Sea Piracy, it's effect on the local economy - page 2.

Ozero

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Quote from: Hispo on March 02, 2024, 07:44:53 PM

I don't believe it would be so easy as we initially assume it would be, though. In order to fight piracy, the government of the interested country would need to invest a ton of money in vessels with military capabilities and also they would need to keep those vessels equipped with weapons and fuel for military to guard the coasts of Africa. It is not an easy task, it is actually a logistics challenge.
What I have seen corporations do to safeguard their vessels is keeping weapons on board and even attached to the vessel, so they can shoot close to the boats of the pirates and persuade them from getting close enough to get on board, though, the pirates know about this tactic and know those in the big cargo are unlikely to shoot directly at them first. So the rush for the ladders and get it.

I have read for those people who get involved in piracy, it is very tempting to do so, there have been cases of pirates becoming millionaires and being able to keep several wives after only one successful heist against an international vessel. For that kind of quality of life, they are willing to risk their integrity.

In the case of the Houthis, it is much more complex than primitive attacks by loosely organized pirates on merchant ships using motor boats. The Houthis are firing rockets and drones at ships in the Red Sea from Yemeni territory, where they have long been established. Each such shelling is a terrorist act and the country from whose territory the missiles and drones are launched is responsible. In this case, it will be ineffective to only defend against incoming missiles and drones. It is necessary to destroy the launch platforms and the missiles and drones themselves in their storage areas.

The Yemeni government should be warned that if they cannot restore order themselves, then these places will be hit accordingly. I think that’s what the US and UK did before attacking Houthi missile launchers and storage depots. Yemen is now experiencing an environmental disaster off its shores due to the sinking of the Rubymar ship, which was carrying fertilizers, as a result of a Houthi missile attack, and a fuel oil spill.

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Quote from: Troytech on March 01, 2024, 03:43:29 AM

IMO government can solve the problem of sea pirates easily if they wanted to, unless someone is also benefiting from their actions, we well know how big business men and crime syndicate s bribe government officials from time to time, and no one can justify kidnapping and stealing as a means to and end for poverty cause at the end of the day they are clearly harming the wrong people, if only they could direct the aggression towards the government then they would have gotten some development by now.

I don't believe it would be so easy as we initially assume it would be, though. In order to fight piracy, the government of the interested country would need to invest a ton of money in vessels with military capabilities and also they would need to keep those vessels equipped with weapons and fuel for military to guard the coasts of Africa. It is not an easy task, it is actually a logistics challenge.
What I have seen corporations do to safeguard their vessels is keeping weapons on board and even attached to the vessel, so they can shoot close to the boats of the pirates and persuade them from getting close enough to get on board, though, the pirates know about this tactic and know those in the big cargo are unlikely to shoot directly at them first. So the rush for the ladders and get it.

I have read for those people who get involved in piracy, it is very tempting to do so, there have been cases of pirates becoming millionaires and being able to keep several wives after only one successful heist against an international vessel. For that kind of quality of life, they are willing to risk their integrity.

Argoo

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Quote from: Kakmakr on February 28, 2024, 01:06:45 AM

The main problem behind this, is corrupt governments. Take Nigeria as an example, they are a Oil rich country and the citizens should flourish, but most of those riches are wasted on a few government fat cats and their friend and family.

Yesterday, loads of people were trampled to death in Lagos, because the Nigerian custom service paused the sale of seized bags of RICE.

People will turn to crime to survive.. and the criminals are stealing at the top and turning a blind eye to the pirates that are attacking ships on the trade routes.

The problem of government corruption in Nigeria is first and foremost a problem for the Nigerian people. After all, other states do not have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of Nigeria. You say that out of desperation, in order to somehow get involved, Nigerians commit crimes. Why don't they unite and kick out their corrupt government? If they lack intelligence and courage, then such a people are doomed to such a miserable existence. Nigerians have themselves to blame for this, but attacking others in the process is reckless and stupid in every way.

DrBeer

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Terrorist gangs like the Houthis and their cowardly masters (like the Iranian regime) are framing the Houthis. They will now be given some time to "prove themselves". By doing so, they will sign their "death sentence" - a terrorist group that disrupts civil transportation, endangering the lives of citizens of different countries..... And that's it ! There were the Hussites and there are no more Hussites. Playing with other people's lives is a favorite game of cowardly totalitarian terrorist regimes. I hope the not very smart "puppets" of their games will realize this at some point....

