Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 509. (Read 845834 times)

mmm, more questions popping up in my mind ...

it's a bit puzzling. for example, that his desire for the good of people imply the men's suffering.

how many innocent men suffer and die every day without reason?

even if someone reply "because of original sin", make suffer all the progeny of adam for his disobedience is too much even for the most vengeful man.



however i have a deep respect for strong faith, and i don't want bother you too much 


for the sake of curiosity, which religion you belong?

The BIG Him

However, even with the abstract one, there are limits to the rules. For example, even if it is in the rules that a person can simply stand out in his driveway and jump to the moon, he still won't be able to do it. So, essentially, man-made rules are limitations on man.

Well that's true. I'd prefer your God with the clear rules.
With the lesser 'abstract' one, followers can just make up the rules as they see fit. Consulting the bible won't guide them because of all the endless contradictions as confirmed earlier. In fact that's more likely to misguide them if anything!


I'm starting to get bored of this thread now. I think it's reached the end of it's useful life. (If it ever had one.)

Well, we are talking about the BIG God. You know, the God Who made nature. There are rules of nature that He set in place that if you don't follow them, you hurt yourself, or even die.

Whew! I was worried for a second. So you have nothing to fear, then.  

Wait a minute, he did not state whose God?
If it is mine, Buffer everything you every did is forgiven. Why? Because my God doesn't have 'abstract' rules of what's right and what is not.

Excuse? I've done nothing wrong.

You back to that old fear mongering again? When will the penny drop?

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

My eyes are wide open.

Good, you are starting to wake up.

A person has dreams for his life. But if the dreams aren't practical, they often fall through, and the person suffers loss.

Out of fear of suffering loss a second time, the person goes into training to find out how to accomplish his dreams in ways that will work.

Same thing happens when dealing with God. And like a person gets too old after awhile, to continue to follow his dreams, even so God has a limit to as far as He will put up with peoples' turning away from Him.

I don't know that God needs companionship. That isn't something that I said. If I said it, I didn't mean it that way.

Probably the closest to God having need is like this. God is unimaginably Great and Wonderful. He is simply Fabulous, and in part, Fabulous beyond mans' understanding.

When God envisioned man, He saw how great and wonderful it would be for man to stand in awe of something so Great and Fabulous as God. And, having loved man before He even made us, He wanted to give us the best, and that "best" included making us so that we could recognize how Great and Wonderful He is.

Something like this might sound like conceit. But is it conceit if it is the absolute truth? Since it is the truth, it is complete humility on the part of God.

So you see? God's "need" to have companionship doesn't really have to do with Him having to have people around Him. Rather, it has to do with His desire for the good of all people.

Wow, just wow!!!!

Yeah
Lol

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

imaho there is a central flaw in the relation between god's omnipotence/greatness and the need of companionship.

assuming that an entity is perfect, that entity will be free of all needs. The need of companionship imply that he is not perfect particularly if it is a tremendous big need (he created tremendously large number of different entities).

Moreover those entities will not match His greatness because are all inferior, this could imply that He need to boss them (worst need than the first).

furthermore, if we assume that he is good and forgiving, how he could inflict eternal damnation to his creatures when they misbehave (according to His law) ? inflicting eternal sufferings and being good does not match

Wow, never seen that one before.

Hmm.
Not sure I give any credit to the book you're talking about.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

You are completely missing a whole lot of it.

God gives a certain amount of free will to men and angels.

It appears from Ezekiel 28 that before the Devil (a powerful, now-fallen angel) chose to fall, he was the one who was given authority to protect the earth, and particularly the first people.

The Devil used his free will to corrupt himself; he tempted Eve to go against God in the Garden.

Eve and Adam listened to the Devil, and used their free will to go against God.

Think how you feel when your teenage kids ask you for the car keys. You love them, and hope they will have a good time. You give them the keys and tell them to drive slow. They use their free will to disobey and drive fast. They get into an accident, total the car, wind up in the hospital. The damage was caused by their improper use of their free will. Their lives are forever changed. Yet, you still love them (even though you are angry with them), and you do everything that you can to see that they are healed.

God was angry, and still is in some ways. But He is, also, love. That is why we are finding cures for the DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

It ain't God's fault. It's ours. And we make it worse when we thrash out in anger against Him.