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Topic: [SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 99. (Read 1289635 times)

legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128
February 14, 2016, 07:22:00 AM
What would you rather we talk about?

Where you go from here.

-You very nearly released a market with a critical bug. The SDC Team has pushed headstrong into dev of market before really testing/peer reviewing the anon.

-Could there be more critical bugs?

-If Tecnovert is no longer in the picture then how will SDC manage without a cryptographer

-Asking why an official Team blogpost was released prematurely claiming anon unbroken when in fact was broken.

-Asking why The Team could not find the bug after 10+ hrs of internal testing without more help from the bug finder.

-How to reassure users they can trust the anon?

i.e. some attempt to learn from mistakes made. pretty basic stuff really.



I can't say anything thing else than this man is telling the truth. The dev(s) made huge mistakes. Shadow is a big disappointment for guys like me, who have invested a lot of money in shadow for more than a year. There is actually one thing, I don't really understand, why are there still so many buyers? After the news, I expected SDC to go minus 80% or so. Is this problem so easy to solve?
Putting it all together, the big mistakes, the time we have been waiting, I only can conclude this project looks very fragile.

Nah, Shadowcoin is completely fine. The issue has been vastly overblown, aimed for maximum damage towards Shadowcoin. It speaks volumes how a FUD army of newbie accounts comes in to talk shit about the project, and promote their own. (In this case Monero) If anything, I'm disappointed that parts of their community can behave so lowly.

By nature, no software is secure and claiming otherwise is naive. Bitcoin, Monero, Shadowcoin, Dash, cannot (and do not) claim that their security is impenetrable. Human mistakes happen and code is imperfect. Most serious cryptocurrencies (including Shadowcoin) even have a bug bounty program for this precise reason.

While I'm glad Shnoe pointed out this major security flew, he went about in the wrong way. The standard professional (and respectful) course of action is to resolve security issues in a private manner -not by making a public blog post about it. Privately exposing bugs is not about "withholding information" or "hiding incompetence" or anything of the sort. People privately expose bugs to reducing the chance of exploiting the bug, and giving the developers time to properly resolve the bug.

Now give Shadowcoin some leniency, stop spreading FUD, and move on with your life.

Smooth already pointed out that it's not the best way to make it privately and in my eyes he is absolutely right with that:


code: You're wrong about the minimizing the damage. I get what you're trying to say, but you occasionally leave out the possibility that such disclosures can cause (financial) damage without even having to be true.

There is no way to minimize the "financial damage" by reporting it privately, except to allow insiders to trade ahead of everyone else. Brilliant idea.

If the report were untrue, that would be a different matter. It certainly was true. If anything, more financial damage was caused by the false "Deanonymized? Nope" statement put out by the Shadowcash team about the report being incorrect and that it couldn't be reproduced after 10 hours of work by your core developers. That may have misled people into making trades on the basis of a false statement (yours). That's what I call financial damage.

Maybe you guys should have worked on it privately instead of making a statement to (falsely) calm the market when you didn't know what you were talking about.

sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 250
February 14, 2016, 06:36:37 AM
why too stout fud in this tread Huh Huh Huh
hero member
Activity: 778
Merit: 1000
February 14, 2016, 05:50:27 AM
What would you rather we talk about?

Where you go from here.

-You very nearly released a market with a critical bug. The SDC Team has pushed headstrong into dev of market before really testing/peer reviewing the anon.

-Could there be more critical bugs?

-If Tecnovert is no longer in the picture then how will SDC manage without a cryptographer

-Asking why an official Team blogpost was released prematurely claiming anon unbroken when in fact was broken.

-Asking why The Team could not find the bug after 10+ hrs of internal testing without more help from the bug finder.

-How to reassure users they can trust the anon?

i.e. some attempt to learn from mistakes made. pretty basic stuff really.



I can't say anything thing else than this man is telling the truth. The dev(s) made huge mistakes. Shadow is a big disappointment for guys like me, who have invested a lot of money in shadow for more than a year. There is actually one thing, I don't really understand, why are there still so many buyers? After the news, I expected SDC to go minus 80% or so. Is this problem so easy to solve?
Putting it all together, the big mistakes, the time we have been waiting, I only can conclude this project looks very fragile.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
February 14, 2016, 05:23:02 AM
What would you rather we talk about?

Where you go from here.

-You very nearly released a market with a critical bug. The SDC Team has pushed headstrong into dev of market before really testing/peer reviewing the anon.

-Could there be more critical bugs?

-If Tecnovert is no longer in the picture then how will SDC manage without a cryptographer

-Asking why an official Team blogpost was released prematurely claiming anon unbroken when in fact was broken.

-Asking why The Team could not find the bug after 10+ hrs of internal testing without more help from the bug finder.

