SEC Charges Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST) as Ponzi Scheme - page 5.

ldrgn

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Quote from: 2112 on July 23, 2013, 06:21:16 PM

A bit of advice for non-U.S. entities that have offered and dealt with the U.S. citizens:

Whatever you do make sure that you return to the investor at least the original nominal value of the investment. Or that you can return the original nominal value to all the investors.

Looks like TU.SILVER is fucked.

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: ajk on July 24, 2013, 04:15:13 PM

Why are you asking the BTC community who here has any real advice to give that can actually be taken with credit and not a grain of salt

im just saying that the situation could have been handled better with people who have more knowledge on the subject than a bunch of speculative investors

Yeah well...crowdsourcing, right?

crumbs

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Quote from: Lohoris on July 25, 2013, 03:23:26 AM

Quote from: burnside on July 24, 2013, 03:00:25 AM

The answer so far as I can tell is that no, I cannot use my bitcoin in the real world. I cannot hold them, I cannot buy starbucks with them, I cannot trade them at any shop in town that I am aware of. I cannot call my broker and buy them or buy anything tangible using them. For me and 99.9% of americans they're still an imaginary experiment.

This line of reasoning is quite weak, since it's easy to exchange them for USD and then spend the USD.
You can also use them directly to buy prepaid credit cards...

Hint: The credit cards are denominated in what?
If i have a marketable idea, someone will pay me $$$ for it. I can then spend my $$$ on anything i want. This does not imply that my idea was a currency, simply that it was sold for money. Sorry for OT

MonkeyMarcel

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Quote from: foxykah on July 25, 2013, 05:38:53 AM

Quote from: lunarboy on July 25, 2013, 03:03:02 AM

Quote from: dance4x on July 25, 2013, 01:08:28 AM

Couldn't Open Transactions be used for issuing assets in the future?

I think Open transactions can't get here soon enough.
decentralise the BTC exchanges and decentralise all BTC denominated assets.

Game over jurisdiction.

+1, but the implementation of this decentralisation is way beyond our capacities, the creation of such a system would rival that of the BTC system in terms of complexity.

I just read up on Open Transactions for the first time... Holy shit. Mind blown. To other "OT" noobs, do yourself a favour and read up on this.

GeoRW

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Trust No One

Don't panic guys. Just invest what you can lose Grin

foxykah

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Quote from: lunarboy on July 25, 2013, 03:03:02 AM

Quote from: dance4x on July 25, 2013, 01:08:28 AM

Couldn't Open Transactions be used for issuing assets in the future?

I think Open transactions can't get here soon enough.
decentralise the BTC exchanges and decentralise all BTC denominated assets.

Game over jurisdiction.

+1, but the implementation of this decentralisation is way beyond our capacities, the creation of such a system would rival that of the BTC system in terms of complexity.

Lohoris

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Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: burnside on July 24, 2013, 03:00:25 AM

The answer so far as I can tell is that no, I cannot use my bitcoin in the real world. I cannot hold them, I cannot buy starbucks with them, I cannot trade them at any shop in town that I am aware of. I cannot call my broker and buy them or buy anything tangible using them. For me and 99.9% of americans they're still an imaginary experiment.

This line of reasoning is quite weak, since it's easy to exchange them for USD and then spend the USD.
You can also use them directly to buy prepaid credit cards...

lunarboy

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Activity: 544

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Quote from: dance4x on July 25, 2013, 01:08:28 AM

Couldn't Open Transactions be used for issuing assets in the future?

I think Open transactions can't get here soon enough.
decentralise the BTC exchanges and decentralise all BTC denominated assets.

Game over jurisdiction.

MonkeyMarcel

member

Activity: 97

Merit: 10

Quote from: Pale Phoenix on July 24, 2013, 02:55:15 PM

There is no need to panic.

The SEC is not going to pursue some guy mining coins in his garage and, barring fraud, the chance that they will pursue an exchange, or anyone at all, is very small.

Exposure to Regulation D is not new, it's been there all along, and anyone paying attention has known that. But the regulations around crowdfunding will soon change, and it's extremely unlikely that any sort of enforcement will happen before they are sorted out. Not to mention, without evidence of fraud, any enforcement is likely to come in the form of a cease and desist letter, not criminal charges.

Burnside, I'd urge you to stop speculating in public about what you may or may not do, as you are needlessly spooking the markets. Take some time to think about reducing your risk, get some advice, and come up with a plan that can be implemented over time without permanently damaging the exchange.

May cooler heads prevail!

What a boss reply.

dance4x

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Couldn't Open Transactions be used for issuing assets in the future?

Exocyst

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Science!