PS Does everyone know who suffered the biggest losses from the idiotic terrorist attacks of the Hussites ?

Troytech

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IMO government can solve the problem of sea pirates easily if they wanted to, unless someone is also benefiting from their actions, we well know how big business men and crime syndicate s bribe government officials from time to time, and no one can justify kidnapping and stealing as a means to and end for poverty cause at the end of the day they are clearly harming the wrong people, if only they could direct the aggression towards the government then they would have gotten some development by now.

Kakmakr

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The main problem behind this, is corrupt governments. Take Nigeria as an example, they are a Oil rich country and the citizens should flourish, but most of those riches are wasted on a few government fat cats and their friend and family.

Yesterday, loads of people were trampled to death in Lagos, because the Nigerian custom service paused the sale of seized bags of RICE.

People will turn to crime to survive.. and the criminals are stealing at the top and turning a blind eye to the pirates that are attacking ships on the trade routes.

Ozero

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Quote from: DeathAngel on December 20, 2023, 06:41:49 AM

Sea piracy has a detrimental effect on local economies. It disrupts trade routes, increases shipping costs, deters investment & tourism, reduces business activity & hampers livelihood opportunities. Coastal communities suffer from economic instability, higher security costs & limited growth prospects. Governments divert resources from development initiatives to enhance maritime security. Sea piracy undermines economic growth, stability & prosperity in affected areas.

Maritime piracy also has another negative side. This is a threat of environmental disaster in the region.
Yemeni authorities are now seeking international assistance after a Houthi missile hit the UK-registered cargo ship Rubymar in the Red Sea on February 18, while it was carrying
fertilizers - 22,000 tons of sulfoammophos from Saudi Arabia to Bulgaria. Rubymar has hull damage in the main engine area and is already polluting surrounding waters with fuel oil leaks. The Yemeni government called for help to prevent a potential environmental disaster and in an official statement condemned the Houthi attack, which caused extensive damage before 24 crew members were evacuated. A drifting ship is heading towards Yemen's Hanish Islands in the Red Sea.

Later, information also appeared that the cargo ship Rubymar sank after all.

Houthi attacks on shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden have increased since November 19, 2023. Since then, there have been 48 attacks and at least 11 ships damaged.

https://zn.ua/amp/WORLD/v-jemene-khotjat-predotvratit-ekolohicheskuju-katastrofu-khusity-popali-v-sukhohruz-s-udobrenijami-iz-saudovskoj-aravii.html

https://unn.ua/ru/amp/britanskii-korabl-posle-napadeniya-khusitov-tonet-v-krasnom-more

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Quote from: Argoo on December 21, 2023, 02:07:51 AM

Quote from: DeathAngel on December 20, 2023, 06:41:49 AM

Sea piracy has a detrimental effect on local economies. It disrupts trade routes, increases shipping costs, deters investment & tourism, reduces business activity & hampers livelihood opportunities. Coastal communities suffer from economic instability, higher security costs & limited growth prospects. Governments divert resources from development initiatives to enhance maritime security. Sea piracy undermines economic growth, stability & prosperity in affected areas.

I agree that piracy in any case negatively affects the image and economy of the countries where this illegal fishing is carried out. Areas where piracy is recorded try to bypass merchant ships, which means states there will lose profits from a decrease in the number of trade transactions.

Piracy is not carried out by the state, but by individuals. Today they can capture a merchant ship, and tomorrow they will attack the decoy ship and destroy all the pirates. After all, international society will not tolerate such facts of open violence for a long time. Piracy must be fought extremely harshly, and if you try to attack merchant ships, everyone must simply be destroyed. This is the only way to restore order and calm in such regions.

