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Topic: Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism? - page 42. (Read 30782 times)

sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 250
Capitalism can never solve the problem of poverty, it is in fact going to exaggerate it.. In this system it is the capitalist class which keeps growing as it makes profit at the expense of the working class.. It is actually the workers who create wealth and the masters take away a lion's share..

Capitalism create more wealth than planned economy because the market always makes better decicions than political leaders. Survival of the fittest in work means only the most efficient at creating wealth survives. Without too many rules the wealth will also be better distributed as successful companies have to outbid each others when hiring workers on all levels. Governments are always corrupt, the only variation is to what degree. Power corrupts as we all know. Also companies in a planned ekonionomy are more corrupts because they have more ways to be corrupt, i.e. making the governments apply rules to their competitors that don't apply to themselves etc. There's really not that many ways to be corrupt in a free market with many players. Not sure what you mean when you say the workers create wealth? Capitalism means everybody get compensated according to the wealth they create. If not, the worker will go to a competitor that recognices that
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
What if we all stopped comparing our wealth with others. And only look at how much someone else has to check if that person has enough. And instead of demanding something back for your services, why not share your skills and knowledge with those who need your skills and knowledge? If we humans would care less about ourselves and more about our surrounding, it would solve 99.99% of our problems.

There is a huge difference between human kindness and government mandated redistribution. One makes a better world while the latter is slavery no matter what clever word they use to describe it. 
Government mandated redistribution is done for the greater good and usually with only minor inconvenience. Human kindness only exists in children. Do you expect children to build roads? Are you a child slaver?
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
What if we all stopped comparing our wealth with others. And only look at how much someone else has to check if that person has enough. And instead of demanding something back for your services, why not share your skills and knowledge with those who need your skills and knowledge? If we humans would care less about ourselves and more about our surrounding, it would solve 99.99% of our problems.

There is a huge difference between human kindness and government mandated redistribution. One makes a better world while the latter is slavery no matter what clever word they use to describe it. 
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
What if we all stopped comparing our wealth with others. And only look at how much someone else has to check if that person has enough. And instead of demanding something back for your services, why not share your skills and knowledge with those who need your skills and knowledge? If we humans would care less about ourselves and more about our surrounding, it would solve 99.99% of our problems.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1278
What still baffles me is that although many Governments has been giving away welfare aids to people below a certain income level, this does not help solve poverty at all.
Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life. I think this is a gross misallocation of resources which could have been put to better use to create jobs instead of making poor people dependent.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this solution is only beneficial in the short run so why is it still being done?
In Denmark less than half the population works. Half their income is taken from them before it even hits their bank accounts and redistributed to those who do not work. It's even worse than that since government employed get their saleries from taxes, and that sector is ever-growing.

Think how it would be if there were no welfare checks. Taxes could be low, maybe 15% instead of 50, wages would go down while actual buying power would go up due to less taxation. Everyone who works would be wealthier, and more people would work out of necessity so the country would be more productive. The only downside is that people who can't or won't work would be worse off, but there is no perfect system. It's really a matter of, do we want a functioning country where the majority benefits or do we want 0% of the population to live in the street?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
Neither.

Probably a regulated Capitalism with progressive tax to avoid exaggeration of inequality
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001
getmonero.org
Well, I think neither of capitalism or socialism can be ultimate solution to poverty.. Firstly, we need to expel the fact that poverty can be eradicated.. I guess poverty can never be removed..
People say that Capitalism emphasis on superiority, and thus creates inequality in the society.. True but then it is also inspires one to improve..
Which are today's greatest nations? US, China, France, England, Rome, Greece, and the list goes on and on.. And then these are not only the greatest nations, but they also have the wealthiest population also.. Is there anything common to them? Simply, Capitalism !!

What the hell did i just read?! Greece is among greatest nations right now? Capitalism is bringing fascism in Greece right now in levels noone saw for like 70 years. People are working for 480 euro while having serious university degrees and know 2 foreign languages while their benefits and health system is getting chooped by the day. (Did you know that many work without pay just to get experience) But of course in Europe the media celebrate  the progress with 27% unemployment and doubling suicide rates.

Meanwhile the free market in greece gives state assets to billionaires for less than peanuts...