Quote from: onecent on July 24, 2013, 10:10:14 PM

nice idea, everything related to btc should be decentralize, if the stock exchange and currency exchange are running as a client on computers or cellphones, there is no way the gov has the chance to shut them down

Your idea is nice as well but there are practical/technical concerns to be addressed:

Who pays for the development of said decentralized securities exchange?
Who moderates offerings to reduce likely scams? (A proof of stake voting system might work but is subject to manipulation)
How are transactions secured? (Are we looking at yet another alt-coin?)
How do you handle rapid order creation/destruction/fulfillment?
How do you facilitate rapid order fulfillment when transactions consist of entities with different temporal constraints? (in other words, how do you create a p2p marketplace where users can trade BTC for securities when BTC can only be securely transferred over a period of 30—60 min depending on your risk tolerance?)

I am wholeheartedly behind the creation of said decentralized securities exchange but there are serious technical hurdles to be overcome.

onecent

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Quote from: forensick on July 23, 2013, 02:25:13 PM

Quote from: Technologov on July 23, 2013, 02:06:48 PM

People: What I ask for is a petition to our Bitcoin stock exchanges to allow stocks download to our PCs.

Petition to Bitcoin stock exchanges:

I ask you to find a decentralized solution for investors to be able to store our stock shares offline, in case of catastrophe and if this site goes down.

One possibility: Investigate "colored BitcoinX" to download stock shares to our computers and store offline, like Bitcoins. It allows to "paint" fractional bitcoins into IOUs, stocks and financial assets and will write our asset possessions right into the block-chain.
Another option, is to develop a new block-chain for stocks and other assets.

This will greatly reduce shareholder risks, -and- allow investors to invest more money.
(The goal is to proof the exchanges vs. government regulatory attacks, hackers, and to keep our freedom)

-Technologov

very good idea, espcially for those exchanges run by Americans

nice idea, everything related to btc should be decentralize, if the stock exchange and currency exchange are running as a client on computers or cellphones, there is no way the gov has the chance to shut them down

dexX7

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If I recall correctly, the SEC was almost instantly involved in this since the pirateat40 thing blew up.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100007836/bitcoin-pirate-scandal-sec-steps-in-amid-allegations-that-the-whole-thing-was-a-ponzi-scheme/

http://www.bitcointrading.com/forum/talk-bitcoin/sec-investigating-btcst-pirateat40/

They were going after him in 2012. And now, after a year, they address this incident again. Unexpected? Not really.

I'm not in the position to say "calm down, guys", but at least I can say: "don't overreact, please".

superduh

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on July 24, 2013, 07:18:30 PM

Quote from: velacreations on July 24, 2013, 05:09:48 PM

yeah, he didn't say that, so stop acting like you had a valid reason to panic when someone is just discussing a HYPOTHETICAL

And, IMO, this whole discussion is completely overreacting to something that is unlikely to happen, ie. the SEC taking notice of bitcoin exchanges.

But, thanks for the panic, I do appreciate cheap share prices, guys! Grin

You are delusional if you don't think the SEC is reading this thread right now.

They regulate securities exchanges.

Security exchanges operating in the USA. this is 100% out of their jurisdiction. however, i fully support SEC going after FRAUDSTERS. scammers and fraudsters and certain manipulators and ponzi people should all be behind bars regardless of what country they reside in and what organization puts them behind bars.

stslimited

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a foreign exchange has no liability with the SEC, its the companies listed on them. ISSUING securities is what the SEC watches

that being said, I've warned US issuers (BASIC-MINING) about this issue weeks and months ago.

Keep the exchange open, or you'll lose all your market share to someone that understands this stuff (me.)

Oh your computers are on a cloud server in the US? Stop your FUD and tell me exactly what part of the securities act of 1933 and securities exchange act of 1934 you are concerned about.

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Move the servers to Canada Eh

usagi

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13

Quote from: Pale Phoenix on July 24, 2013, 07:06:47 PM

Burnside has said that he's going to take a step back, get advice, and evaluate the situation. He's not making any changes or planning to block US users at this time, so perhaps we can just leave it at that for now. Stocks seem to be in recovery mode... everything will be fine.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3vadh5/

KCBitcoin

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Quote from: Pale Phoenix on July 24, 2013, 07:06:47 PM

Burnside has said that he's going to take a step back, get advice, and evaluate the situation. He's not making any changes or planning to block US users at this time, so perhaps we can just leave it at that for now. Stocks seem to be in recovery mode... everything will be fine.

+1

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

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👻

Quote from: velacreations on July 24, 2013, 05:09:48 PM

yeah, he didn't say that, so stop acting like you had a valid reason to panic when someone is just discussing a HYPOTHETICAL

And, IMO, this whole discussion is completely overreacting to something that is unlikely to happen, ie. the SEC taking notice of bitcoin exchanges.

But, thanks for the panic, I do appreciate cheap share prices, guys! Grin

You are delusional if you don't think the SEC is reading this thread right now.

They regulate securities exchanges.

Pale Phoenix

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Burnside has said that he's going to take a step back, get advice, and evaluate the situation. He's not making any changes or planning to block US users at this time, so perhaps we can just leave it at that for now. Stocks seem to be in recovery mode... everything will be fine.

Topic: SEC Charges Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST) as Ponzi Scheme - page 5. (Read 24447 times)