Topic: [SDC] ShadowCash Uncensored: Zeuner, Zero Knowledge, Zero Trust. What Happened? - page 5. (Read 23480 times)

It seems that most people around here agree that smooth is behaving unprofessionally and unethically with his constant biased criticisms of competitor coins.  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmraeon-developer-smooth-investigation-1151565

Its all too obvious what he is doing here. 

The standard I'm using is to give clear credit to other's work when using it. There's nothing wrong with using the work (especially in the case of open source which is designed to be reused and built upon). Just give credit clearly, and don't take credit for something that is not original. or leave the impression of originality where none (or significantly less) exists.


I agree that: 1. "Whitepapers" are often primarily a marketing tool, and 2. They don't always make specific in-text citations.

However, that's different from failing to make clear what is actually new or different about the solution being sold.

Failing to do so can be reasonably criticized on misleading, vague, and/or overly-hyped sales grounds in addition to plagiarism.

But ultimately it doesn't matter what you think of 'standards' and 'ethics'. What really matters is not what the white papers say about it, it is fact that ShadowChat is fundamentally a rip-off of Bitmessage with little to no differentiation and ShodowSend is fundamentally a rip-off off Cryptonote with little to no differentiation, both of which are well-recognized now, and even somewhat acknowledged by the developer.

If people want to continue to dig into the history of where the project came from, how it operated, and the motives of why it was presented in that manner, I guess it can't be prevented. People have "hobbies", as CH calls it.

^THIS. and only this.

To argue against is just stupid.

Curious, what standard of whitepaper creation are you referring to when making these claims?

I've been looking into whitepapers vs research papers and found various sources that don't mention in-text citations for whitepapers as they are mainly used as marketing tools to explain how a problem was solved by the subject of the whitepaper. For research papers, I fully agree but I don't think either of SDC's papers fall within the realm of research.

In-text citations seem to be more of a courtesy when it comes to whitepapers.

Child_harold, you're welcome to reply to this but I will not respond to you.

As I explained earlier, "in the references" is not good enough if you don't explain how your work relates to prior work. (And in the case of bitmessage, it wasn't even in the references at all until called out on it, as I cited above, though cryptonote was always in the list of references for shadowsend, but also without explaining the relationship).

On the matter of "written from scratch" and "written in python":

Electrum is written in Python
Multibit is written in Java
btcd is written in Go
Bitcoin Core is written in C++

The code for all of these (or their underlying libraries at least) were written from scratch. None of them claim to innovative new systems (other than Bitcoin Core in its earliest versions of course) nor anything other than implementations of Bitcoin or wallets built to work with Bitcoin using the Bitcoin protocol.

They don't have their own ripped-off white papers, that describe the Bitcoin protocol as if it is something new, without explaining the relationship to prior work.

In cases where the above systems add something new, it is clearly documented which part is new (for example SPV and bloom filters in the case of Multibit/bitcoinj or Electrum's servers) and which part is based on Bitcoin itself (blockchain, transactions, etc.).

Where is it documented which parts (if any) of ShadowChat and ShadowSend are new and which parts are implementations of existing systems or clones of existing systems? Certainly not in either white paper, that's for sure.

See the difference?

[11:00:06] Spencer Lievens: first things is first, the other day I decided to do a search on bitcointalk for DarkSilk and see what has been said, if anything at all, in any other thread apart from the Silk thread. There were a  few results. Two threads that gave results were shadowcoin related threads.
[11:00:59] Spencer Lievens: first result I checked was the main thread, people bitching that you had worked on darksilk code and spent time doing that, I set them straight, said you had done 1 job, gitian, been paid, did a good job, isn't a part of the team and that Ryno is all theirs.
[11:01:05] Spencer Lievens: then I checked the second result
[11:01:10] Spencer Lievens: another shadowcoin thread
[11:01:18] Spencer Lievens: about the whitepaper, shadowchat etc.
[11:01:32] Spencer Lievens: some guy kicking off because you used bitmessage but didn't cite them in your whitepaper
[11:01:42] Spencer Lievens: even though I'm guessing you didn't write the whitepaper
[11:01:49] Spencer Lievens: damn he was pissed
[11:01:54] Spencer Lievens: lol
[11:02:13] Spencer Lievens: so I need to clear this up as I'm writing MY whitepaper

[13:17:23] Rynomster (ShadowCoin): shadowchat is bitmessage?
[13:17:32] Rynomster (ShadowCoin): shadowcash was written from scratch..
[13:19:02] Rynomster (ShadowCoin): bitmessage is written in python...
[13:19:49] Rynomster (ShadowCoin): http://www.shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcoin-p2p-em.pdf <---
[13:19:56] Rynomster (ShadowCoin): bitmessage is in there in the references

What you all also need to realise is that Rynomster develops and stays well away from bitcointalk and all the shadow related stuff here on bitcointalk is dealt with by community leaders etc.