-How to reassure users they can trust the anon?

i.e. some attempt to learn from mistakes made. pretty basic stuff really.

hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
Avatars are overrated.
February 14, 2016, 01:27:09 AM
I am not really sure how much lower you Monero crew can go now, you have even put a neg rating on our irc bot rutherford.
It's a bot. Bot postings break forum rules.
legendary
Activity: 1044
Merit: 1050
February 14, 2016, 12:07:48 AM
I am not really sure how much lower you Monero crew can go now, you have even put a neg rating on our irc bot rutherford.



on the bot. lol I'll have to agree that was really petty.
hero member
Activity: 725
Merit: 501
Boycott Qatar 2022
February 13, 2016, 11:27:45 PM
I am not really sure how much lower you Monero crew can go now, you have even put a neg rating on our irc bot rutherford.

sr. member
Activity: 624
Merit: 250
February 13, 2016, 09:38:03 PM
hayato: Well this was an absolutely enlightening read.  I enjoyed picking up half price SDC and the future will be bright.  Or...in shade.  Whichever you prefer.  Time tells all.  I sold all my Monero this morning before I even knew about this incident, Monero isn't interesting to me whatsoever.   SDC is and that's something that fundamentally separates the two.  Everything else is mendable and reinforceable.  You can dress up a pig as fancy as you like, but it's still a pig.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
February 13, 2016, 09:33:11 PM
Good post LiteBit, but I'll take issue on one point:

  • Shadow's ring signature cryptography protected only the sender's identity and that now appears to be broken. Dual-stealth addresses protect the receiver's identity and that cryptography is not broken.

Agree that stealth addresses are not broken. Disagree that ring signatures protect only the sender's identity. They also serve (together with stealth) to resist blockchain analysis, so breaking them makes the overall chain easier to analyze and potentially hurts everyone's privacy.

But as you say the bug can be fixed and the feature hasn't been used that much in the past anyway.



+1, although I have one thing to add:

"ShadowCash is mathematically broken. I urge all SDC supporters to join Monero."

That thread was made by a community member, not an official core-team member or Monero Research Lab member. It's an opensource project, the core-team can't stop community members from posting it unfortunately.
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
February 13, 2016, 09:28:43 PM

Things to do besides ensure the privacy and safety of shadow users:

1. Go shopping.
2. Worry about Ryan.
3. Bash monero.
4. Troll other coins.
5. Baghold.

Did I miss anything?
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
February 13, 2016, 09:26:47 PM
The code can be fixed but not my head.

The above statement is not quite true. You can replace your head with a thicker one. Does this look familiar?

I told everyone here that the fud team bagholders would start dumping this coin after this last release. Longandshort and the rest of the "team" did just that. That's why you haven't heard from them. The fud team who controls the bitcointalk account deleted my posts and now you guys are the new bagholders. The dev is complicit in this, although he is getting played too. He put in countless hours probably to clone bytecoin and his shadows are worth less than when he started.

The tech here is nothing new. It's a rehash of bytecoin. Congrats on the devs for porting it to bitcoin, but you have literally nothing new here. Even stealth addresses were a port of Peter Todd's python implementation.

As far as recruiting talent, it won't happen. No real devs will come near the nutcases that come out to troll for this coin after they dump and refill their bags. They would probably have to recruit from other coins, but the fud team has fudded so many other coins, that no devs would want to get their hands dirty in this pit of trolls. Play it safe, dump on the next pump and go buy monero or boolberry, they have the best devs.

I warned you before and I've warned you again. My post will be deleted, but the truth is a hard pill. If you read this, heed my advice.


RyanOlstren0, Mar 2, 2015

350 days later the same shits in your head haven't evaporated. Are you born like this or your medications are somewhat ineffective? Do you want me to prescribe a new treatment?


You are seriously worried about me when the incompetent devs made a poor copy of cryptonote and jeopardized the privacy and safety of this coin's users?

Yeah, let's go shopping.
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
February 13, 2016, 09:22:12 PM
The code can be fixed but not my head.

The above statement is not quite true. You can replace your head with a thicker one. Does this look familiar?

I told everyone here that the fud team bagholders would start dumping this coin after this last release. Longandshort and the rest of the "team" did just that. That's why you haven't heard from them. The fud team who controls the bitcointalk account deleted my posts and now you guys are the new bagholders. The dev is complicit in this, although he is getting played too. He put in countless hours probably to clone bytecoin and his shadows are worth less than when he started.

The tech here is nothing new. It's a rehash of bytecoin. Congrats on the devs for porting it to bitcoin, but you have literally nothing new here. Even stealth addresses were a port of Peter Todd's python implementation.

As far as recruiting talent, it won't happen. No real devs will come near the nutcases that come out to troll for this coin after they dump and refill their bags. They would probably have to recruit from other coins, but the fud team has fudded so many other coins, that no devs would want to get their hands dirty in this pit of trolls. Play it safe, dump on the next pump and go buy monero or boolberry, they have the best devs.

I warned you before and I've warned you again. My post will be deleted, but the truth is a hard pill. If you read this, heed my advice.


RyanOlstren0, Mar 2, 2015

350 days later the same shits in your head haven't evaporated. Are you born like this or your medications are somewhat ineffective? Do you want me to prescribe a new treatment?


I was right about that analysis, you know. The price is down 50% from when I posted that. It will go down more.

