Aside from the fact that a wealthy exchange could potentially pay off an inspector or group of inspectors and get them to say whatever the exchange wanted them to say. What happens when the website gets hacked and modified to say Gox is the best exchange? If you do manage to convince anyone to go along with that, then fine. But if you've noticed, we've just exposed Gox without any "trusted body". Everything we've seen on this forum in the last few hours is enough to show new users that gox isn't to be trusted. In that sense we're already self-regulating. Under your proposal, who regulates the regulators?
Anyone who's been around longer than a week or two here will know that BTC stored in a web wallet could be compromised at any time. They know the most secure place for large sums of money is a paper wallet stored in a safe or vault. They know that money stored on Exchanges is no different to a web wallet and again could be compromised at any point. The most secure way to transfer money is to and from individuals with a trusted reputation. Each and every person is best placed to be responsible for their own dealings. Each and every person here is already a regulator, saying who can be trusted and who can't. Again, having a centralised body to make those decisions for us would only weaken that.
The purest and safest transaction is that between two individuals. The problem with exchanges and also web wallets is that they are a third party. Any attempt to regulate or legislate automatically adds more parties. People should only be putting as much money into Exchanges as they can afford to lose. I only use exchanges for day-trading small amounts of PPC, NMC and other alts. I'm not putting significant sums of money on there because I'm responsible enough to know that it's not safe. I would rather see a system based on personal responsibility, rather than one relying on others to make the decisions. Because when those "trusted" other become corrupt, as they have in our current fiat system, it's all going to turn to shit.
When someone wants to create a scam exchange, then there is a lot more risks, when you actually have to bribe a group of well-known people. And this is what is needed, to make scamming riskier then before.
When a webpage is hacked and the information changed, then the operators can take down the website right away and report the hack attempt. So, this is not a real threat but another excuse why we should keep hiding our heads in sand.
"We've exposed Gox" ?.. This "we" are a counted number of members of this forum. And let's not forget that this "we" took about a year of getting scammed, before they "exposed it".... So.. another excuse why we should keep our heads buried in sand.
Well, if you want to continue this "every man for himself/law of the jungle", then I promise you that bitcoin will hardly last a year. When it becomes public knowledge that there is no reason to trust the exchanges and they probably will steal your money/use it for personal means, then say good bye to new adopters.
As I said.. if you want to be weak and meaningless, then go ahead.. evolution does it's thing with people who like to sit on their ass and hope for a miracles to solve their problems.
I'm not putting significant sums of money on there because I'm responsible enough to know that it's not safe.
Get this through your thick head: If the media picks up the subject how unsecured the exchanges really are, then bitcoin will be called an overall scam. That means no new investors. That means old investors will be leaving. To you, it means that no getting-rich-quickly without doing any work.
I'm still getting the same vibe here: "Please be quiet.. you are disturbing my peace... let me live in illusion that everything will just somehow be alright". The world is full of people like that, and that's why there are so many things screwed up in society.
The best irony is that the bitcoin community likes to blame global banking a lot, while repeating the same mistakes that come out of greed, stupidity, laziness and self-flattery. Global finance went into crisis the same way.. most saw the flaws but no one wanted to step up with a direct solution in fixing those flaws.. everyone just hoped that someone else will somehow fix it, so they can keeping their choo choo going with the growing economy.
Luckly I got a reply from benjyz, someone who is interested in offering a fix to this problem. Thank you benjyz for giving me faith that not all people are useless pieces of meat.
What you're proposing is to
repeat the mistakes of global finance. A body of regulators is never truly independent. Also, are you volunteering to pay these regulators? Are you going to pay for their flights to travel around the world visiting exchanges to get proof that everything is all in order? Are you paying for their accommodation, food and drink? Or are you expecting all of us to pay for that? Because I can assure you it isn't going to happen.
Look, I'm going to level with you here. You seem like a decent guy who wants to make things better and I admire your conviction to this issue. While I don't doubt that you think what your suggesting is a good idea, I can assure that adding regulation will only make things worse. Whether you realise it or not, your present argument is more dangerous to the success of Bitcoin than any shady exchange.