Noone is inspired to improve. 10% of Greeks have been inspired to go stab minorities, pick abortions over births, suicide, start doing drugs and leave the country. If this is what you mean improvement then okay. Ah and its not going to be something temporal. There are no plans for fixing this for the next 10 year at least...

donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.
Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.
Are you saying that all the 108.6 million people that  received  welfare in 2013 are now millionaire?No!Probably 1% from that number become millionaire ,just like the people you know,the rest just wait every month the money from government to come .
No. Are you saying that all 108.6 million people that received welfare in 2013 are nothing but scammers?
No,of course they aren't all scammers. Welfare fraud is real and it  happens in every country. According to the U.S. Department of Labor statistics website, based on the 2012 IPIA three-Year average data report, fraud was prevalent in 2.67% of cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_fraud
Interesting.
legendary
Activity: 1455
Merit: 1033
Nothing like healthy scepticism and hard evidence
Government can get out of the way ... Simple really.
That's what the data supports when countries are ranked according to their economic freedom index. It turns out that high economic freedom correlates with high rates of literacy, high education, low infant mortality, longer life expectancy, better access to clean water and sanitation, lower rates of HIV infection, a cleaner environment.

Details here:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/09/how-economic-freedom-promotes-better-health-care-education-and-environmental-quality

I think he wasn't talking about political freedom, but a kind of economic freedom similar to the liberal XIX century (Laissez-faire times). I doubt that kind of freedom would be helpful for social indicators. In many countries, it's the state that is responsible for those services.

Actually, Cuba is clearly lacking on economic and political freedom and for decades had the better ratings in Latin American on those issues.

Even today, the highest levels of political freedom are typical of developed economies, so that might explain better those results.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
I don't think it's necessarily an or question. Theoretically you can have capitalism with socialist aspects where it makes sense and improved the quality of life for the population. It's not easy for a government to effectively implement programs that run well and are not wasteful but really it should be possible if a society was willing to put it's best minds to solving these problems.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.
Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.
Are you saying that all the 108.6 million people that  received  welfare in 2013 are now millionaire?No!Probably 1% from that number become millionaire ,just like the people you know,the rest just wait every month the money from government to come .
No. Are you saying that all 108.6 million people that received welfare in 2013 are nothing but scammers?
No,of course they aren't all scammers. Welfare fraud is real and it  happens in every country. According to the U.S. Department of Labor statistics website, based on the 2012 IPIA three-Year average data report, fraud was prevalent in 2.67% of cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_fraud
legendary
Activity: 1455
Merit: 1033
Nothing like healthy scepticism and hard evidence
If by socialism we are thinking on the nationalization of economic means of production and on the centralized planing of the economy, that didn't work well in the soviet block of countries or in china, or, it seems, anywhere else.

An economy is too complex to be central planed and people have less incentive when they are managing other people's goods/nationalized corporations.

It seems we have no alternative but a regulated capitalism with social support for the poor.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Well, I think neither of capitalism or socialism can be ultimate solution to poverty.. Firstly, we need to expel the fact that poverty can be eradicated.. I guess poverty can never be removed..
People say that Capitalism emphasis on superiority, and thus creates inequality in the society.. True but then it is also inspires one to improve..
Which are today's greatest nations? US, China, France, England, Rome, Greece, and the list goes on and on.. And then these are not only the greatest nations, but they also have the wealthiest population also.. Is there anything common to them? Simply, Capitalism !!
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.
Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.
Are you saying that all the 108.6 million people that  received  welfare in 2013 are now millionaire?No!Probably 1% from that number become millionaire ,just like the people you know,the rest just wait every month the money from government to come .
No. Are you saying that all 108.6 million people that received welfare in 2013 are nothing but scammers?
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.
Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.
Are you saying that all the 108.6 million people that  received  welfare in 2013 are now millionaire?No!Probably 1% from that number become millionaire ,just like the people you know,the rest just wait every month the money from government to come .
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Capitalism can never solve the problem of poverty, it is in fact going to exaggerate it.. In this system it is the capitalist class which keeps growing as it makes profit at the expense of the working class.. It is actually the workers who create wealth and the masters take away a lion's share..
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.
Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Intelligence solves problems. Politics makes problems. Try a government without politics and you will have an intelligent government that solves problems.
Also the corrupt politicians and the greedy ones are intelligent.........
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
What still baffles me is that although many Governments has been giving away welfare aids to people below a certain income level, this does not help solve poverty at all.
Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life. I think this is a gross misallocation of resources which could have been put to better use to create jobs instead of making poor people dependent.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this solution is only beneficial in the short run so why is it still being done?
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