Sending bitcoin without the miner fees ! - page 2.

South Park

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Quote from: mayax on July 11, 2017, 03:26:44 PM

why would I pay 10% or even 20% fees when I can use Paypal for much lower fees? More than that, I can use a debit card without any fee for online shopping and ATM withdrawals

BTC wasn't made to be a payment system. the fees will increase. they will not go down.

At the moment with a median transaction size of 226 bytes and a fee of 280 satoshi/byte the only way for your example to work and have a 20% fee is to send 253120 satoshis or 0.00253120 in BTC and in a transaction where you deal a larger amount of bitcoin the percentage will drop and that is with a good fee, you could send a lower fee of 40 satoshi/byte and get a confirmation in 5 hours at the moment.

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why would I pay 10% or even 20% fees when I can use Paypal for much lower fees? More than that, I can use a debit card without any fee for online shopping and ATM withdrawals

BTC wasn't made to be a payment system. the fees will increase. they will not go down.

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Quote from: systemv on July 09, 2017, 08:39:47 PM

Happened to me a year ago when I used outdated version of core wallet and it had fee hardcoded (?) and it was lower then needed. Transaction never got confirmed, newegg order got cancelled, BTC returned back to the account after a while.

Which is why we must familiarize ourselves with our wallets before doing anything else, or we may end up doing silly mistakes, that almost happened to me once when I was about to send a transaction and then I noticed that my wallet was not in mBTC but in BTC so I was about to send a transaction 1000 times larger than what was needed, so I saved myself a lot of money and trouble by double and triple checking the details of the transaction.

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Quote from: Netnox on July 10, 2017, 11:38:59 AM

Quote from: systemv on July 09, 2017, 08:39:47 PM

Happened to me a year ago when I used outdated version of core wallet and it had fee hardcoded (?) and it was lower then needed. Transaction never got confirmed, newegg order got cancelled, BTC returned back to the account after a while.

The problem is that some of the miners refuse to include transactions which pay a low free in the blocks which they mine. This is especially true for the blocks mined by the mining pools such as BTCC Pool, BitFury, Bitcoin.com, and AntPool. These miners are actually acting against the spirit of Bitcoin, and their actions may be detrimental to the future of BTC

And these pools seem to make up most of hashing power today

I've had a heated debate with some dude here recently who argued that this is normal, that this is Bitcoin, so to speak. As to me, it is not so much against the spirit of Bitcoin (though it is certainly against) as against the idea of money itself. Basically, miners via the monopolization of their power (conceptually given to them by the PoW concept) are destroying Bitcoin specifically as a currency, hampering or even preventing its use as a means of payment (which is what ultimately counts)

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Quote from: jackflag on July 02, 2017, 11:20:32 PM

Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

Can not, this can not happen, miner fee is a condition needed to make a bitcoin transaction. It's the original platform in blockchain technology, you can not change it.

Yeah I think as this fee is mandatory to all of us just to send bitcoin safely without double spending. Better pay high than your transaction got stuck you're like waiting for how many days if it will send or return it to you. Somehow risky if you trust your coin to some third parties.

8Habits

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Quote from: ecnalubma on July 10, 2017, 12:49:24 PM

Why should someone do that to zero the fees.?Of course you use the service you pay the fees in order to process transactions. Its a mutual environment for both users and miners and their must be only two fee options in sending bitcoins either slow or fast. Why zero fees then if its risky? 🤔

Miners are also do heavy investment in building up and maintaining their mining facilities - and it is huge amount of investment really involves here. That is why, there is no reason why we want to have a zero transaction fee

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Quote from: aishyoo17 on July 09, 2017, 07:29:01 AM

Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

Having bitcoin transaction without paying the miner fee will only give you headache, it would be better to pay higher fee so that your transaction will be complete fast and you'll have a smooth transaction.

Hmm bitcoin is the best and being the great currency of the world so sending bitcoin with a miner fees is also a good change now it is being happen in many places that bitcoin fees has reduced to good extent. I have noticed that today with one of my transaction the miner fees was below than 0.0001 BTC.

ecnalubma

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Why should someone do that to zero the fees.?Of course you use the service you pay the fees in order to process transactions. Its a mutual environment for both users and miners and their must be only two fee options in sending bitcoins either slow or fast. Why zero fees then if its risky? 🤔

hisuka

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Quote from: Kisanaq on July 10, 2017, 11:09:51 AM

Quote from: bozo333 on July 10, 2017, 09:29:15 AM

With the lower fees only, we can do transactions with the bitcoins. But, the amount of transaction fee is very less. Minimum fee is not important than secure and easy transactions without middileware.

For small transactions we might use, but if we send above 0.1 btc I suggest to use extra payment, I never felt when sending with small fee took more than 1 week.

For sending lower fees it took more days to confirm the transactions. Thats true, it is good to use additional fees to confirm fast the transactions. However, if sending bitcoin without fees will prohibit sending.

