Should Peter Vessenes resign as the Executive Director for Bitcoin Foundation ? - page 3.

k99

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Manfred Karrer

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on April 27, 2013, 01:36:56 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on April 27, 2013, 12:34:56 PM

I was never strongly against the BCF anyway. Just voiced some theoretical concerns and reservations about how it could influence the evolution of the Bitcoin solution. I cannot help but feel slightly vindicated at this point.

Huh. What evidence do you have that the Foundation has been hurting the evolution of Bitcoin?

Because it seems to me things have been going gangbusters since the Foundation was formed (with all the usual chaos and drama).

Or, to be less polite to all the haters: we've all been working our asses off (especially Peter), to make Bitcoin a success. What have you anonymous cowards been doing besides spouting off about things you know NOTHING about?

- all been working our asses off (especially Peter) - is that the kind of work bitcoin need?

so i guess that discussion can be closed now. no one with a brain would like to have vess anymore as director or even member of the bitcoin foundation. in fact the foundation itself should close down if it was so easy to get occupied by such persons. shame on you vess. and my confidence in the other board members has also shrunk significantly. you should have known this guy better!
just the 2 cents of an anonymous coward.

tvbcof

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Quote from: tvbcof on April 26, 2013, 06:08:11 PM

Voted 'hell no'. The guy is making me money, and is my best bet to make a genuine fortune. Three cheers for ~vess!

Now, how about an update on Coinlab/MtGox for Christsake!

Changed my mind (but to lazy to change my vote.) The guy is costing me money. Take a hike ~vess!

And as for the update, thanks for nothing!

tvbcof

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Quote from: Herodes on May 02, 2013, 09:53:17 PM

Board meetings of the foundation will be interesting now.

You mean with Mark and Peter yuck-yuck'ing about engineering an earthquake which shook a lot of BTC out of the weak hands in yokel-land?

Herodes

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 02, 2013, 06:09:06 PM

Quote from: Severian on May 02, 2013, 08:30:47 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 01, 2013, 10:27:20 PM

Without MtGox there would pretty much not be a Bitcoin.

Without Silk Road, there wouldn't have been an MtGox.

Maybe Mark is DPR and Satoshi! Grin

Board meetings of the foundation will be interesting now.

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Severian on May 02, 2013, 08:30:47 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 01, 2013, 10:27:20 PM

Without MtGox there would pretty much not be a Bitcoin.

Without Silk Road, there wouldn't have been an MtGox.

Maybe Mark is DPR and Satoshi! Grin

Severian

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 01, 2013, 10:27:20 PM

Without MtGox there would pretty much not be a Bitcoin.

Without Silk Road, there wouldn't have been an MtGox.

charleshoskinson

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We need a p2p bitcoin exchange

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Severian on May 01, 2013, 09:57:07 PM

Quote from: charleshoskinson on May 01, 2013, 01:13:34 PM

I'm thinking we really should consider a fork.

They're the fork. We're what Bitcoin has always been.

I was in the process of opening a brick and mortar Bitcoin biz. After seeing the price of Bitcoin get hijacked by the owners of Gox, whoever they are at this point, I no longer have faith in the honesty of the price of bitcoins as set by Mtgox, so I won't put any more energy into their rigged carnival game.

I'll hold my coins and see where they are in a few months. If Gox is still in the picture, the game is still rigged.

Wow that’s pretty severe. MtGox (I was going to say Mark Karpeles but that’s not fair – there are others working with him too) for all their faults is Bitcoin and has been from the beginning. Without MtGox there would pretty much not be a Bitcoin. I’m not a major MtGox advocate but I do recognize their position in the community. There may come a time when true competition will come along and change that (I thought it might be TradeHill) but for now Bitcoin will cease to exist in it's present form without them.

Severian

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Quote from: charleshoskinson on May 01, 2013, 01:13:34 PM

I'm thinking we really should consider a fork.

They're the fork. We're what Bitcoin has always been.