I'm flattered though, I didn't read your backposts. Is there anything in there I should look at?
hero member
Activity: 671
Merit: 505
February 13, 2016, 09:09:28 PM
The code can be fixed but not my head.

The above statement is not quite true. You can replace your head with a thicker one. Does this look familiar?

I told everyone here that the fud team bagholders would start dumping this coin after this last release. Longandshort and the rest of the "team" did just that. That's why you haven't heard from them. The fud team who controls the bitcointalk account deleted my posts and now you guys are the new bagholders. The dev is complicit in this, although he is getting played too. He put in countless hours probably to clone bytecoin and his shadows are worth less than when he started.

The tech here is nothing new. It's a rehash of bytecoin. Congrats on the devs for porting it to bitcoin, but you have literally nothing new here. Even stealth addresses were a port of Peter Todd's python implementation.

As far as recruiting talent, it won't happen. No real devs will come near the nutcases that come out to troll for this coin after they dump and refill their bags. They would probably have to recruit from other coins, but the fud team has fudded so many other coins, that no devs would want to get their hands dirty in this pit of trolls. Play it safe, dump on the next pump and go buy monero or boolberry, they have the best devs.

I warned you before and I've warned you again. My post will be deleted, but the truth is a hard pill. If you read this, heed my advice.


RyanOlstren0, Mar 2, 2015

350 days later the same shits in your head haven't evaporated. Are you born like this or your medications are somewhat ineffective? Do you want me to prescribe a new treatment?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
February 13, 2016, 08:03:17 PM
Good post LiteBit, but I'll take issue on one point:

  • Shadow's ring signature cryptography protected only the sender's identity and that now appears to be broken. Dual-stealth addresses protect the receiver's identity and that cryptography is not broken.

Agree that stealth addresses are not broken. Disagree that ring signatures protect only the sender's identity. They also serve (together with stealth) to resist blockchain analysis, so breaking them makes the overall chain easier to analyze and potentially hurts everyone's privacy.

But as you say the bug can be fixed and the feature hasn't been used that much in the past anyway.

legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000
February 13, 2016, 07:47:47 PM
So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?
....


....


Actually, if you read up thread, the issues around quantum computers have some context that you should pay attention to.

edit

start here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13871423
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
Avatars are overrated.
February 13, 2016, 07:36:24 PM
So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?

Screw it, lets go shopping.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.


It's how they keep their ignorant community in the dark.


This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.

ps lets not b nasty re community altho in this case its pretty much wheatclove, erok and…
What would you rather we talk about? obviously the ring sig bug has been talked about to death. Are we now not allowed to talk about normal technology driven stuff because ch and his circlejerk troll buddy say we cant? You two aren't done trolling yet? You two had NOTHING to contribute to any of this except "neener neener" and now you are mocking normal conversation? What is wrong with you people?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
February 13, 2016, 07:26:08 PM
So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?

Screw it, lets go shopping.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.


It's how they keep their ignorant community in the dark.


This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.

ps lets not b nasty re community altho in this case its pretty much wheatclove, erok and…
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
February 13, 2016, 07:22:36 PM
So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?

Screw it, lets go shopping.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.


It's how they keep their ignorant community in the dark.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
February 13, 2016, 07:19:01 PM
So now Shadowsend has been deanonymized the next step is to banter quantum stuff?

Screw it, lets go shopping.

This post will be deleted in approx 5 mins, like so many before.
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
Avatars are overrated.
February 13, 2016, 05:33:52 PM
So I'm going to be a broken record on this issue. I'll repeat it a few more times, probably, until it sinks in or someone from the dev team tells me to piss off. Feel free to use those words.

People are actively working on quantum computer chips. As far as I can tell, only zerocash users have some level of comfort that they won't be affected.

Zerocash is not quantum safe by any means. If that is your concern, do not go there.

(Nor are any of these other coins, so please don't take this as FUD or pumping of anything.)

Quantum-safe cryptographic methods are a current area of research. Zerocash may or may not be desirable for other reasons. Quantum computers are not one of them.

Thanks, all this cryptography talk is confusing me, physics is easier.

People are in awe of the possibility of quantum computing because of its potential to bypass the limitations of c (the speed), however the true limitations in computing power are found in the limited thermal and electrical conductivity of existing materials. (Remember superconducting computers?) What limits the mining speed in your 16 nm ASIC is not c but the ability to get rid of the heat and move the information around within and out of the chip. A practical quantum computing device will face these same limitations as soon as the information moves from the quantum to the classical domain which is where it has to be for us to use it. Thus I would not worry about quantum computing destroying crypto. We will do that first.

It doesn't seem like quantum chips are a pipe dream. http://www.zmescience.com/research/technology/two-qubit-quantum-computer-0432/


something interesting to think about is the amount of computations they will be able to handle is exponentially greater than any 16nm asic or any fpga setup. Heat being the limiting factor they should still be leaps and bounds more powerful. All cryptography will be looking at things differently when quantum attacks are prevalent. Neat reads btw coins101.
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