Topic: Socialism is so bad that it allows poor people to live. Horrible true story - page 5. (Read 10346 times)

Capitalism raises the standard of living for everyone involved. Socialism does the opposite.

In Venezuela, people are starving, even though their income has gone way up in nominal terms (there has been years of hyperinflation). People cannot access other basic necessities such as medical care and electricity either.

In the United States, there is a raising wealth gap, but life expediency is going up. Most health problems revolve around people consuming too much food, but there is still adequate access to healthcare. There are some problems with the education system, but this is mostly due to democratic policies such as preventing charter schools in favor of continuing to receive political donations from teachers unions. The US education system is still producing an increasing number of college graduates per capita.   

If you want to compare socialism to capitalism;  show the whole picture... not the small details leaving out the rest of the story as you accuse;  and maybe I will consider walking down the road to discuss it with you....
In capitalist societies, privilege is earned.  Our rights aren't privilege....  Don't mistake that.

To say that socialism a better quality of life is quite subjective on the level of acceptance/quality of life I expect;  not to mention the great numbers of historical shortfalls socialism has shown us over the years.   It's amazing how people that aren't given [what I consider to be] inalienable basic human rights; are quick to cite privilege against capitalism when they are coming from a heavily biased socialist sentiment.  Socialist policies are 100% privilege to the people whom they apply to.... using a socialist type of irrational thought process.


All I can say, is I have experienced both systems in my life.   I have also seen the good and bad parts of both systems first hand around the world.     Medically, and systemically they have taught me some important things in life.

Historically, capitalist societies flourish better, and lead to more opportunity to pursue ones own happiness in life;  not someone else's.  Who are you to tell someone how to live their life?  How is your opinion any better or greater than anyone else's?

Trust me.  I have plenty of facts.    

The main issue is people not being receptive to those facts on both sides, and accepting that both people are correct, and incorrect at the same time.    

Learn to live with it; don't force yourself on others.  That's how socialism could actually work.... but then it wouldn't be socialism; not having a standardized tiered set of control and "parameters" for people to conform to as to complete [person/entity]'s objective.

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661

Everytime i've posted actual references, you've refused to read it and continued on with mythological talking points but maybe if I just keep reposting it over and over this time will be the time you read it.  
https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661

Also, all of my favorite porn stars have natural tits.

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661

I guess it is just a coincidence every time Socialism and Communism are tried it results in more poor starving people while the wealthy elite remain untouched. Your ideas are not revolutionary. Communism is to real revolution as porn stars are to having real titties. They might look and feel the same at first, but after a while they get leaky, age, and become counterproductive toward their intended purpose and require blood to be drawn in order to remove them.

No one denies the fact that capitalism is better for the wealthy.  Its far better and thats not even debatable.  Advocates of socialism are simply considering the quality of life of the typical person as opposed to just those in situations of privilege.  

Once you have the facts (and not just some parroted talking points), neither are debatable.  Perspective and morals are the only things that matter in determining preference.

My only comment:

Socialism forces the individual to be a slave to someone else's desires and perspectives.  There are benefits, and drawbacks.


I appreciate my ability to work hard and be able to achieve great things equal to my effort.

Taking away the ability to do better/more than the person next to you;  eats away at the heart of invention and innovation.




Each system has its flaws.   I prefer the capitalist system; it mainly only falls apart if what backs the 'money' becomes insolvent/worthless.

imagine 10 people owned 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the earths wealth;  that's a fucked up but statistically possible scenario right?   The real question is;  would that wealth be worth the same in that distribution?

But i'm not here to debate;  just give a perspective and some hard real information and insight to the logic behind it.

Sorry about the hundreds of millions of bodies, our bad. We will do it correctly this time, pinky promise!

Exactly. That's the argument that these socialists use time and time again. They continue to say how it's 'not true socialism' and 'it's not true communism' and so on. They're going to lie to themselves so much, that at a certain point even THEY believe their bullshit.

I don't understand how someone can live life like that, but that's life.

In our world inequalities exist at their best. Having said that, socialism cannot work and make a peaceful world. There are some good points in this political approach but it cannot be adopted. Maybe a mix of capitalism and socialism can solve our problems easier than we have ever thought.

