SebastianJu accepts transaction buying/selling bitcointalk accounts

Quickseller

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Quote from: qwk on July 27, 2018, 02:31:31 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 01:21:15 PM

Quote from: qwk on July 26, 2018, 05:29:13 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 02:01:54 AM

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts.

Yes, there are.
The existence of a market for accounts makes "hacking" accounts profitable.
Therefore, a certain percentage of the people whose accounts have been "hacked" are victims of people selling forum accounts.

I don’t think selling accounts makes hacking accounts profitable. If you were to hack my account, and it was not possible to sell my account, you could scam someone with my account

Your argument seems to be "there are other ways to make money from a hacked account, not only selling it".
I can agree to that, but it doesn't really counter my point.
That's basically the same as saying "there are other ways to make money from shooting people, not only contract killing"... Tongue

I disagree. I view your argument to be that the sale of accounts makes hacking accounts profitable, and is therefore the reason accounts are hacked. My counter is that hacking of accounts would still be profitable if the sale of accounts was somehow prohibited.

Quote

The existence of a market for accounts makes "hacking" accounts profitable.

There are other ways to profit from hacking an account other than to sell it.

wizcoin

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Quote

I really loathe account sales.
But I will never judge anyone for escrowing them.

Then anyone can do an escrow with account sales without tagging them?

naturerock

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AT least people have a safe avenue to trade with his escrow service. It's a better option than people being scamme. He's not selling accounts himself, he is just a middleman.

whywefight

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Quote from: qwk on July 24, 2018, 12:58:43 PM

Quote from: Lauda on July 24, 2018, 04:56:01 AM

You can't tag him even if you have proper justification without receiving unjust retaliation (not OgNasty, Seb. himself). Therefore, I highly doubt that anyone will act on this regardless of where they stand on escrowing forum accounts.

I would.

There's just one tiny problem, why I won't:
I simply don't see anything wrong with escrowing a deal that is perfectly legal and even accepted under the rules of this forum.

If I negged that, where should I stop?
Could I also neg the escrows of any kind of deal I personally don't like?

I don't like selling Altcoins, ICOs, drugs, porn (because I consider it a human right to get that for free!), and probably a lot of other things.
But who am I to force my opinion on others?

I really loathe account sales.
But I will never judge anyone for escrowing them.

best and only useful post in this thread.

minifrij

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Quote from: digaran on July 29, 2018, 05:05:50 PM

would it be OK if I start doing the same? I want to know that if I could escrow for account traders just to receive my fee and earn money while people get scammed and this forum get spammed?

Could you escrow account sales? No, you're an idiot.
Could someone else escrow account sales? Yeah probably, if they really want to.

digaran

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Quote from: SebastianJu on June 28, 2015, 12:12:17 PM

I only take bitcointalk forum accounts into escrow whose risked amount are at least $50 per account. Otherwise the risk i can help avoiding and the amount of time i have to implement are in no sane proportion.

Read the date on the quote above, it says 2015, how many deals do you think they have made since? could it be that they have been on selling accounts business and said that they were only the escrow for the deals?

Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on July 29, 2018, 02:35:13 PM

If you really want them to be removed from the DT, you should message people who added them to the list. The topic, however, is highly subjective and doesn't qualify for an obvious case that deserves an instant negative feedback.

I want them to stop escrow for account sale deals, they have been doing it since 2015 and their DT1 sponsor is a trust abuser and bully who'd tag anybody speaking against them.
For 3 years they have helped spammers and scammers to trade accounts with no problem, would it be OK if I start doing the same? I want to know that if I could escrow for account traders just to receive my fee and earn money while people get scammed and this forum get spammed?

Joel_Jantsen

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Quote from: digaran on July 29, 2018, 10:54:34 AM

Bump, we have an unsolved issue here, people like SebastianJu should not be trusted.

I doubt bumping this thread is going to change anything. If you really want them to be removed from the DT, you should message people who added them to the list. The topic, however, is highly subjective and doesn't qualify for an obvious case that deserves an instant negative feedback.

digaran

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Bump, we have an unsolved issue here, people like SebastianJu should not be trusted.

qwk

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Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 01:21:15 PM

Quote from: qwk on July 26, 2018, 05:29:13 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 02:01:54 AM

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts.

Yes, there are.
The existence of a market for accounts makes "hacking" accounts profitable.
Therefore, a certain percentage of the people whose accounts have been "hacked" are victims of people selling forum accounts.

