Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 515. (Read 845654 times)

A person might devote himself to atheism religiously. 

Actually, when you delve deeply into the history of the Bible and its existence, and ancient Israel its people, you will find the most probable reality of any that has presented anywhere. God was understood by people from the beginning, from the time of the creation. It is only in this recent time that droves of people are trying to force themselves into believing God doesn't exist.

Is it possible to believe in a god without being religious?

There will never be proof that something exists which people made up by imagining things.
I'm thinking the first person to spread the words of 'God' was probably high or something.
This discussion is actually pointless. Unlike Xhardware/software vs Zhardware/software where you can present actual facts/benchmarks or whatever, in this one you can't really do anything.
Just spit out words.
Look at the guy above, how do I know that there is nothing behind the surface of my wall?
How you ask me?

Are you talking to me? I didn't say religion. I said God. I agree with you about religion. All the wars are fought because people believe whatever personal religion they believe, whether or not it contains God.

For example, in the 1900s more than 200 million citizens of governments were killed by their governments, all because the government leaders had some whacked religious ideals in their heads that suggested that killing off their own citizens was, somehow, going to improve their country.

In the United States, it wasn't big government that killed off its own citizens. In the States it was the common people, who, in the name of freedom, and a religion of material possessions, have killed off almost 55 million of their own fellow citizens by aborting them.

This ain't God. This is religion. God absolutely does NOT condone this... even though there are probably many people who talk themselves into thinking that He does.

Now, consider how difficult this must be for God: continue to love people; continue to offer them freedom, even though it is limited; yet, act justly towards all. He can do it because He is GOD ALMIGHTY. He will do it by destroying this universe in the judgment day. And if you are dead by then, He will raise you to life to call you to account for your ways while you lived here. Almost all of the aborted babies will find renewal and salvation with Him.

More people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else in the history of the world.
More people have been tortured in the name of religion than anything else in the history of the world.
More people have been persecuted in the name of religion than anything else in the history of the world.

Are you genuinely sitting there scratching your head wondering why people are afraid of religion and want to avoid it at all costs? Really?
I don't believe you. I'm calling your bluff.

Thank you. And I DO completely understand where you are coming from. Probably God will never be objectively proven in this life, at least not until He comes and proves Himself.

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Years ago, in a Middle East country, there was a king who had 3 ambassadors. He wanted to make one of them his prime minister, and he wanted the wisest of the 3 to be it. So, he devised a little test to see which was wisest.

The king had the 3 ambassadors sit in a circle (triangle?) facing each other. Then he showed them 5 little stones in his hand. Three of the stones were white; two of them were black.

Next, the king walked around behind the 3 ambassadors, and placed a little white stone in the top front of the turban of each, so that each could see the stones of the others, but he couldn't see his own stone. Without revealing that he still had the 2 black stones in his hand, the king tucked them away in a secret pocket in his cloak.

Then the king said, "The one who can tell me the color of the stone in his own turban can be the prime minister. No talking. No cheating. No mirrors. And if you guess, and guess wrong, it's off with your head."

Well, the guys sat around for a little while, wondering what to make of it. Finally, one of the ambassadors said, "I can't figure this thing out. And it isn't worth potentially losing my head over by guessing. So, I give up." A little while later a second ambassador said words similar, and gave up as well.

The final guy jumped up and said, "I have  white one!" He knew he had a white one. He wasn't guessing. There is a logical way to figure out how he KNEW that he had a white one. How did he know that he had a white one?

All the info that you need to figure out how he logically knew, is contained in the above riddle. How did he know? If you figure it out, apply that kind of thinking to the marvels of nature around you, and you will start to see God.

If there is scientific proof... Write it up and collect your Nobel prize.  In science all you have to do is present your proof. Why has this not been done yet? It would take such little effort.
Spoiler alert - "Faith", the belief in something despite scientific proof, is not a proof of anything except your ability to imagine.

Well you seem a gentleman and that's what's important to me, more important than philosophical viewpoint.  

But I will probably remain agnostic for the rest of my life, I don't think god will ever objectively be proved to exist or not.

You don't realize that we, who haven't even been able to discover and uncover the complexities of the universe, certainly have a long way to go to understand where He comes from? What does it mean to be "outside of the universe?" We can't think in that direction because everything we are revolves around the things of this universe.

