bible is the only printed word of God.
If you question BADecker on the integrity of the Bible, he will freak out because you are attacking his dogma.
BADecker is not willing to discuss anything that could contradict his dogma, and he likes it that way.
Decksperiment wrote several pages trying to get this point across, among others...

Huwt youw itty, bitty, feewings, did I?   Grin

I pierced your dogma.

Life is about, at times, feeling comfortable. So, since I am not adverse to you feeling comfortable, I won't object to your statement. But, so that I feel comfortable, neither will I accept it.

Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 20, 2014, 06:20:58 PM
Here's a fantastic article about theories, and about how various disciplines (i.e. philosophy, and its abstract and empirical children, mathematics and physical science respectively) differ in their capacity to explore different kinds of theories.

Go here: http://ctmu.org/ and click "here" at the end of the first bullet point to get to the article.

I guarantee that religious and scientific-minded alike will learn something from reading it.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
November 20, 2014, 06:14:14 PM
These responses are exactly the thing that I am talking about. Point them in the other direction. Point them at evolution, big bang, and old-age universe.

Let me pick on evolution. Evolution suggests that things have gone from a very simple state to an extremely complex state over a long period of time. What do we see in the universe and nature around us? Let's list some of them. We see:
1. Extremely great complexity;
2. Cause and Effect in everything;
3. Continual entropy;
4. No evident method for evolution to be happening;
5. A fossil record that shows that in the past there were more than 3 x the number of species than we see alive today;
6. A fossil record that doesn't conclusively show evolution.

Putting all these things together as simply stated above doesn't prove God. Yet these things are part of the reason that men of science have to twist math and nature in laboratories just to get something that they can suggest might appear to be evolution.

That's human laboratories, not nature's "laboratory." They aren't the same. Men need to make very controlled "situations" to get what they want. Nature shows what exists.

The 6 things mentioned above make two very apparent points:
A. We simply don't know for a scientific fact about how things came into being. We are still at base one;
B. Of all the things that we can logically surmise about where we come from, God in all strong probability holds the top position.

Although nature may not prove God from the things listed above in the simplistic form they are listed, they point to God more than any other popular idea, and maybe more than any other idea whatsoever. It's self evident.

Smiley

Okay, so, let's look at this statement you make:

Quote
Putting all these things together as simply stated above doesn't prove God. Yet these things are part of the reason that men of science have to twist math and nature in laboratories just to get something that they can suggest might appear to be evolution.

While I'm not suggesting that there haven't been poor experimental methods (and, by the way, experimental methods are different from the more general scientific method), and while I'm also not suggesting that some scientists mistakenly commit unnecessary fallacies by intentionally trying to fit data to match a hypothesis, can you point to a single example of this with regards to evolution?  I'm not saying they don't exist, but I have the impression that you're saying things without ever having the awareness to recognize specific examples as they arise.

If you can't find an example with regards to evolution, then I'll accept another concrete example of where "men of science...twist math and nature in laboratories."

Quote
The 6 things mentioned above make two very apparent points:
A. We simply don't know for a scientific fact about how things came into being. We are still at base one;
B. Of all the things that we can logically surmise about where we come from, God in all strong probability holds the top position.

A)  Correct, we have no concrete scientific facts about how things came into being.  Fortunately, that has absolutely nothing to do with evolution.  Evolution is *only* concerned with exploring the biological and environmental processes that lead to adaptive changes in the genome.  It has absolutely nothing to do with the origin of life, nor does it ever attempt to explain the origin of life.  Evolution also makes no comment about religion.

B)  I, too, believe God is the most probable and logical cause of the Universe, but your arguments in no way support this.  Your reasoning continues to be shockingly horrible.  You can be correct for the wrong reasons, and you have demonstrated more wrongful reasons to believe in something than I imagined possible from someone who clearly can read, speak, and write the English language.  Simply put, you haven't put forth one legitimate argument for the necessary existence of God, nor have you put forth one legitimate counterargument to evolution, except in a few recent posts where you have obviously begun piggybacking off the ideas of others.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
November 20, 2014, 05:02:46 PM
There is no proof that the Bible is the only printed word of God.
If you question BADecker on the integrity of the Bible, he will freak out because you are attacking his dogma.
BADecker is not willing to discuss anything that could contradict his dogma, and he likes it that way.
Decksperiment wrote several pages trying to get this point across, among others...

Huwt youw itty, bitty, feewings, did I?   Grin

I pierced your dogma.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 20, 2014, 04:51:25 PM
There is no proof that the Bible is the only printed word of God.
If you question BADecker on the integrity of the Bible, he will freak out because you are attacking his dogma.
BADecker is not willing to discuss anything that could contradict his dogma, and he likes it that way.
Decksperiment wrote several pages trying to get this point across, among others...

Huwt youw itty, bitty, feewings, did I?   Grin
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
November 20, 2014, 04:41:27 PM
There is no proof that the Bible is the only printed word of God.
If you question BADecker on the integrity of the Bible, he will freak out because you are attacking his dogma.
BADecker is not willing to discuss anything that could contradict his dogma, and he likes it that way.
Decksperiment wrote several pages trying to get this point across, among others...
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 20, 2014, 03:31:41 PM


Quote
Post all of the scientific reasons and evidence that demonstrate that this is the case.
Then let people make their own conclusions once they have evaluated the evidence for your claim.
Is that fair?

Just like you. You either believe a little based on the things that I have said, or you don't. Do your own, what would you call it, homework? It doesn't hurt me that nobody can drag any pertinent info out of you, even with a team of horses.

Smiley

Funny; when you assign homework you are supposed to tell the student where to look for answers. Have you provided references?

The universe is at your disposal.


Quote
Have you called my phone number to ask me for some pertinent info?

Why would I? After reading your garbage responses, I don't have any reason. However, if you want to pay me enough, I might consider tutoring you.


Quote
Your dogma is not appreciated here unless you can back it up; you are annoying us and leading us away from the truth you try to promote.

At least I have a high enough IQ that I can understand it a little.


Quote

Christ never put pen to paper. Without the writings of Christ, the integrity of the Bible is in question.

Better to have others speak about you, rather than attesting to yourself. After all, you could be lying. The more the witnesses that affirm what you speak, the better chance there is that you are telling the truth.

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legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
November 20, 2014, 03:20:40 PM
These responses are exactly the thing that I am talking about. Point them in the other direction. Point them at evolution, big bang, and old-age universe.

Let me pick on evolution. Evolution suggests that things have gone from a very simple state to an extremely complex state over a long period of time. What do we see in the universe and nature around us? Let's list some of them. We see:
1. Extremely great complexity;
2. Cause and Effect in everything;
3. Continual entropy;
4. No evident method for evolution to be happening;
5. A fossil record that shows that in the past there were more than 3 x the number of species than we see alive today;
6. A fossil record that doesn't conclusively show evolution.

Putting all these things together as simply stated above doesn't prove God. Yet these things are part of the reason that men of science have to twist math and nature in laboratories just to get something that they can suggest might appear to be evolution.

That's human laboratories, not nature's "laboratory." They aren't the same. Men need to make very controlled "situations" to get what they want. Nature shows what exists.

The 6 things mentioned above make two very apparent points:
A. We simply don't know for a scientific fact about how things came into being. We are still at base one;
B. Of all the things that we can logically surmise about where we come from, God in all strong probability holds the top position.

Although nature may not prove God from the things listed above in the simplistic form they are listed, they point to God more than any other popular idea, and maybe more than any other idea whatsoever. It's self evident.

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