solution to rubber hose attacks | Bitcointalksearch.org

ShakyhandsBTCer

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It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin

Quote from: Beliathon on June 21, 2014, 05:49:21 PM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 21, 2014, 04:19:23 PM

Quote from: franky1 on June 20, 2014, 02:24:23 PM

in all possible solutions.. even moving funds during being held hostage, multisig, safety deposit boxes etc.

the guy is still in your house and knows you still have control of your funds. he knows you would rather give him the funds .. eventually .. rather then send them to an address with no known privkey (losing control yourself knowing you will never get them back ever).

so he will hammer you until he gets the multisig, privkey, safety deposit key, privkey where funds were diverted to.

i guess the cartoon did no explain that enough

This is exactly true. If you are in physical danger there is no reason to try to protect you money/bitcoin.

Money can be replaced, your life cannot.

Prove it. How do you know death is not simply a reset button where you get to start over?

You don't know, and neither do I. I find your fear of death to be irrational, especially in light of the known suffering of existence.

Do you know anyone who got to "start over" when they died?

If if I were to accept your argument that is would be a possibility, if you really started over then your bitcoin would be lost regardless.

NotAtOld

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Quote from: CoolBliss on June 21, 2014, 01:57:09 PM

One could automate this with a program to verify one's location and provide a co-signature. It's also possible that someone could integrate this into web wallets to provide more secure "banking" options.

The advantages of a generic physical storage system is the holder cannot see the amount in question, and will not even know if the medium (paper, stone engraving, snapshot with special encoding) contains valuable data, nor the format of the data (half a brain wallet passkey, picture files containing hidden encrypted data, or simply a clue for relatives to decrypt on the event of your death).

NotAtOld

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Quote from: CoolBliss on June 21, 2014, 01:55:31 PM

Multi-sig custody where >1 signature is required to transfer XBT. Kinda like travelers checks that required two signatures to spend (remember those)?

Close. That's probably good for up to 10k... maybe $100k. But when the stakes get higher, the the chances of collution become more likely. Especially when the secondary signer can see the amount in question.

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: franky1 on June 21, 2014, 06:04:17 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on June 21, 2014, 05:52:54 PM

You may get to start over but you can't take your bitcoins with you.

jumping to the other side of the opinion fence....

if you can remember your previous life, after being re-incarnated.. technically you may remember a brainwallet! Grin

It's Possible.

I knew one spiritual teacher who claims to have been a pirate in a past life and remembers location of buried treasure.

KonstantinosM

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Life is a taxable event

I agree with the idea with heavy modification.

A lying gui with secret functionality is my takeaway from this.

Press the secret button, enter password and then the qt starts lying.

Hopefully you won't be killed just for money in the process.

franky1

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on June 21, 2014, 05:52:54 PM

You may get to start over but you can't take your bitcoins with you.

jumping to the other side of the opinion fence....

if you can remember your previous life, after being re-incarnated.. technically you may remember a brainwallet! Grin

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: Beliathon on June 21, 2014, 05:49:21 PM

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 21, 2014, 04:19:23 PM

Quote from: franky1 on June 20, 2014, 02:24:23 PM

in all possible solutions.. even moving funds during being held hostage, multisig, safety deposit boxes etc.

the guy is still in your house and knows you still have control of your funds. he knows you would rather give him the funds .. eventually .. rather then send them to an address with no known privkey (losing control yourself knowing you will never get them back ever).

so he will hammer you until he gets the multisig, privkey, safety deposit key, privkey where funds were diverted to.

i guess the cartoon did no explain that enough

This is exactly true. If you are in physical danger there is no reason to try to protect you money/bitcoin.

Money can be replaced, your life cannot.

Prove it. How do you know death is not simply a reset button where you get to start over?

You don't know, and neither do I. I find your fear of death to be irrational, especially in light of the known suffering of existence.

You may get to start over but you can't take your bitcoins with you.

Beliathon

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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 21, 2014, 04:19:23 PM

Quote from: franky1 on June 20, 2014, 02:24:23 PM

in all possible solutions.. even moving funds during being held hostage, multisig, safety deposit boxes etc.

the guy is still in your house and knows you still have control of your funds. he knows you would rather give him the funds .. eventually .. rather then send them to an address with no known privkey (losing control yourself knowing you will never get them back ever).

so he will hammer you until he gets the multisig, privkey, safety deposit key, privkey where funds were diverted to.

i guess the cartoon did no explain that enough

This is exactly true. If you are in physical danger there is no reason to try to protect you money/bitcoin.

Money can be replaced, your life cannot.

Prove it. How do you know death is not simply a reset button where you get to start over?

You don't know, and neither do I. I find your fear of death to be irrational, especially in light of the known suffering of existence.

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: ShakyhandsBTCer on June 21, 2014, 04:19:23 PM

This is exactly true. If you are in physical danger there is no reason to try to protect you money/bitcoin.

Money can be replaced, your life cannot.

I have to disagree, at least partially.

People "refuse to negotiate with terrorists" for a reason.
And that reason, is that if everyone just gave in, terrorism
would run rampant. By setting a precedent of refusal,
the motivation to try to steal is diminished and everyone
is safer.

Now, if someone demands my (fiat) wallet and
wields a weapon, i'll hand it over.

But I will not turn over all my cold storage to terrorists,
even if they threaten my family.