I don’t think selling accounts makes hacking accounts profitable. If you were to hack my account, and it was not possible to sell my account, you could scam someone with my account

Your argument seems to be "there are other ways to make money from a hacked account, not only selling it".
I can agree to that, but it doesn't really counter my point.
That's basically the same as saying "there are other ways to make money from shooting people, not only contract killing"... Tongue

minifrij

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Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 02:01:54 AM

It is ridiculous to claim any kind of authority to regulate what people can and cannot do. Especially when you are in absolutely no way elected, and in no way accountable for your decisions. People who regulate others' actions who are neither elected nor accountable are generally described as "dictators".

Due to the nature of the trust system here, I don't think that comparing it in any way to a traditional election/dictatorship is valid.

Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 01:21:15 PM

If you were to hack my account, and it was not possible to sell my account, you could scam someone with my account, which IMO is worse than you selling my account because if you sold my account, I could argue to the buyer their lack of a signed message is an indication they did not do proper due diligence and they were scammed by someone else, however if you were scamming from my account directly that argument would not work.

There being multiple ways to scam with an account doesn't invalidate that account selling opens up another method to do so. I'm not entirely sure what the argument is here.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: OgNasty on July 24, 2018, 06:45:43 PM

Dude... You are obsessed with trying to get my attention. Look at how much time you've spent over the last week mentioning me. Get a life. Please.

Don't take it too personally. He tries to get the attention of DT members in general in his warped quest to approach TradeFortress in the negative feedback area.

Quote from: endlasuresh on July 25, 2018, 04:19:36 AM

I seen somewhere people got tagged for selling accounts, then why these guys doesn't get the same tag?

Because DT members generally are willing to draw the line somewhere. Even if account selling itself is a shady activity, escrowing those deals is simply keeping both parties safe from scamming. You might not agree with that, but this "if X was tagged, why wasn't Y tagged?" argument is tiresome and smacks of sour grapes. Usually the people who say those things are people who don't tag account sellers or scammers and are whining because they (or an alt account) got tagged for some sketchy activity.

By the way, the question of why escrows for account sales aren't getting tagged has been answered at least once already. There's no need to keep asking it.

Quickseller

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Quote from: qwk on July 26, 2018, 05:29:13 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 02:01:54 AM

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts.

Yes, there are.
The existence of a market for accounts makes "hacking" accounts profitable.
Therefore, a certain percentage of the people whose accounts have been "hacked" are victims of people selling forum accounts.

I don’t think selling accounts makes hacking accounts profitable. If you were to hack my account, and it was not possible to sell my account, you could scam someone with my account, which IMO is worse than you selling my account because if you sold my account, I could argue to the buyer their lack of a signed message is an indication they did not do proper due diligence and they were scammed by someone else, however if you were scamming from my account directly that argument would not work.

Further the reason accounts have value is because they can generate income. Using the above scenario, if you cannot sell my account after hacking it, you could use it to generate income, likes

digaran

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Quote from: endlasuresh on July 25, 2018, 04:19:36 AM

I seen somewhere people got tagged for selling accounts, then why these guys doesn't get the same tag?

Nobody is going to tag SebastianJu because they are afraid of a retaliatory negative trust from them, since abuse of trust system has gone unpunished for years people are afraid to do anything because even if DT members such as ogy and SebastianJu abuse the system nobody with any power(an admin aka theymos) would step in to solve and put an end to the massive abuse. long story short, if you are on DT you could do whatever you want.

Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 02:01:54 AM

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts.

Selling forum accounts would encourage spam and scam, therefore the whole community is the victim of account sales whether through trusted escrows such as SebastianJu or in the black market. stop defending your own underground business.

Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 02:01:54 AM

People who regulate others' actions who are neither elected nor accountable are generally described as "dictators".

Wrong, dictators are generally elected first and before becoming a dictator, they'll later become dictator when nobody is able to hold them accountable such as ogy and friends.
EDIT:

Quote

Power with no authority is tyranny.

qwk

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Quote from: Quickseller on July 26, 2018, 02:01:54 AM

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts.

Yes, there are.
The existence of a market for accounts makes "hacking" accounts profitable.
Therefore, a certain percentage of the people whose accounts have been "hacked" are victims of people selling forum accounts.

It's the same logic that applies to the sale of e.g. ivory.
Of course the seller doesn't shoot elephants, but someone does when there's a market.
In the end, the elephant dies. Cry

Quickseller

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Quote from: minifrij on July 24, 2018, 01:34:07 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 24, 2018, 01:29:08 PM

Sarcasm?