In capitalism health care has quality and is available for everyone as long as the rich pay their taxes. Although, especially in the last decade, they found many ways to avoid taxes (like fake donations) creating implications for the quality of health care system as well as the whole public sector as well.
So the top of the pyramid keeps multiplying their wealth while the common folks, every working person, every employee can't possibly hide their income and is obligated to pay. This is the system and it also has even worse implementations depending on which country you live and how the people reacted. It is a fact that rich people get better health care as well as having access to better education, living standards and job prospects. It is also a fact that socialism has all these problems solved from day one. What they kept telling my people in my country was that this is the system we have and it works. They kept saying it until it stopped working. I have studied economics and understand both systems. There are errors in both, but the errors of globalized capitalism under the pretext of "freedom" is the worst possible system for any society and what it is promising is only a dystopian future.

There's no easy solution to this but considering even doctors and accountants in Cuba are side hustling as taxi drivers for tourists to make ends meet, what's clear is government is hardly efficient, whether it's capitalist or socialist. It's not their money they're spending.

I'm no economist but probably someone can find a good way to provide incentives or at least discourage bad behavior. We don't even have universal healthcare where I live but the government does provide subsidies for certain conditions and years ago an eye clinic was shutdown for doing unnecessary operations on the elderly. These people wouldn't have been able to afford these surgeries anyway but since the government is footing the bill... Of course others don't go that far but they do make you come back more often than necessary since they get paid each time anyway. Heard this is also the reason for increasing number of C-Section surgeries in the US.


If it fails, it must be not true Socialism but something else.

socialism has to be implemented correct.

With this in mind, how could I ensure this doctor isn't just doing this to save some time and money? Would I be able to go see another doctor shortly, or would it take me another 2 months to get another appointment? I feel like in some ways, with these restrictions on time it's going to make regular people just say 'fuck it' and accept the first doctor's recommendation as correct.

I'm not saying that all doctors are horrible people or something along those lines, I just think that there is a conflict of interest in doctors being paid by the government in which they can be forced to be very very conservative in the tests that they administer -- as they could be bullied into doing less instead of more.

You can google Finnish healthcare regulations if you really are interested, but i think you are not.
I'll answer to these and after these you might want to google rest by yourself.
Doctors determine if you need a Cat scan or MRI, not you. If you need 2nd opinion you are entilted to it. And you still aren't satified you can always go to the private sector if you can afford it.

The only reason that allows some western countries to provide some socialistic policy is that everything is based on a capitalistic economy. And such policy is drowning those countries to shit, especially France.

In 20 century we had a long story of socialistic experiments that took lives of millions of people around the world and still left socialistic countries in poverty.
Maybe socialism let those poor people live in the afterlife, duno.

I strongly disagree with your conclusions, but I believe you are fair to make that argument.

I very strongly believe in personal responsibility, for the most part, in a capitalist society, a person's situation is the result of their own actions. Over time, a person has choices they can make with regards to their job, their earnings and what they spend their money on. If someone buys luxuries they cannot afford, and later is unable to pay for certain items they need, this is their own fault. There are many social programs, both government funded welfare and private charities that provide a safety net to those in need and those in crisis.

In the winter, I will sometimes read about some number of homeless people and some people without heat dying due to severe cold in Northern CA and in Washington state, and I have every reason to believe this happens on the east coast as well. This is obviously very unfortunate, but the percentage of deaths is very low. I found an article that claims ~1300 people die from cold exposure every year in the US, and I don't believe all of these are the result of being poor. I also found a quora article about starvation in the US, and one of the answers cites a website that claims 0.64 people per 100,000 die every year from starvation.  

An "expert" can give their opinion, but they have no authority to direct another person how to live their life. The decision to get treated or not get treated, and the exact treatment is ultimately the choice of the patient.

Let me tell a secret: free healthcare system doesn't work.





Sadly, healthcare is an expensive service, who promises it for free is lying to people.
We need to be realistic and look for real solutions to solve issues. Demagogy like offering free stuff to the poors doesn't help us fixing any problems.

By experts you mean employees of the government? So what you are saying is under socialism you don't choose what kind of health care you get, the government does? Sounds wonderful. Tell me, did you eat lots of paint chips as a kid?

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.76.6.661
Socialism doesn't work 7% of the time.

Wanting a scan is not how healthcare works.  The experts determine what is needed and get a 2nd opinion if they aren't sure and only recommend what is needed.

I SEE! Now every death due to starvation is now a result of Capitalism! Maybe you can expand that net even further and blame Capitalism for the fact that we are not yet immortal. It is too bad we didn't discover how evil Capitalism was back in the days that humans were hunter gatherers, it could have saved so many lives!