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Quote from: systemv on July 09, 2017, 08:39:47 PM

Happened to me a year ago when I used outdated version of core wallet and it had fee hardcoded (?) and it was lower then needed. Transaction never got confirmed, newegg order got cancelled, BTC returned back to the account after a while.

The problem is that some of the miners refuse to include transactions which pay a low free in the blocks which they mine. This is especially true for the blocks mined by the mining pools such as BTCC Pool, BitFury, Bitcoin.com, and AntPool. These miners are actually acting against the spirit of Bitcoin, and their actions may be detrimental to the future of BTC.

Kisanaq

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Quote from: bozo333 on July 10, 2017, 09:29:15 AM

With the lower fees only, we can do transactions with the bitcoins. But, the amount of transaction fee is very less. Minimum fee is not important than secure and easy transactions without middileware.

For small transactions we might use, but if we send above 0.1 btc I suggest to use extra payment, I never felt when sending with small fee took more than 1 week.

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With the lower fees only, we can do transactions with the bitcoins. But, the amount of transaction fee is very less. Minimum fee is not important than secure and easy transactions without middileware.

8Habits

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Quote from: stompix on July 10, 2017, 07:11:32 AM

Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 09, 2017, 04:47:15 PM

everytime when i try the viabtc accelerator it says "this transaction doesn't exit" ! any ideas why this is happening ?

Probably because of the low fee?
They reject transactions without the minimum fee.

Quote from: CoinCidental on July 10, 2017, 04:27:50 AM

Accelerating a bitcoin TX with a credit card payment is the epitome of stupidity. Cheesy

You can also include paying a larger fee for an acceleration service than a bit higher tx which would have confirmed in less than an 3 blocks to that.

Accelerations services make sense only when you're not the (cheap) bastard that sent the money, you're the receiver.

This is what we should do - pay more fees when we really wanted the money as soon as possible. This happened to me a year ago when I withdraw .6 bitcoin to use for a very important matter and I never realized that in electrum, the fee setup was too small - so I ended up waiting for it for more than 2 weeks more or less.

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Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 09, 2017, 04:47:15 PM

everytime when i try the viabtc accelerator it says "this transaction doesn't exit" ! any ideas why this is happening ?

Probably because of the low fee?
They reject transactions without the minimum fee.

Quote from: CoinCidental on July 10, 2017, 04:27:50 AM

Accelerating a bitcoin TX with a credit card payment is the epitome of stupidity. Cheesy

You can also include paying a larger fee for an acceleration service than a bit higher tx which would have confirmed in less than an 3 blocks to that.

Accelerations services make sense only when you're not the (cheap) bastard that sent the money, you're the receiver.

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Quote from: South Park on July 10, 2017, 12:42:43 AM

Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

If you send a transaction with a low fee, it may take forever to confirm but if you are not in any hurry that can be a way to save in fees, but to send a transaction with no fees will probably result in your transaction to never confirm and your funds will go back to your wallet, but you will have wasted too much time.

Sending bitcoins without miner fee and low fee both are risky your good luck it will take a long time and confirm, but most of the times it takes a long time and finally disappear if you do not pay miner fee. I never experienced like this maybe in this situation our coins will back to our wallet.

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Quote from: User365 on July 10, 2017, 02:57:12 AM

Quote from: CoinCidental on July 10, 2017, 12:52:21 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on July 02, 2017, 11:02:14 PM

Quote from: ImHash on July 02, 2017, 10:45:24 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on July 02, 2017, 09:41:25 PM

Quote from: MicroGuy on July 02, 2017, 08:41:01 PM

Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

Bitcoins never go into space. You will either get the transaction returned or it will be included in a block.

no, there is no "transaction returning" in bitcoin. on paper it MAY be possible but in practice when you send a bitcoin transaction it will stay out there forever until it either confirms or becomes invalid (like by double spending) and gets rejected.

to OP if you want to do such a thing make sure to mark it as RBF so that if you changed your mind you still have an "easier" option to solve the problem.

All the above bullsh*t posts aside your bullsh*t is something entirely new, who the fu*k taught you this? when a transaction doesn't get confirmed after a while it will be as if you never sent it at all meaning it will be unlocked/ back to your wallet.