Yes, He is far more complex than the universe. In fact, He is so different that the word "complex" doesn't really hold any meaning with regard to Him. We can't conceive of anything like what He is. The word "different" is, perhaps, billions, or trillions, of times too weak to express how different He is.

We might as well use the simple words of the Bible to see the description of God. We simply can't comprehend any more than that.

You didn't answer where this complex creature that makes universes come from.
Nothing?
And since he must me far more complex than a universe, why cant a less complex thing like the universe come from the same thing?

Exactly! As you suggest. The argument stands for God, as well.

And as I suggest, we ALL take everything on a bit of faith.

While it might be true that we can't "drill a hole" in some hypothetical God-wall, we don't have to. All we have to do is look at nature to see that God exists. How can we tell from nature? The complexity of nature is so great that we can't begin to comprehend how the universe might have come into existence.

The Theory of Evolution has remained a theory for as long as it has, simply because scientists keep saying it is a theory. The Theory of Evolution has been proven through science, over and over again throughout the last 10 decades or so, that it is not even worthy of being considered a theory, much less a reality.

Nature doesn't prove God. Yet, the evidences in nature are so great that it wouldn't take much more to push the observations into proof.

A far greater mystery is, with all the tremendous evidence pointing at God, why are so many people so afraid of Him that they try to push Him out of their lives to the point of firmly objecting to even acknowledging that He might exist? And this is done by the same people - the scientists - who wholeheartedly claim to be looking for truth. Amazing!

existence of god problem pertain more to philosophy/theology, not science.

i remember only the onthologic proof of Anselm of Canterbury, it left me unsatisfied 

all the story here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

With a wall we could all carry out the same experiment:

Take a drill, a Black and Decker is fine, and drill a hole to determine with certainty what is behind the surface layer, have witnesses to observe the experiment if you wish.

The same cannot be done with your hypothetical "god".

I agree that observing something may bring it into existence (and no experiment could prove otherwise), but that argument also stands for your "god" and so you cannot use it without pulling the rug out from under your very own position. In fact thinking such thoughts would make the logical reality most likely that we are running in a simulation that only renders what is being observed.

The fact of the matter is that what is known as "science" only considers things tangible and observable through experiment as real, "god" simply does not fall into this category.

Stop right now, and look at the wall. No, seriously, stop what you are doing and look at the wall. I don't know if your wall is papered with wallpaper, or if you have paneling, or if it is simply painted. But whatever it is, how do you know that there is anything behind/beyond the surface of the wall?

You might have seen the wall built. You might have only tapped the wall with your knuckles, and it felt solid. You might have even put your fist through that wall at one time or another. But how do you know for a fact that there is anything behind/beyond the surface of that wall right now? For all we know, observing the substance behind the surface of the wall is the thing that brings that substance into existence, and that it really wasn't there before we brought it into existence through some form of observation.

The point is, how much evidence do you have to see in nature before you can postulate within yourself that God must indeed exist? EVERYTHING in life exists partially by faith. Nature seems to show that God exists. The surface of the wall seems to indicate that there is some kind of solidity behind the surface. But until you stand face to face with whatever, you have to live, at least a little, in faith.

ALL people live in faith many different ways throughout their whole lives. Meeting God in person is the only pure proof for His existence. But the evidence that He exists is great, far greater than the constant babbling of the scientists that evolution exists. In their babbling they live in faith just like everyone else.

There simply can't exist a proof that god exists! It just doesn't work that way. God can only exist for people who believe he/she/it does. All those 'scientific' proofs are bogus, if you ask me!

The title of this topic - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/from-zero-to-one-billion-in-3-years-757600 - reminded me that evolutionary scientists go "From ZERO to ONE" in 3 Billion years!

This is half true. God DOES exist in each of us. But he also exists as Himself, both "outside the universe," and filling it entirely.

The universe is so young there is NO device that is capable of telling us how old the universe is, since it would need to include the void that clearly existed before the vibratory sounds were triggered. This void would also need to be added to the answer, since without it, the space has nowhere to exist..

I believe that god lies within and you must have a faith in yourself which means you are having a faith in God. These are un-explainable theories