Not particularly. I think there is certainly merit to trying to regulate certain types of sales, and punish those overstepping boundaries.
Someone buying/selling fake IDs or credit cards is a non-extreme example that comes to mind right away. Both may understand the consequences of the transaction should they be caught, however that doesn't mean that we should allow these transactions to take place here without leaving negative ratings and the like. IMO, thinking that these transactions should be allowed and go unpunished/unfiltered is a silly thing to think.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, in which case feel free to correct me.

The sale of fake IDs and stolen credit cards is illegal in most of the civilized world, so this is already against forum rules.

Further, both of your examples have real victims, and the harm is not that someone's feelings are hurt. There will be people and/or entities that will ultimately suffer real financial losses as a result of stolen credit cards and/or fake IDs.

There are not any *actual* victims of people selling forum accounts. None of the flawed arguments against account sales even make this claim. In fact these arguments fail to account for *real* market incentives not to do the very same things that those against account sales claim sales cause.

It is ridiculous to claim any kind of authority to regulate what people can and cannot do. Especially when you are in absolutely no way elected, and in no way accountable for your decisions. People who regulate others' actions who are neither elected nor accountable are generally described as "dictators".

endlasuresh

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Quote from: digaran on July 24, 2018, 05:48:23 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 24, 2018, 06:48:10 AM

Very few people are so corrupt that they will leave negative ratings against people that speak out against them

Like OgNasty for example? being so corrupt to leave me a negative rating after speaking against him.

Quote from: Quickseller on July 24, 2018, 06:48:10 AM

won’t get tagged because he isn’t weak enough to be unable to defend his actions. He would win a debate of the issue on its merits.

I would very much like to see how he is going to win this debate if he is tagged by a DT member, I wish there were some good DT1 member who could have tagged SebastianJu for escrowing account deals. unfortunately people around here are too coward to do anything.

Read more about it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.42549551

EDIT: what is this dude saying posting below my post? what does this old timer trust abuser wants from me? I wonder what could happen if account sales were banned by the forum? I'm sure ogy and friends could've found another way at earning escrow fees.

Does Account buying and selling is illegal?
I seen somewhere people got tagged for selling accounts, then why these guys doesn't get the same tag?

OgNasty

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Dude... You are obsessed with trying to get my attention. Look at how much time you've spent over the last week mentioning me. Get a life. Please.

Quote from: digaran on July 24, 2018, 05:48:23 PM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 23, 2018, 06:59:28 AM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 21, 2018, 02:25:33 AM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 21, 2018, 09:05:39 AM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 20, 2018, 10:33:43 AM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 20, 2018, 09:08:32 AM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 18, 2018, 10:59:18 PM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 18, 2018, 10:12:01 AM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 17, 2018, 01:57:44 PM

OgNasty

Quote from: digaran on July 16, 2018, 10:37:00 PM

OgNasty

digaran

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Quote from: Quickseller on July 24, 2018, 06:48:10 AM

Very few people are so corrupt that they will leave negative ratings against people that speak out against them

Like OgNasty for example? being so corrupt to leave me a negative rating after speaking against him.

Quote from: Quickseller on July 24, 2018, 06:48:10 AM

won’t get tagged because he isn’t weak enough to be unable to defend his actions. He would win a debate of the issue on its merits.

I would very much like to see how he is going to win this debate if he is tagged by a DT member, I wish there were some good DT1 member who could have tagged SebastianJu for escrowing account deals. unfortunately people around here are too coward to do anything.

Read more about it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.42549551

EDIT: what is this dude saying posting below my post? what does this old timer trust abuser wants from me? I wonder what could happen if account sales were banned by the forum? I'm sure ogy and friends could've found another way at earning escrow fees.

minifrij

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In Memory of Zepher

Quote from: Quickseller on July 24, 2018, 01:29:08 PM

Sarcasm?

Not particularly. I think there is certainly merit to trying to regulate certain types of sales, and punish those overstepping boundaries.
Someone buying/selling fake IDs or credit cards is a non-extreme example that comes to mind right away. Both may understand the consequences of the transaction should they be caught, however that doesn't mean that we should allow these transactions to take place here without leaving negative ratings and the like. IMO, thinking that these transactions should be allowed and go unpunished/unfiltered is a silly thing to think.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, in which case feel free to correct me.

Quickseller

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Quote from: minifrij on July 24, 2018, 01:27:41 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on July 04, 2018, 07:17:09 PM

Ignoring all of the above, I generally do not like telling other people what kind of transactions they can and cannot take part of, when all parties to the transaction are fully understanding of the consequences of the transaction. Attempts to regulate these kinds of transactions is nothing more than a power grab.

What a silly thing to say.

Sarcasm?

Topic: SebastianJu accepts transaction buying/selling bitcointalk accounts (Read 1168 times)