I don't know if people are getting dumber or what?

i don't understand the reason for all these insults! if i am wrong then feel free to prove i am wrong.

and no your "after a while" was increased from 72 hours to 336 hours or 2 weeks and there will always be a node out there that has your transaction in its mempool and is broadcasting it so it propagates through the network and every node will have it at all times.

there is no "as it it was never sent either". people are either using SPV or web wallets in which case they have no control over what happens and have to stick to methods such as RBF or simply double spending.

or they run full nodes and have control on what they broadcast in which case they can manually "abandon" the transaction and make a new one, it doesn't happen on its own. it will stay in your node as your transaction that you keep broadcasting and in your wallet it will stay as spent.
even if they do that, the network doesn't have to accept the new transcription. when you rebroadcast the double spent transaction the nodes which have your previous tx will reject your new one because it is a double spend.

i sweeped some paper wallets and wasnt able to choose appropriate fee ,it took about a month until someone finally mined it

You could have boosted it with either Viabit tx accelerator or with a paid accelerating service

Accelerating a bitcoin TX with a credit card payment is the epitome of stupidity. Cheesy

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Quote from: CoinCidental on July 10, 2017, 12:52:21 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on July 02, 2017, 11:02:14 PM

Quote from: ImHash on July 02, 2017, 10:45:24 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on July 02, 2017, 09:41:25 PM

Quote from: MicroGuy on July 02, 2017, 08:41:01 PM

Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

Bitcoins never go into space. You will either get the transaction returned or it will be included in a block.

no, there is no "transaction returning" in bitcoin. on paper it MAY be possible but in practice when you send a bitcoin transaction it will stay out there forever until it either confirms or becomes invalid (like by double spending) and gets rejected.

to OP if you want to do such a thing make sure to mark it as RBF so that if you changed your mind you still have an "easier" option to solve the problem.

All the above bullsh*t posts aside your bullsh*t is something entirely new, who the fu*k taught you this? when a transaction doesn't get confirmed after a while it will be as if you never sent it at all meaning it will be unlocked/ back to your wallet.

I don't know if people are getting dumber or what?

i don't understand the reason for all these insults! if i am wrong then feel free to prove i am wrong.

and no your "after a while" was increased from 72 hours to 336 hours or 2 weeks and there will always be a node out there that has your transaction in its mempool and is broadcasting it so it propagates through the network and every node will have it at all times.

there is no "as it it was never sent either". people are either using SPV or web wallets in which case they have no control over what happens and have to stick to methods such as RBF or simply double spending.

or they run full nodes and have control on what they broadcast in which case they can manually "abandon" the transaction and make a new one, it doesn't happen on its own. it will stay in your node as your transaction that you keep broadcasting and in your wallet it will stay as spent.
even if they do that, the network doesn't have to accept the new transcription. when you rebroadcast the double spent transaction the nodes which have your previous tx will reject your new one because it is a double spend.

i sweeped some paper wallets and wasnt able to choose appropriate fee ,it took about a month until someone finally mined it

You could have boosted it with either Viabit tx accelerator or with a paid accelerating service

PELELE

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We can send our bitcoins to another account with the minor fees compared to the other transaction payment systems. That's why, business people are interested in investing bitcoins.

CoinCidental

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Quote from: pooya87 on July 02, 2017, 11:02:14 PM

Quote from: ImHash on July 02, 2017, 10:45:24 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on July 02, 2017, 09:41:25 PM

Quote from: MicroGuy on July 02, 2017, 08:41:01 PM

Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

Bitcoins never go into space. You will either get the transaction returned or it will be included in a block.

no, there is no "transaction returning" in bitcoin. on paper it MAY be possible but in practice when you send a bitcoin transaction it will stay out there forever until it either confirms or becomes invalid (like by double spending) and gets rejected.

to OP if you want to do such a thing make sure to mark it as RBF so that if you changed your mind you still have an "easier" option to solve the problem.

All the above bullsh*t posts aside your bullsh*t is something entirely new, who the fu*k taught you this? when a transaction doesn't get confirmed after a while it will be as if you never sent it at all meaning it will be unlocked/ back to your wallet.

I don't know if people are getting dumber or what?

i don't understand the reason for all these insults! if i am wrong then feel free to prove i am wrong.

and no your "after a while" was increased from 72 hours to 336 hours or 2 weeks and there will always be a node out there that has your transaction in its mempool and is broadcasting it so it propagates through the network and every node will have it at all times.

there is no "as it it was never sent either". people are either using SPV or web wallets in which case they have no control over what happens and have to stick to methods such as RBF or simply double spending.

or they run full nodes and have control on what they broadcast in which case they can manually "abandon" the transaction and make a new one, it doesn't happen on its own. it will stay in your node as your transaction that you keep broadcasting and in your wallet it will stay as spent.
even if they do that, the network doesn't have to accept the new transcription. when you rebroadcast the double spent transaction the nodes which have your previous tx will reject your new one because it is a double spend.

i sweeped some paper wallets and wasnt able to choose appropriate fee ,it took about a month until someone finally mined it

South Park

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Quote from: BtcKing 1 on July 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM

So i was thinking if i send a bitcoin transaction without the miner fee or a very low fee what will happen ? would i get the coins back eventually ? or they will just stuck there forever ! and if that happened how to do that double spend ?

If you send a transaction with a low fee, it may take forever to confirm but if you are not in any hurry that can be a way to save in fees, but to send a transaction with no fees will probably result in your transaction to never confirm and your funds will go back to your wallet, but you will have wasted too much time.

Topic: Sending bitcoin without the miner fees ! - page 2. (Read 4482 times)