I was in the process of opening a brick and mortar Bitcoin biz. After seeing the price of Bitcoin get hijacked by the owners of Gox, whoever they are at this point, I no longer have faith in the honesty of the price of bitcoins as set by Mtgox, so I won't put any more energy into their rigged carnival game.

I'll hold my coins and see where they are in a few months. If Gox is still in the picture, the game is still rigged.

charleshoskinson

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Quote

A mature and intelligent man would be able to elevate himself over personal emotions, see the issues at hand and give an appropriate response. Failing to do so can only negatively impact Vess' reputation. Even chiming in to say: "Hi, thanks for your concerns, I know about the thread - and please let me get some time to read it through, and I will give you some reply in due time would be better than not responding at all.

The questions you have asked are valid. I have asked valid questions. Many in this community has and will continue to do. We never get a response other than we are trolls or conspiracy theorists.

I'm thinking we really should consider a fork.

Herodes

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Quote from: tvbcof on May 01, 2013, 12:45:26 PM

The path of least resistance after being delivered an ass-whoopin' is to retire to some cloistered environ to lick one's wounds and draw comfort by commiserating with one's friends about the 'cesspool' nature of this forum.

A mature and intelligent man would be able to elevate himself over personal emotions, see the issues at hand and give an appropriate response. Failing to do so can only negatively impact Vess' reputation. Even chiming in to say: "Hi, thanks for your concerns, I know about the thread - and please let me get some time to read it through, and I will give you some reply in due time would be better than not responding at all.

A picture comes to mind:

tvbcof

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Quote from: Herodes on May 01, 2013, 12:37:54 PM

Seems like some others think I've got some sound input as well, apart from Vess.

Quote

Last Active: April 30, 2013, 08:07:19 PM

This means he's received my PM, but he's declined to make any comment. Seems like he don't care to me. As for the reasons, it's up to anyone to speculate.. If he took the community seriously, he should've given some input imo.

The path of least resistance after being delivered an ass-whoopin' is to retire to some cloistered environ to lick one's wounds and draw comfort by commiserating with one's friends about the 'cesspool' nature of this forum.

Herodes

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Herodes +1000

Seems like some others think I've got some sound input as well, apart from Vess.

Quote

Last Active: April 30, 2013, 08:07:19 PM

This means he's received my PM, but he's declined to make any comment. Seems like he don't care to me. As for the reasons, it's up to anyone to speculate.. If he took the community seriously, he should've given some input imo.

tvbcof

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Quote from: Herodes on April 30, 2013, 01:59:17 PM

... why should we trust only a small group to always do the right things ?

It's a personal judgement call, and 'the right thing' means different things to different people.

I'm not a particularly trusting person (which is part of why Bitcoin appeals to me) so I value 'transparency' very highly. If the BCF does not, this cannot help but detract from the value I see in that body. I have less inclinations than ever to 'buy in' in order to achieve visibility into that organization and never had much in the first place. Outwardly it appears that their interests and certain of mine (specifically, 'getting rich') are aligned and it would cost me more than it is worth to validate that.

I would expect most people to put their full faith and trust in the BCF absent a very obvious calamity. This is the way the human brain tends to be wired.

Herodes

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Quote from: tvbcof on April 30, 2013, 01:48:09 PM

Quote from: Herodes on April 30, 2013, 01:23:54 PM

...

So I guess that's how it works, the Bitcoin Foundation speak with GAO, who then again relays information in an official manner to Congress ?

But still, I'm sure a lot of people are curious as to what the talks was about,and what the Bitcoin Foundation aim to achieve.

It is a practical matter of fact that 'transparency' is often at odds with 'getting things done.' That was the stated rational for not inviting lesser members of the Bitcoin Foundation to certain meetings, or even informing them that such meetings were scheduled.

It is an unfortunate matter of fact that the above reality leaves 'things' as an undefined term subject to much speculation. Ultimately the Bitcoin Foundation will have to balance out the pro's and con's of 'transparency' as they see fit.