So instead of continuing to tell you why you're wrong, I'll suggest something that we can possibly both agree on.
Move your money is a project to give approval ratings to all the major UK banks and building societies. It's based on feedback from users of those services, rather than appointed individuals like you're suggesting. If you could set up a site where people can give feedback on their experiences with the various exchanges and highlight which of them are doing well and which are making a complete ball-up like gox, then I'd see no problem with that. It would provide information to new users and doesn't force unwanted regulation into a system that doesn't need it.
That, or you can keep arguing for regulation, which no one is going to agree to.
Global finance didn't go into crisis because there were regulations, but because the regulations and the regulators were too weak and without any real power.
I am volunteering to contribute to these regulators. Sadly I'm not rich enough to do all of this alone. This is why I'm posting these topics in this forum, not flying around the world to meet the right people in person, so that things would get moving already. Posting about the seriousness of this MtGox situation and calling for help was the only way I saw that I could do something. If I'd find enough people here, to show me that bitcoin is worth saving, then I'll also offer my part in funding.
Well, I'll also level with you, that I truly believe that bitcoin will fail without advancements in regulations. It's a matter of creating order if you want to create something for the entire society to use. People like you tend to think that order will just happen out of thin air. That systems will just fix into place by itself.
But things don't just fix into place, people fix things. When someone is not used to fixing something, then that someone likes to think, that everyone else are also like that and things get done by acts of god or whatever.
Now the thing here worries me that
no one seems to very few people care that there is a real problem with the integrity of the entire market system. A problem with enough gravity to be fatal to the entire project.
I raised the same subject about 4 months ago, but then I was told that things are already being done to fix this situation. But on viewing the present situation, I can see that nothing has been done and nothing probably won't be getting done.
I was prepared that the majority always votes for nothing to be done. The majority always wants to sit on their ass and wait for miracles (other people) to help them. But what saddens me, is the lack of interest from the minority.. the ones that should have a big stake in bitcoin and that should minimize every risk that threatens it's future.
So, there is nothing being done "behind the curtain" and there is nothing being done in the public forum. It gets more probable every moment, that nothing will get done.
Regulations are not bad per se, but regulations can be bad if they have been created by the wrong people. Bitcoin already has a lot of regulation, with it's entire software being a structure of regulation. Without regulations, people could just write down a number and call it money. Doing this out of their clear conscious and pure honesty on how much have they contributed to others. Sadly you can't write market regulations inside the software. It would be perfect if you could, but daydreaming is for keeping you occupied while hiding your head in sand.
At least for now, these rules have to be written outside the software. Otherwise there are no laws and there are no order. You don't give a flying f**k right now, because bitcoin price is still reletively stable, but you will whine a lot when the price is back to single digits and dropping. Because in the monetary world, trust is everything. And if people won't trust the bitcoin market, then it will fall without an rebound. And then, when everyone will start yelling "hey we need to do something to regain trust", then it's too late, because no one wants to be associated with "bitscam", or at least that's what it will be called. People who have been bitcoin enthusiasts will be publicly ridiculed like members of an pyramid scheme or an cult.
So, I repeat. Most of you that are holding, if you want to fix this problem, then you have to have will to do so, and after that, there comes a solution. If you continue to be these weaklings who hope for miracles, then you will be eaten by the same law of the jungle that your ultra-liberalism tends to promote. If bitcoin wants to expand, then it has to work under a more complex market network then this "We don't need regulations... people are honest in nature.. especially around money".
Now, this dialogue ends on my part. I have been in fiat for the last months and currently I don't see much hope that would make me want to buy back. The market seems without basic ability to distinguish real threats from pseudo threats, so it's not a very attractive investment environment. It's always harder to predict the randomness of stupidity then the structure of common sense.
I'll still keep my eyes open, if there are any people who need help in fixing any problems, but I'm done with trying to get you off your ass. It doesn't feel nice if you bang your head on a stone wall.