Maritime piracy is a “light version” of terrorism on the water. And as we know, terrorism is a variant of the “bastard business.” Let me explain why! Because classic business uses the labor of hired workers who create added value, and terrorism uses the LIVES of both the supporters-executors of the terrorist ideology and their victims. At the same time, the “cream” is skimmed not by those who put on a suicide bomber’s belt, or go out to sea to attack a civilian ship, but those who live in luxurious houses have servants, all the requisites of a rich and prosperous life, and huge reserves of money. Because they are not in a hurry to reach the “72 Furies”, but want to live well-fed, richly and happily in this world, and create the same conditions for their children and loved ones. At the expense of the LIVES of those who are subject to their propaganda and indoctrination. By the way, this is why the leaders of such groups/regimes are categorically against progress, education, and freedoms - they need an undeveloped, backward population, because such a society is most susceptible to propaganda and indoctrination, even the most idiotic ideas

Argoo

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Quote from: DeathAngel on December 20, 2023, 06:41:49 AM

Sea piracy has a detrimental effect on local economies. It disrupts trade routes, increases shipping costs, deters investment & tourism, reduces business activity & hampers livelihood opportunities. Coastal communities suffer from economic instability, higher security costs & limited growth prospects. Governments divert resources from development initiatives to enhance maritime security. Sea piracy undermines economic growth, stability & prosperity in affected areas.

I agree that piracy in any case negatively affects the image and economy of the countries where this illegal fishing is carried out. Areas where piracy is recorded try to bypass merchant ships, which means states there will lose profits from a decrease in the number of trade transactions.

Piracy is not carried out by the state, but by individuals. Today they can capture a merchant ship, and tomorrow they will attack the decoy ship and destroy all the pirates. After all, international society will not tolerate such facts of open violence for a long time. Piracy must be fought extremely harshly, and if you try to attack merchant ships, everyone must simply be destroyed. This is the only way to restore order and calm in such regions.

pooya87

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Quote from: STT on December 18, 2023, 12:58:05 PM

Primarily I would use China as an example because they have been known to take over the coast line fishing of East Africa, due to their ongoing wars and lack of personal representation or a strong navy the nations there see a continual raiding of their natural resources by boats thousands of miles from home.

That's a good point about resource, this is indeed a growing concern and it is global. As the (human) population grows and in cases the fish population shrinks, fishermen will start venturing further and sometimes in other territorial waters. For example we've seen clashes between England and France over fishing rights and they've seized other country's fishing boats in the past too.

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Quote from: justdimin on December 20, 2023, 07:06:34 AM

Quote from: Kelward on December 19, 2023, 09:48:46 AM

I believe that piracy still thrives on the ocean because there are powerful individuals that benefits from the criminal activities, if it's not so then the illegal and criminal business will not still be active today, because most of these countries have naval forces that can combat these criminals. Most of these pirates might have been ordinary fishermen that were brainwashed and trained into carrying arms and terrorising genuine ship crews who are doing their legitimate businesses. You'd wonder who arms them with sophisticated weapons and teaches them the commando styles of seizing ships and kidnapping their crews for ransom. Most crimes of theses magnitudes are highly organized, so there has to be deeper questions to be answered in order to find a lasting solution to the menace of these pirates, if not I think that it'll continue business as usual.

The difference is that it's the typical gorilla tactic but in a sea theme instead. Look at USA, are they weak nation in military world? Of course not, they are the biggest nation in the world when we are talking about military, in fact, if we removed nuclear weapons from the world today, they could bulldoze China and Russia together, and yes some Russians and Chinese people (or their fans) will argue against it, but we are talking about multiple times more soldiers and nearly 20 times the finance compared to both combined, so if they do fail, that has to be because they did something dumb, no worries though nuclear weapons prevents that.

All in all, Vietnam still prevailed. Because of gorilla war, and that's the trouble with sea, these are just few people with boats, how can you stop them all at the same time?

There are satellites 🛰️ and drones. I suspect that pirates could be crushed if governments want to do it.

But they allow it for their own agendas.

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Quote from: DeathAngel on December 20, 2023, 06:41:49 AM

Sea piracy has a detrimental effect on local economies. It disrupts trade routes, increases shipping costs, deters investment & tourism, reduces business activity & hampers livelihood opportunities. Coastal communities suffer from economic instability, higher security costs & limited growth prospects. Governments divert resources from development initiatives to enhance maritime security. Sea piracy undermines economic growth, stability & prosperity in affected areas.