Opening up their forums or asking for transcripts, that I assume exists anyway, shouldn't be too much to ask ? Transparency need not be down to the last details of what they're up to, neither need it be non-existant. Some golden middle-way should be possible. I'm aware that too much bureaucracy hinders progress, but again - why should we trust only a small group to always do the right things ?

tvbcof

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Quote from: Herodes on April 30, 2013, 01:23:54 PM

...

So I guess that's how it works, the Bitcoin Foundation speak with GAO, who then again relays information in an official manner to Congress ?

But still, I'm sure a lot of people are curious as to what the talks was about,and what the Bitcoin Foundation aim to achieve.

It is a practical matter of fact that 'transparency' is often at odds with 'getting things done.' That was the stated rational for not inviting lesser members of the Bitcoin Foundation to certain meetings, or even informing them that such meetings were scheduled.

It is an unfortunate matter of fact that the above reality leaves 'things' as an undefined term subject to much speculation. Ultimately the Bitcoin Foundation will have to balance out the pro's and con's of 'transparency' as they see fit.

Herodes

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Quote from: charleshoskinson on April 30, 2013, 01:09:09 PM

Those are very solid questions. If we really want to be nice, then why don't we just create a fund to pay Gavin directly? Then this problem goes away entirely.

To be a bit concrete:

Source: https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=99

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We had a first meeting with the United States’ Government Accountability Office to talk to them about how Bitcoin works. Our brief, productive meeting was a high-level conversation about how Bitcoin fits into the emerging virtual currency space.

The USGAO site:
http://www.gao.gov/about/index.html

Quote

The U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) is an independent, nonpartisan agency that works for Congress. Often called the "congressional watchdog," GAO investigates how the federal government spends taxpayer dollars.

It would be interesting to get more information about that meeting, even a transcript, and to get to know what the purpose of that meeting was. It doesn't strike me as very obvious that this is the right organization to talk to in regards to Bitcoin issues? But I might be wrong.

Quote

Our Mission is to support the Congress in meeting its constitutional responsibilities and to help improve the performance and ensure the accountability of the federal government for the benefit of the American people. We provide Congress with timely information that is objective, fact-based, nonpartisan, nonideological, fair, and balanced.

So I guess that's how it works, the Bitcoin Foundation speak with GAO, who then again relays information in an official manner to Congress ?

But still, I'm sure a lot of people are curious as to what the talks was about,and what the Bitcoin Foundation aim to achieve.

charleshoskinson

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Those are very solid questions. If we really want to be nice, then why don't we just create a fund to pay Gavin directly? Then this problem goes away entirely.

Herodes

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Quote from: charleshoskinson on April 30, 2013, 12:38:42 PM

Quote

What have you anonymous cowards been doing besides spouting off about things you know NOTHING about?

When Gavin is saying that about us, I suspect their feelings are really clear.

I rather think it was a reaction to Gavin feeling the criticism was unjust, and that him and Vessens have done a whole lot more for Bitcoin than most others. Thus he felt the criticism was unjust and his blood started to boil, and as just being a human, and maybe being in a bad mood from a prolonged coding-session, he 'lost it'. I don't think he should brush our input off as trolling though. And I think a lot of people are watching what he says, so his words has more weight than those of many others. For instance, it's very interesting which direction the project is going. Will Gavin have the balls to stand up against pressure if there are demands (from those giving him a paycheck) that deviates from Satoshi's orginal intentions ? Will he then simply quit the Foundation, and keep working on Bitcoin, or will he cave in to the pressure ? And if he does, what do we do ?

charleshoskinson

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Quote

What have you anonymous cowards been doing besides spouting off about things you know NOTHING about?

When Gavin is saying that about us, I suspect their feelings are really clear.

Topic: Should Peter Vessenes resign as the Executive Director for Bitcoin Foundation ? - page 3. (Read 24387 times)