I guess around these parts of the interwebs its easy to go around and shout SCAM and in most cases you would probably be right.  benthach looking at you here.  Moderated thread - must be a scam, improperly cited whitepaper- scam, road maps and sleek graphics- scam scam scam. 

We had an update from the team yesterday and apparently its hilarious that we the community is being kept informed on the progress of what they are working on.  Should we not have updates, would that be more hilarious?  Here is the update if you care to look: http://blog.shadowproject.io/2015/12/07/development-update-december/

Shadow is an open source project and everyone is free to have a look for themselves at the code and what it has achieved over the last year and a half.  Its still here and still going stronger than ever and don't forget how big of an undertaking it is and as far as I can see they are way ahead of the race.  How many contenders are left for the first truly anonymous decentralized marketplace?   

smooth, if you could develop half as good as ryno then maybe you would be able to do something with the two coins you are supposed to be coding on. 

CH, I hope you get well soon.   

Lmao how many accounts is this shitstick posting from in this thread?  

You're a BIG RED RETARD

Ethereum already working on it with transparency and proper documentation/information, you call Cloak a scam, if you knew how many of those scammers jumped to work on shadow you would see it for what it is, a big scam , no need to debate, time will show how this is just another hyped cinni 2 with non transparency at all,  deleting everything that gets posted on the ANN is a BIG red flag also, haven't you noticed, Only people that wants to hide something so you buy into their scam will give you a thousand excuses for having it that way.

the shadowscam have developed nothing, all they have are copy/paste and deleted all traces of credential back to original owners. like you said, they're or he's good with sleek graphics and buzz words. oh! yes! attacking other coins so it can ride on it hype.

again and again if someone would of listen or read my posts they would of save ton of btc.

That's a great point, as long as it works it doesn't matter where it came from.  The basic idea behind what their trying to build has been floating around for some time, earliest I had heard it discussed was cloakcoin, but it's likely the idea was around before that.  The plan is simple; build an anonymous currency, and with a decentralized market to prevent government shut downs and exit scams, you have the first real successor to the silk road, and a platform that could see some serious cash flow (it's estimated that over a billion in USD went through the Silk Road).

It's such a good idea, that it has been used by as least 5 different scams that I can name off the top of my head; Cloak, Razor, Stealthcoin, Sling, and Crave, all of these playing off of the same promise of a decentralized anonymous market.

Personally, I think it's more of "when" rather than "if" something like this is made, and if you spot it early, you've found a gold mine so to speak.

For now I am leaning towards cautious optimism about the Shadow Project (have been for a while).  But for anyone that doubts the project, the question you should be asking is "if not Shadow, then who?",  the potential for a project like this is too great for me to believe that no one is actively pursuing it.  There are other projects focused on improving anonymity, and there are projects that are working on decentralized markets, but to the best of my knowledge no other project is attempting to do both, and to be honest I find that somewhat perplexing.

Yeah , same happened with cinnicoin that is how they gather so much money and then just leave the projects to die,
It can still get one last pump when they try to push out the news or their market but very risky and it will die like cinni did just after that, they did same strategy of hyping before leaving over there.

I'm going to stay out of the Shadowcash controversy, but I must say... they are some of the best in the business when it comes to PR... road maps, buzz words, sleek graphics... they almost convinced me to invest.

It is still too risky at this point, but if the developers deliver it could be a successful project. It doesn't matter what *open sourced* community they got the idea for their X, Y or Z feature, they could still be successful regardless.

LOL

Aww you got me!

All hail THEREALENFORCER!

I’ll come clean and admit that I’m not actually gonna waste mine and everybody else’s time plagiarising another person’s whitepaper and trying to pass it off as my own. In other words I am not currently working on a whitepaper entitled BitCash: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System by Child_Satoshi and Introvert.

I beg your pardon  

Except you're not are you. The only thing you're working on is yet another histrionic butthurt shitpost. I can hardly wait.  

Hilarious.

I'm working on my own white paper:

BitCash: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System.

It'll have all the references of Nakamoto's paper plus the Nakamoto paper itself. I think it could be a real winner.

PS 14

Lmfao this entire thread is hilarious. 13 full pages of a retard masturbating. I've never seen such a snivelling butthurt little bitch in all my life.  

ROFL , while they keep ignoring you they just shared the 5th update of the update of the last update of the coming update!

This is hilarious

Y'all have lost your damn minds for still going on about this crap. Really? Citing where shadowchat picked out it's guts from is your issue? Like the smallest little bonus built into the innovative shit is what you have a problem with? And if I remember right the last citing issue there was a problem with turned out to be a nonstarter because the source was mentioned later.

LOL'ing @ smooth! Jesus you just can't help it can you. This guy has issues, stop stoking the fire. lol