As reality has shown, maritime terrorism, in the specific case at hand, has brought 3 global problems:
1. Disruption of global shipping routes from Asia to Europe. This will affect logistics costs, and ultimately the cost of goods. The approximate increase in cost could be around 10-15%. These costs will be borne by the buyers. But will not bankrupt them.
2. The real losers are...the COUNTRIES OF REGION where maritime terrorism is now taking place. I.e. essentially "shooting yourself in the foot", well, or your neighbor's foot

3. And about good - judging by everything we will soon see a tangible response to the terror of pirates, both themselves and their puppeteers. Hopefully this will lead to peace for many decades in the region

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Quote from: Kelward on December 19, 2023, 09:48:46 AM

I believe that piracy still thrives on the ocean because there are powerful individuals that benefits from the criminal activities, if it's not so then the illegal and criminal business will not still be active today, because most of these countries have naval forces that can combat these criminals. Most of these pirates might have been ordinary fishermen that were brainwashed and trained into carrying arms and terrorising genuine ship crews who are doing their legitimate businesses. You'd wonder who arms them with sophisticated weapons and teaches them the commando styles of seizing ships and kidnapping their crews for ransom. Most crimes of theses magnitudes are highly organized, so there has to be deeper questions to be answered in order to find a lasting solution to the menace of these pirates, if not I think that it'll continue business as usual.

The difference is that it's the typical gorilla tactic but in a sea theme instead. Look at USA, are they weak nation in military world? Of course not, they are the biggest nation in the world when we are talking about military, in fact, if we removed nuclear weapons from the world today, they could bulldoze China and Russia together, and yes some Russians and Chinese people (or their fans) will argue against it, but we are talking about multiple times more soldiers and nearly 20 times the finance compared to both combined, so if they do fail, that has to be because they did something dumb, no worries though nuclear weapons prevents that.

All in all, Vietnam still prevailed. Because of gorilla war, and that's the trouble with sea, these are just few people with boats, how can you stop them all at the same time?

DeathAngel

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Sea piracy has a detrimental effect on local economies. It disrupts trade routes, increases shipping costs, deters investment & tourism, reduces business activity & hampers livelihood opportunities. Coastal communities suffer from economic instability, higher security costs & limited growth prospects. Governments divert resources from development initiatives to enhance maritime security. Sea piracy undermines economic growth, stability & prosperity in affected areas.

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Quote from: Kelward on December 19, 2023, 09:48:46 AM

I believe that piracy still thrives on the ocean because there are powerful individuals that benefits from the criminal activities, if it's not so then the illegal and criminal business will not still be active today, because most of these countries have naval forces that can combat these criminals.

I agree with this. Not like this is the only reason why sea piracy thrives but it's part of the reason.
These pirates don't have money to buy ships, boats, guns and ammunition, they're given to them by other people. People that have a share in the business. They have people in high places that sponsor them and give them orders and information. When these orders are coming from the top, it becomes very difficult to battle except you can cut off the hesdbof the snake. And even if you cut off the headbof the snake, another snake will just take over his place because there is money to be made and that seat is vacant.

Another reason I believe ses piracy thrives is because it doesn't directly affect the people in power that havebthe authority to do something about it. They don't care because it's not happening to them. If that route was the route the president of the country uses daily or regularly, it would as safe as possible.

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Piracy and economic growth are not at all the same thing. Pirates do bring in money for local economies, but at what cost? It's only a temporary fix for bigger social and economic problems that won't last. Legal trade is important for a healthy economy, but piracy hurts it. Piracy hurts trust in these important shipping routes by blocking them, which forces ships to take longer, more expensive routes. This makes global trade more expensive. Is this really a "solution"?

Also, think about the effects on the sailors and their families, like the mental pain and physical risks. Is their pain a reasonable price to pay for economic growth? Without a doubt not. We need to change the story. It's not a matter of picking between poor and piracy. It's about giving these towns economic options that will work in the long term. These are the paths we should be looking into: working together with other countries, having proper fishing rights, and making new jobs. A long-term answer that gets to the root of the problem is more important than quick wins that are based on blood and fear

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Quote from: Litzki1990 on December 16, 2023, 12:49:49 PM

The easiest and most cost-effective means of importing and exporting goods is by sea. A study shows that shipping companies face huge financial losses every year in their shipping industry. Some of the reasons for facing huge financial losses include Somalia pirate attacks as well as shipwrecks. Somali pirates are generally very aggressive and target ships that carry large amounts of valuable goods. Pirates take those ships and demand huge ransoms, and when the shipping industry pays the ransom, they release the ships. Due to pirate attacks and extra money paid to pirates, many shipping industries shut down their operations, but with the advancement of technology, some advanced security systems have been added to the ships to prevent pirates from attacking the ships. Due to the use of advanced technology in ships, the presence of pirates has reduced a lot.