ShakyhandsBTCer

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It's Money 2.0| It’s gold for nerds | It's Bitcoin

Quote from: franky1 on June 20, 2014, 02:24:23 PM

in all possible solutions.. even moving funds during being held hostage, multisig, safety deposit boxes etc.

the guy is still in your house and knows you still have control of your funds. he knows you would rather give him the funds .. eventually .. rather then send them to an address with no known privkey (losing control yourself knowing you will never get them back ever).

so he will hammer you until he gets the multisig, privkey, safety deposit key, privkey where funds were diverted to.

i guess the cartoon did no explain that enough

This is exactly true. If you are in physical danger there is no reason to try to protect you money/bitcoin.

Money can be replaced, your life cannot.

If you can sufficiently trade the money then you can use the police to catch the people who would steal from you.

I still think this makes it much more clear!

Quote from: cozk on June 20, 2014, 02:22:08 PM

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: CoolBliss on June 21, 2014, 01:57:09 PM

One could automate this with a program to verify one's location and provide a co-signature. It's also possible that someone could integrate this into web wallets to provide more secure "banking" options.

I like this idea. Although proof of location can be spoofed fairly easily. I think there discussions a out proof of location using ping response latency but sounds unreliable.

CoolBliss

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One could automate this with a program to verify one's location and provide a co-signature. It's also possible that someone could integrate this into web wallets to provide more secure "banking" options.

CoolBliss

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Multi-sig custody where >1 signature is required to transfer XBT. Kinda like travelers checks that required two signatures to spend (remember those)?

CoinHoarder

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In Cryptocoins I Trust

Why not just build a panic room? Grin

freedombit

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on June 19, 2014, 09:48:42 PM

So, you've got all your precious Bitcoins locked up
in cold storage... you've take all technical procautions...

but then a gunman breaks into your house and says
he's gonna shoot you in the face unless you turn
over your private keys.

You could try to thwart this by preparing a decoy wallet
or two, but do you trust yourself not to buckle under
the pressure?

My solution:

You have a transaction already loaded which sends most
of your cold storage funds off to another secret wallet
which you have the keys to in a safe deposit box.

When the gunman breaks in, you hit a button, and
boom, the transaction is broadcast, you no longer
have your coins there.

Or, if you are caught off guard, you say, sure you
can have my coins, let me login... you "login"
or access a secret URL, and it whisks away
your coins to saftey while giving a decoy address...
If under pressure later, you can reveal the other
address, but now its too late, the coins are gone.

thoughts?

Here's the deal. All these Fortune 500 guys walk around without any problems whatsoever. Sure, they may use security, or not, but it's all relative to the risk / threat. Why aren't people beating them with rubber hoses every day?

How ever, I can see a great use. Can you build an app that will quickly "vanish" my Nike's and leave me standing in my white socks? It would be great to avoid being shot dead.

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

I'm not saying anyone should destroy funds.

You instantly send them from brain wallet to safe deposit box
Where it's arguably harder to steal or coerce them.

Not that complicated of a concept.

franky1

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on June 20, 2014, 04:20:56 PM

Quote from: franky1 on June 20, 2014, 02:24:23 PM

in all possible solutions.. even moving funds during being held hostage, multisig, safety deposit boxes etc.

the guy is still in your house and knows you still have control of your funds. he knows you would rather give him the funds .. eventually .. rather then send them to an address with no known privkey (losing control yourself knowing you will never get them back ever).

so he will hammer you until he gets the multisig, privkey, safety deposit key, privkey where funds were diverted to.

i guess the cartoon did no explain that enough

He can't get into the deposit box.
Maybe your bank just let's anyone waltz into the vault. Mine doesn't.

And no , I would rather destroy the funds than let the thief have them.

destroy the funds for ever?? then if the intruder was caught. there is no evidence that he ever took anything, and your out of pocket.
or...OR
give him the funds and if caught there is proof he took something, meaning he is not released, and you have a chance of getting funds back.

zero chance, 100% loss= no.. small chance, small chance of return=yes

imagine it this way you have a stack of bank notes on a table. you hear the police sirens coming. do you burn the bank notes so the thief cant get them. or do you let them have them, then try to do something to delay him running off and hope the cops get him, so you can get your money back..

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: franky1 on June 20, 2014, 02:24:23 PM

in all possible solutions.. even moving funds during being held hostage, multisig, safety deposit boxes etc.

the guy is still in your house and knows you still have control of your funds. he knows you would rather give him the funds .. eventually .. rather then send them to an address with no known privkey (losing control yourself knowing you will never get them back ever).

so he will hammer you until he gets the multisig, privkey, safety deposit key, privkey where funds were diverted to.

i guess the cartoon did no explain that enough

He can't get into the deposit box.
Maybe your bank just let's anyone waltz into the vault. Mine doesn't.

And no , I would rather destroy the funds than let the thief have them.

knightcoin

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Quote from: cozk on June 20, 2014, 02:22:08 PM

lol

franky1

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in all possible solutions.. even moving funds during being held hostage, multisig, safety deposit boxes etc.

the guy is still in your house and knows you still have control of your funds. he knows you would rather give him the funds .. eventually .. rather then send them to an address with no known privkey (losing control yourself knowing you will never get them back ever).

so he will hammer you until he gets the multisig, privkey, safety deposit key, privkey where funds were diverted to.

i guess the cartoon did no explain that enough

Topic: solution to rubber hose attacks (Read 2879 times)