I agree that maritime transportation is a cost-effective way to import and export goods. It's unfortunate that piracy and shipwrecks have caused financial losses for shipping companies.
However, it's encouraging to hear that advanced security systems are being implemented to minimize pirate attacks. Technological advancements will continue to play a crucial role in ensuring the safety and efficiency of sea transportation.

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on December 19, 2023, 11:55:10 AM

Quote from: Kelward on December 19, 2023, 09:48:46 AM

I believe that piracy still thrives on the ocean because there are powerful individuals that benefits from the criminal activities, if it's not so then the illegal and criminal business will not still be active today, because most of these countries have naval forces that can combat these criminals. Most of these pirates might have been ordinary fishermen that were brainwashed and trained into carrying arms and terrorising genuine ship crews who are doing their legitimate businesses. You'd wonder who arms them with sophisticated weapons and teaches them the commando styles of seizing ships and kidnapping their crews for ransom. Most crimes of theses magnitudes are highly organized, so there has to be deeper questions to be answered in order to find a lasting solution to the menace of these pirates, if not I think that it'll continue business as usual.

There will be always several people who will need resources and will rely on illegal activities like sea piracy. Not only the naval forces that scare them to start piracy but also the fact that even the crew itself has self-defense weapons such as guns, spikes, etc. which the pirates lack resources for them to enter the ship for looting. Just ordinary fishermen with a lack of experience in battle, since most of the terrorist who are using them lacks the number of men even kids take them as part of their men. Plus some of them are being blackmailed so they have no choice but to agree or else they will be killed. It is really hard to find a solution to this since the root of this problem probably would be poverty and almost every country in the world experience it.

the piracy in the regions that OP mentioned is politically driven since it is allegedly supported by Iran, especially the Houthis rebels in Yemen who recently just shot a ship with their missile.

the Djibotis are on the other side which are also up to no good in this passage. if the ships will decide not to pass in the Red Sea to go around Europe, their supply chain will be delayed for almost a month. consequently, this will affect the supplies in our supermarkets thus indirectly affecting the local economy.

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Quote from: Kelward on December 19, 2023, 09:48:46 AM

I believe that piracy still thrives on the ocean because there are powerful individuals that benefits from the criminal activities, if it's not so then the illegal and criminal business will not still be active today, because most of these countries have naval forces that can combat these criminals. Most of these pirates might have been ordinary fishermen that were brainwashed and trained into carrying arms and terrorising genuine ship crews who are doing their legitimate businesses. You'd wonder who arms them with sophisticated weapons and teaches them the commando styles of seizing ships and kidnapping their crews for ransom. Most crimes of theses magnitudes are highly organized, so there has to be deeper questions to be answered in order to find a lasting solution to the menace of these pirates, if not I think that it'll continue business as usual.

There will be always several people who will need resources and will rely on illegal activities like sea piracy. Not only the naval forces that scare them to start piracy but also the fact that even the crew itself has self-defense weapons such as guns, spikes, etc. which the pirates lack resources for them to enter the ship for looting. Just ordinary fishermen with a lack of experience in battle, since most of the terrorist who are using them lacks the number of men even kids take them as part of their men. Plus some of them are being blackmailed so they have no choice but to agree or else they will be killed. It is really hard to find a solution to this since the root of this problem probably would be poverty and almost every country in the world experience it.

Latviand

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Piracy isn't that profitable anymore, UN or was it NATO have launched the operation Ocean Shield to protect cargo ships from pirates and so far it's effective because piracy rates in the hotbeds of piracy are lowering throughout the years and not to mention that cargo companies are investing in security be it the soft kind of security like barbwires or anti rope railings to lethal security like guards armed to the tooth or mercenaries with their own boats to guide these cargo ships, it's a bad time to be a pirate right now even if we believe it to be a good way to improve the economy of the pirate's country of origin. Most of the money that they're getting isn't going back to the economy, most likely it goes back to guns, drugs and other contrabands.

Topic: Sea Piracy, it's effect on the local economy - page 2. (Read 838 times)